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    (Original post by MonsterMash)
    I also agree with someones earlier point that people vote Labour for very wrong reasons. I have met numerous people who claim they are 'Labour born and bred' the most ridiculous term i've ever heard. This base of Labour voters do not understand the economy or the political system and merely vote Labour because they believe they represent them and that the Conservatives only represent 'toffs'.
    I don't think the patronising reason you give that Labour supporters vote for the party really stands. Usually its the opposite and their understanding of our electoral system means if they don't vote Labour or Conservative,their vote will be pretty much worthless. And I'll be damned if you could find many Labour supporters who would ever want to give a vote to the Tories.
    Even though New Labour have abandoned their traditional supporters,it isn't exactly unjustified to say the Tories only represent 'toffs' when the Shadow Cabinet looks more like an Old Etonian Alumni party rather than a group which represents the values and beliefs of the majoirty of the country is it?
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    (Original post by Krakatoa)
    I don't think the patronising reason you give that Labour supporters vote for the party really stands. Usually its the opposite and their understanding of our electoral system means if they don't vote Labour or Conservative,their vote will be pretty much worthless. And I'll be damned if you could find many Labour supporters who would ever want to give a vote to the Tories.
    Even though New Labour have abandoned their traditional supporters,it isn't exactly unjustified to say the Tories only represent 'toffs' when the Shadow Cabinet looks more like an Old Etonian Alumni party rather than a group which represents the values and beliefs of the majoirty of the country is it?
    What i said about those Labour supporters is not a reason that i believe they vote Labour, it is the reason that a huge majority of people i have spoken to say why they vote for Labour. You are however completely correct that these voters would never vote for the Conservative party, but this is largely down to the same reason they vote Labour election after election, they believe that it is their families heritage to support Labour.

    The number of MP's on both sides of the fence who went to independent schools and who send their children into private education means you can hardly class the Tories as the only 'toff' party. That is a stereotype that is outdated yet still classed as truth.
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    (Original post by Dnator)
    A guy turned up to my rugby club in the car in your sig (California?), everyone wet themselves
    Nah it's the 458 italia, it's the replacement for the 430.
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    (Original post by RachaelS)
    If you bring the tories back into power, maggie thatcher will be reborn and start sneaking into our houses and stealing our milk ¬¬
    This always makes me laugh, my history teacher mentioned Thatcher the other day and someone went "***** STOLE OUR MILK!", then my teacher called her "Thatcher the Milk Snatcher". It's like, of all the things she did that people could criticise, milk gets the most attention. :lol:
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    (Original post by lauren--c)
    This always makes me laugh, my history teacher mentioned Thatcher the other day and someone went "***** STOLE OUR MILK!", then my teacher called her "Thatcher the Milk Snatcher". It's like, of all the things she did that people could criticise, milk gets the most attention. :lol:
    Whats milk got to do with her?
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    (Original post by wizz_kid)
    Whats milk got to do with her?
    Very little now, but quite a lot when she was Secretary of State for Education and Science. Google and Wikipedia are your friends.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Very little now, but quite a lot when she was Secretary of State for Education and Science. Google and Wikipedia are your friends.
    Haha i'm with u now!
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    (Original post by amiparanoid)
    Is it me or have you been reading Left Foot Forward?

    If you have, I may rep you.
    Nah, I haven't
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    (Original post by jacketpotato)
    I've love to see you justify this. Labour's response to the recession has been very effective. Considering how exposed we are to financial crises given our large financial services sector, its pretty damn impressive that the UK economy is predicted by Goldman Sachs to grow by 3.4% next year - 1% more than the US and 1.5% more than Europe. In both the 1980/82 and 91/92 recessions under the Tories, it took 13 quarters for the economy to return to growth.
    You're abusing two sets of figures here - this recession is far deeper than the 80/81 or 91/92 recessions:


    (Original post by jacketpotato)
    Compare employment trends with those in the last two recessions under the Tories. In the last two recessions, unemployment continued to rise for much, much longer than it did in this recession - unemployment peaked in 1984 and 1993 at 11.9% and 10.7% respectively. In this recession, unemployment has peaked at 7.9% and is already dropping - you'd barely know its a lagging indicator. Its hard to put that down to anything but government intervention.
    Except that to cut the structural deficeit to zero (which is going to have to happen one way or another) we'll have to scrap around a fifth of government jobs, which would put us above that figure. Also I think the disabled used to be counted into jobless totals?
    And once again, don't think unemployment's peaked just yet - considering that it takes a state defeceit of £500,000,000 PER DAY, the scrappage scheme, 15% VAT rate and the bank of england's "let's print money mostly to drive down gilt prices" policy to produce a growth of 0.1%, I'd say the worst is yet to come.
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    (Original post by TShadow383)
    Except that to cut the structural deficeit to zero (which is going to have to happen one way or another)
    Really? Why?

    (hate to ask, your post was very sensible for TSR other than that)
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Really? Why?

    (hate to ask, your post was very sensible for TSR other than that)
    Because we can't just keep borrowing money forever or we'll go bankrupt...
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    (Original post by TShadow383)
    Because we can't just keep borrowing money forever or we'll go bankrupt...
    Another visit to the IMF from the Labour Party eh
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    Another visit to the IMF from the Labour Party eh

    Not unless we go bankrupt before May.
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    (Original post by Potally_Tissed)
    Not unless we go bankrupt before May.
    True. The Labour Party would probably rather bankrupt this country than lose an election...

    The Labour party is like a child who breaks the toy because the other children are playing with it.
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    (Original post by TShadow383)
    Because we can't just keep borrowing money forever or we'll go bankrupt...
    As long as borrowing is less than/equal to GDP growth we won't.
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    (Original post by Potally_Tissed)
    Not unless we go bankrupt before May.
    There are many other countries that would first.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    As long as borrowing is less than/equal to GDP growth we won't.
    Assuming borrowing and interest on borrowing is less than/equal to GDP we won't
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    (Original post by Quady)
    As long as borrowing is less than/equal to GDP growth we won't.

    If borrowing keeps increasing then the interest on that debt will keep increasing as well. GDP would have to grow exponentially to keep up.
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    (Original post by Potally_Tissed)
    If borrowing keeps increasing then the interest on that debt will keep increasing as well. GDP would have to grow exponentially to keep up.
    I didn't realise public borrowing was separate to interest.

    So we are currently borrowing 13% of GDP, then there is interest as well - where does that money come from?
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    Assuming borrowing and interest on borrowing is less than/equal to GDP we won't
    Thats true, but obviously you just divide through to normalise to 100%. You could still borrow.

    Personally I'd be suprised if we go over 100% debt:GDP though.
 
 
 
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