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    (Original post by Rayel)
    Little mention of the Liberal Democrats here.

    My humble knowledge of politics goes as far as *they're not as evil as the other two*

    What do you think? If not Labour then Liberal?
    Certainly, I think many don't vote for them because the two party system has been drilled into people's minds.
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    (Original post by Drew.)
    Certainly, I think many don't vote for them because the two party system has been drilled into people's minds.
    Liberal who?
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    (Original post by Al_Funcoot)
    "If a man is 20 and isn't a liberal, he has no heart. If a man is 40 and isn't a conservative, he has no brain" - Sir Winston Churchill
    :yep: Exactly. And 'If a man is any age and votes for Labour, he has no brain.'
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    (Original post by jrhartley)
    Sounds like the Zimbabwe / failed African state argument - its was the last lot's fault.

    Regrettably, the true legacy of Labour has yet to hit us. You can't spunk that much cash up the wall in the neo-Liberal way 'prudent' Gordon did (10 x BTL mortgages at 4% interest - promoting huge numbers of sheriff fatman landlords, driving more people into poverty). Gordon's passive adherence following on from Blair's pandering to the City has created more inequality than the most radical of right-wing Governments could have wilfully done, unfortunately. The legacy of QE will cripple the UK for many years to come.

    I wish I could be that prudent. It comes down to classic Labour manta, which has historically been focused around notions of rights without responsibilities.

    'Incapability Brown' would be a more apt title, I think.
    I like how all the issues you've mentioned were out of Browns control since he made the BoE independent. Or are you questioning that decision? I guess with QE that Darling had to sign it off, but the change of emphasis makes it difficult for him to have said no.
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    (Original post by Barden)
    Every government eventually makes a mess though, this is why we swing between labour and conservative...
    +1
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    Well vote for a party other than labour opr the tories- Lib Dems!

    If you bring the tories back into power, maggie thatcher will be reborn and start sneaking into our houses and stealing our milk ¬¬
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    (Original post by Potally_Tissed)
    selling all the gold cheap
    the police state
    health and safety culture
    So at the time you were against the sale of the negatively yielding asset which had dropped in value (even before inflation) 5 fold since the 70s? With hindsight what was the opportunity cost of selling gold at that time and how does that compare to the 23bn sale of the 3G licences?

    How many times have you been stopped by the police in the last year?

    You mean the idiocy of local councils?
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    (Original post by Quady)
    So at the time you were against the sale of the negatively yielding asset which had dropped in value (even before inflation) 5 fold since the 70s? With hindsight what was the opportunity cost of selling gold at that time and how does that compare to the 23bn sale of the 3G licences?

    How many times have you been stopped by the police in the last year?

    You mean the idiocy of local councils?

    this


    and most of these local councils are now tory are they not? lol
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    (Original post by Barden)
    and most of these local councils are now tory are they not? lol
    I was trying not to say that, particularly since I think examples of idiocy can be found in councils of all colours.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    So at the time you were against the sale of the negatively yielding asset which had dropped in value (even before inflation) 5 fold since the 70s? With hindsight what was the opportunity cost of selling gold at that time and how does that compare to the 23bn sale of the 3G licences?
    Had the gold been sold in 2009, the country would have made around 14bn instead of 4bn. That's the beauty of hindsight I know, but that's spectacularly bad timing from the man whos job was to know better.


    How many times have you been stopped by the police in the last year?
    Me personally, none. But then I've not yet tried to exercise my right to protest (which no longer applies within a mile of parliament).


    You mean the idiocy of local councils?
    Yeah I'm sure the governments 'Health and Safety Executive' is nothing to do with it. :P



    And as I've said before, I really don't think the Conservatives are any better, I'm just fed up with Labour now.
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    (Original post by Potally_Tissed)
    Had the gold been sold in 2009, the country would have made around 14bn instead of 4bn. That's the beauty of hindsight I know, but that's spectacularly bad timing from the man whos job was to know better.




    Me personally, none. But then I've not yet tried to exercise my right to protest (which no longer applies within a mile of parliament).




    Yeah I'm sure the governments 'Health and Safety Executive' is nothing to do with it. :P



    And as I've said before, I really don't think the Conservatives are any better, I'm just fed up with Labour now.
    So 10bn vs 23bn? (Did you take into account the strengthening of the Euro and the interest accrued from it? If not thats another couple of billion so 8bn vs 23bn). Both of which are nothing compared to QE...

    Thought not.

    The HSE cover large scale hazards such as the construction industry (something we don't seem to have been hindered in doing during the last 10 years, look at London), power stations and large chemical installations. Councils cover low risk stuff such as cemeteries, shops/offices, school trips. So yes, mandatory fire alarms fitted to new houses is the fault of the HSE and steadying up/knocking over graves is idiotic councils.

    And me too (hence my +1 to someone earlier), but those are poor points to try and show how badly they have done. The police one is the most valid, but I suspect most people would agree with the changes post 11/9.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    So 10bn vs 23bn? (Did you take into account the strengthening of the Euro and the interest accrued from it? If not thats another couple of billion so 8bn vs 23bn). Both of which are nothing compared to QE...

    Thought not.

    The HSE cover large scale hazards such as the construction industry (something we don't seem to have been hindered in doing during the last 10 years, look at London), power stations and large chemical installations. Councils cover low risk stuff such as cemeteries, shops/offices, school trips. So yes, mandatory fire alarms fitted to new houses is the fault of the HSE and steadying up/knocking over graves is idiotic councils.

    And me too (hence my +1 to someone earlier), but those are poor points to try and show how badly they have done. The police one is the most valid, but I suspect most people would agree with the changes post 11/9.


    The Iraq war.
    Like I need another reason not to vote Labour. :P
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    I will vote conservative because i believe that most problems wont exist in a country with a healthy family-matrimony based social model, with traditional values. End of.
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    (Original post by Potally_Tissed)



    Yeah I'm sure the governments 'Health and Safety Executive' is nothing to do with it. :P


    actually in many cases, its not the 'health & safety executive banning things, but overzealous adherents to it. for example, H&S actually deemed playing conkers as perfectly fine.....it was a headteacher who first banned it in a school
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    (Original post by pws2501)
    I value the NHS as it is the best health care systems in the world.
    you've not had cause to experience healthcare in france, then? the french medical system and dental provision seriously runs rings around the nhs, both in terms of availability of staff (even as a UK citizen you can generally get an appointment the same day with a doctor in france) and also the quality of their facilities - hospitals and clinics. the nhs = best in the world is one of those things brits like to say having never really experienced healthcare outside of the uk, or by benchmarking against the us, semi-private / insurance backed system.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    I like how all the issues you've mentioned were out of Browns control since he made the BoE independent. Or are you questioning that decision? I guess with QE that Darling had to sign it off, but the change of emphasis makes it difficult for him to have said no.

    What, like out of his control like selling our gold reserves at a quarter of their current value? The splitting of regulation, fsa, boe, treasury provided precisely the conditions for the securitisation issues and reckless lending, plus gordon's central borrowing (pfi, other 'off-balance sheet borrowing' by government) which effectlvely was the chancellor - brown - saying to the nation - don't worry if you can't afford it now - borrow it and pay for it in 20 years time (schools, hospitals, transport).

    that was prudent gordon, i'm afraid, sending a message how its ok to put it all on credit. if you're willing to let him off the hook for that, then i don't really know what virtues people are looking for in their politicians these days. intelligent, he most certainly is not.
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    I will never vote labour; they don’t care about the countryside one bit while Maggie and Major used to listen to 'Farming Today'.

    The Tories brought this country back from the brink in the 80’s; we went from the sick man of Europe to the worlds leading financial power.
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    I think it is quite hilarious though that often you see Labour politicians throw in the 'well it's all the Conservatives fault really'. So they haven't had since 1997 to sort out all these problems the Conservatives appear to have caused.

    Politicians seem to hop in and out between the parties and simply change their ideologies at the drop of a hat. It's just a carousel of useless politicians election after election because we're stuck in a 3 party system where people vote for one of the other 2 when they get fed up of whoever is in power.

    Also, the financial crisis was not Gordon's Browns fault, however, the fact our National Debt has soared since 2000 from 35% to 55% of GDP is his and Labour's fault alone due to poor decisions and pointless unbacked wars based on lies.

    I also agree with someones earlier point that people vote Labour for very wrong reasons. I have met numerous people who claim they are 'Labour born and bred' the most ridiculous term i've ever heard. This base of Labour voters do not understand the economy or the political system and merely vote Labour because they believe they represent them and that the Conservatives only represent 'toffs'.
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    (Original post by jrhartley)
    What, like out of his control like selling our gold reserves at a quarter of their current value?
    Yes, I think its out of Gordons control to predict future gold price. It would have meant predicting 11/9 and two wars for a start.

    Reverse the argument, was it out of control of the Chancellors in the 70s not selling the gold before falling over 80% (not even inflation adjusted)?
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    I see Labour is trying to present the 'naughty Tories making political capital out of children attacking each other' card regarding David Cameron's quite reasonable comments regarding the boys who beat two others half to death. John Prescott, it seems, is very critical of it.

    Little do they remember that this is almost exactly what Tony Blair did in opposition just after the James Bulger murder. "We hear of crimes so horrific they provoke anger and disbelief in equal proportions"; "these are the ugly manifestations of a society that is becoming unworthy of that name."

    Labour: ignoring the planks in their eyes since 1993.
 
 
 
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