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    (Original post by RightSaidJames)
    Prostitution is illegal for everyone.

    Besides, plenty of men take care of/support the women they love without ever marrying them. Marriage is really just a legal/religious thing, and under these terms you can only do it with one person at a time. That doesn't in any way prevent you from having multiple partners outside of marriage.

    I really don't see how the two things are connected.
    Exchanging money for sex is not illegal, at least not totally. Certain forms of it are.
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    (Original post by Greens)
    ...
    I was not necessarily addressing you in my post which is why I didn't find it an obligation to quote you.
    And just as I thought a topic which didn't mention Islam to begin with has nicely come under attack from the Islamophobes. Well done.

    Evidence: Number of murders per capita:

    # 1 Colombia: 0.617847 per 1,000 people
    # 2 South Africa: 0.496008 per 1,000 people
    # 3 Jamaica: 0.324196 per 1,000 people
    # 4 Venezuela: 0.316138 per 1,000 people
    # 5 Russia: 0.201534 per 1,000 people
    # 6 Mexico: 0.130213 per 1,000 people
    # 7 Estonia: 0.107277 per 1,000 people
    # 8 Latvia: 0.10393 per 1,000 people
    # 9 Lithuania: 0.102863 per 1,000 people
    # 10 Belarus: 0.0983495 per 1,000 people
    # 11 Ukraine: 0.094006 per 1,000 people
    # 12 Papua New Guinea: 0.0838593 per 1,000 people
    # 13 Kyrgyzstan: 0.0802565 per 1,000 people
    # 14 Thailand: 0.0800798 per 1,000 people
    # 15 Moldova: 0.0781145 per 1,000 people
    # 16 Zimbabwe: 0.0749938 per 1,000 people
    # 17 Seychelles: 0.0739025 per 1,000 people
    # 18 Zambia: 0.070769 per 1,000 people
    # 19 Costa Rica: 0.061006 per 1,000 people
    # 20 Poland: 0.0562789 per 1,000 people
    # 21 Georgia: 0.0511011 per 1,000 people
    # 22 Uruguay: 0.045082 per 1,000 people
    # 23 Bulgaria: 0.0445638 per 1,000 people
    # 24 United States: 0.042802 per 1,000 people
    # 25 Armenia: 0.0425746 per 1,000 people
    # 26 India: 0.0344083 per 1,000 people
    # 27 Yemen: 0.0336276 per 1,000 people
    # 28 Dominica: 0.0289733 per 1,000 people
    # 29 Azerbaijan: 0.0285642 per 1,000 people
    # 30 Finland: 0.0283362 per 1,000 people
    # 31 Slovakia: 0.0263303 per 1,000 people
    # 32 Romania: 0.0250784 per 1,000 people
    # 33 Portugal: 0.0233769 per 1,000 people
    # 34 Malaysia: 0.0230034 per 1,000 people
    # 35 Macedonia: 0.0229829 per 1,000 people
    # 36 Mauritius: 0.021121 per 1,000 people
    # 37 Hungary: 0.0204857 per 1,000 people
    # 38 Korea, South: 0.0196336 per 1,000 people
    # 39 Slovenia: 0.0179015 per 1,000 people
    # 40 France: 0.0173272 per 1,000 people
    # 41 Czech Republic: 0.0169905 per 1,000 people
    # 42 Iceland: 0.0168499 per 1,000 people
    # 43 Australia: 0.0150324 per 1,000 people
    # 44 Canada: 0.0149063 per 1,000 people
    # 45 Chile: 0.014705 per 1,000 people
    # 46 United Kingdom: 0.0140633 per 1,000 people
    # 47 Italy: 0.0128393 per 1,000 people
    # 48 Spain: 0.0122456 per 1,000 people
    # 49 Germany: 0.0116461 per 1,000 people
    # 50 Tunisia: 0.0112159 per 1,000 people
    # 51 Netherlands: 0.0111538 per 1,000 people
    # 52 New Zealand: 0.0111524 per 1,000 people
    # 53 Denmark: 0.0106775 per 1,000 people
    # 54 Norway: 0.0106684 per 1,000 people
    # 55 Ireland: 0.00946215 per 1,000 people
    # 56 Switzerland: 0.00921351 per 1,000 people
    # 57 Indonesia: 0.00910842 per 1,000 people
    # 58 Greece: 0.0075928 per 1,000 people
    # 59 Hong Kong: 0.00550804 per 1,000 people
    # 60 Japan: 0.00499933 per 1,000 people
    # 61 Saudi Arabia: 0.00397456 per 1,000 people
    # 62 Qatar: 0.00115868 per 1,000 people

    How many Muslim countries in the top?

    I don't find the need to justify myself with a formal document, because it really is as silly as it sounds. As I'v said earlier, the government doesn't need to enact a law for every one of your views to legitmise them. Similar to how you don't speak for every Muslim to compare women with meat, jewellery and God knows what.

    If we differ on our views and you admit that, there's no reason to call it irrelevant. Its akin to saying "prostitution is good" yet when i say its not you respond "don't say its not good, that's not relevant to what im saying."
    I mentioned why it acts as a discentive to show it at least attempts to serve a noble purpose-to curb crime. What does prostitution do?-Provide an empty space for you to ejaculate your excess semen into?

    Goodnight.
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    Marrying more than 1 person isn't illegal - it's just that multiple marriages aren't recognised by the state. There is nothing stopping a man or woman getting married to a 2nd person through a ceremony, exchange of vows etc. and consider themselves to be married. It's just that the government will not give you the benefits of a state registered married couple.
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    its just a way of making people cheat on their marriages, go to numerous partners and shoulder no responsibility for the actions. (and of course, to spread STDs!)
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    (Original post by jammiebreadman)
    Marrying more than 1 person isn't illegal - it's just that multiple marriages aren't recognised by the state. There is nothing stopping a man or woman getting married to a 2nd person through a ceremony, exchange of vows etc. and consider themselves to be married. It's just that the government will not give you the benefits of a state registered married couple.
    so, if someone declares marriage to more than one, is it punishable by law? what if an organization recognises the marriage and keeps record of such? is it a crime?
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    (Original post by obviouslystudying)
    so, if someone declares marriage to more than one, is it punishable by law? what if an organization recognises the marriage and keeps record of such? is it a crime?
    To say you're married to more than one cannot be against the law. But the government only entitles you to one 'benefit filled' marriage, so to say that you were married to more than one in legal documents for example I guess could be considered as fraud as in a legal sense this cannot be true.

    It really depends on what you mean by marriage - many people see marriage as a religious or a cultural thing - rather than just a legal statement and in many cultures it is acceptable to marry more than one partner. The state does not prevent this, but it provides a system where you can register one married partner and obtain legal benefits out of this.

    For instance, I'm a Christian and to me, marriage really is mainly a religious event to me. I would consider myself married, if I had a ceremony in a church, even if I hadn't registered it with the government. I probably still would do so, to obtain the many benefits, get automatically called Mr and Mrs etc. but it really isn't what marriage is to me.
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    (Original post by saalih)
    why should it be legalized? who benefits from such a filthy business? no respect for women, men enjoying sex outside of marriage whenever they wish...destruction of families...no good comes out of it
    Some would say that it empowers women. I'm not saying that everyone would be like this, but if men would pay thier own hard-earned money to have sex with one particular person rather than getting it for free elsewhere can say a lot about the man (and woman) in question. Another thing to consider is, do you think that the prostitutes themselves have respect for the men they sleep with? I wouldn't think so.
    Also, if it's married men having sex with prostitutes which destroys families there is obviously something fundamentally wrong with the relationship and the man in question would probably committ adultery in some other way anyway. And it's not just married men who visit prostitutes!

    However, if it were to be legalised (which I think it should), it would have to be heavily regulated to make sure the prostitutes aren't being exploited.
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    (Original post by emmarainbow)
    I think marriages should have a clause to include more people (with consent of all involved ocourse), and I also think that prostitution should be legalised properly, taxed heavily and have govt-approved brothels. Stops sex slavery almost overnight.
    Hardly, the world is more complicated than that.

    If you tax it heavily, evidently people will still operate in the black market where they don't pay tax so they can offer it at a lower price.
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    (Original post by Joy Division)
    Hardly, the world is more complicated than that.

    If you tax it heavily, evidently people will still operate in the black market where they don't pay tax so they can offer it at a lower price.
    I know I'm oversimplifying, but you also know what I mean.

    Also, I would hope that men aren't so awful as to have sex with someone that they think is a sex slave.

    That said, that's not what latest figures have been, alas:
    http://www.thefword.org.uk/blog/2010/01/interviewing_me
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    (Original post by You Failed)
    Yes but what is being said is that it's the girl who is commiting the crime buy selling herself while on the street, not the guy who is looking for the girl. To use the earlier example, it's a crime to sell heroin (Just like it's a crime for a girl to sell herself on the street) but it's not a crime to just go looking for the people who are selling the heroin (Just like it's not a crime to go looking for illegal drugs, as long as you don't buy them).

    I just think you misunderstood what I was saying, I was talking about the people looking for the girls, not the girls themselves.
    He's right. You can be charged with kerbcrawling (although think it was an amendment to 2003 sexual offences act rather than 2001)

    http://www.hampshire.police.uk/Inter...outhampton.htm

    http://archive.thisishampshire.net/2002/5/30/64283.html
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    (Original post by maxPP)
    He's right. You can be charged with kerbcrawling (although think it was an amendment to 2003 sexual offences act rather than 2001)

    http://www.hampshire.police.uk/Inter...outhampton.htm

    http://archive.thisishampshire.net/2002/5/30/64283.html
    ...Sigh...I KNOW kerb crawling is illegal. If you read what I was saying though, you'd know I wasn't argueing against that. What I was saying is that it's not illegal to actively go looking for kerb crawlers, while kerb crawling itself is illegal, looking for people who do it, isn't.
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    (Original post by You Failed)
    ...Sigh...I KNOW kerb crawling is illegal. If you read what I was saying though, you'd know I wasn't argueing against that. What I was saying is that it's not illegal to actively go looking for kerb crawlers, while kerb crawling itself is illegal, looking for people who do it, isn't.
    You seem to have mixed up who the kerb crawler actually is.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerb_crawler

    It's the guy not the prostitute.
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    (Original post by maxPP)
    You seem to have mixed up who the kerb crawler actually is.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerb_crawler

    It's the guy not the prostitute.
    Oh, sorry yeah, that's my mistake then. I was under the impression a kerb crawler was a prostitute who was selling her self along the streets. Even so, this law can't really be enforced, like I said earlier, there's no way to actually prove that the person in the car was actively searching for prostitutes rather than say, searching for a chip shop.
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    (Original post by You Failed)
    I don't think you're right, I can't find anywhere where it says it's illegal to look for prostitutes in a public place, besides even if it were illegal, there would be literally no way to enforce it. How can you prove that they were in fact searching for a prostitute instead of say, a chippy.

    You're also wrong about the Heroin, it's fine to look where you can buy heroin, to have laws against that would be absurd, what's illegal is the act of buying, selling and possessing heroin.
    you can look all you like, but the moment you ask someone you are breaking the law. A law designed to protect innocent people from harrassment.
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    (Original post by MJlover)
    you posted this on the ummah forum, didn't you?
    is it illegal to do so?
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    (Original post by Jasmine1988)
    I get the point of ur explanation, but if u were a woman, could u imagine sharing the same man with another woman (I guess nights come into play the most)? It seems a bit disgusting... Prostitution is very wrong... So I would say both are unethical and both should be banned...
    it is not disgusting, it is normal and sometimes it becomes a must..

    throughout history the number of men has been more than women, then whenever wars happen, the number of men decrease further...that means more women and less men...

    how many are widowed? how many are divorced?

    so the choice for woman is this, to live with dignity and respect with a married man (who must be just in his actions towards his wives), or be content having sex with married/unmarried men, either through prostitution or through friendship/relationship, which means she cannot be ever sure about it, and if she had kids, thats even worse, she cannot even have a proper family life!!!

    for a man i ask, which choice you prefer for your sister?

    and i ask the woman, which choice she would prefer?
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    (Original post by saalih)
    it is not disgusting, it is normal and sometimes it becomes a must..

    throughout history the number of men has been more than women, then whenever wars happen, the number of men decrease further...that means more women and less men...

    how many are widowed? how many are divorced?

    so the choice for woman is this, to live with dignity and respect with a married man (who must be just in his actions towards his wives), or be content having sex with married/unmarried men, either through prostitution or through friendship/relationship, which means she cannot be ever sure about it, and if she had kids, thats even worse, she cannot even have a proper family life!!!

    for a man i ask, which choice you prefer for your sister?

    and i ask the woman, which choice she would prefer?
    Errm no. Generally there are more women than men even without wars. Women live longer and fewer die at birth. At least now a days; we don't live in prehistoric times where 60% of women die in child birth.

    I also noticed you asked if a man isn't married to a woman how can he be forced to support her. Why should he support her? She can get a job. All he would/should do is pay for 1/2 of the child costs and look after the child half the time. He should not be expected ot pay for his GF/wife.
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    (Original post by saalih)
    I would like to ask what a feminist (or anyone who is against more than one marriages for men and ok with prostitution) thinks about this?
    I think you'd be pretty hard-pressed to find an intelligent feminist in support of prostitution and against polygamy.

    (Original post by saalih)
    what???? where is it illegal in the west? please do let me know if that includes u.s.a or u.k
    I can vouch for prostitution (that is, having sex in exchange for monetary or other material compensation) being illegal in all parts of the USA, with the notable exception of a little town in Nevada named Reno.

    (Original post by saalih)
    for a man i ask, which choice you prefer for your sister?
    My preference is of no consequence. How my sister chooses to live her life is her decision alone.

    The problem with this conversation is the vantage point. In the UK, US and most other western countries, it would be against the essence of gender equality (particularly important in a country with a queen as the monarch) to deem one man having multiple wives acceptable, unless you were also ready to accept the prospect of one woman having multiple husbands. So let's hear it. Is that also acceptable to you, saalih? If it is, then we're in agreement. Otherwise, not so much.
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    (Original post by fat.american.kid)

    My preference is of no consequence. How my sister chooses to live her life is her decision alone.

    The problem with this conversation is the vantage point. In the UK, US and most other western countries, it would be against the essence of gender equality (particularly important in a country with a queen as the monarch) to deem one man having multiple wives acceptable, unless you were also ready to accept the prospect of one woman having multiple husbands. So let's hear it. Is that also acceptable to you, saalih? If it is, then we're in agreement. Otherwise, not so much.
    i did not ask you to force your sister, i asked which one would you prefer for your sister, and i think an intelligent man would prefer her marrying someone already married rather than be a prostitute..

    as for women marrying more than one man, there are lots of problems with that...

    first of all, the number of men is less than the number of women, so women marrying more than one means more problems for women.

    second of all, women marrying more than one man, then men marrying more than one woman!!! will there be anything as a proper family?

    also....
    If a man has more than one wife, the parents of the children born of such marriages can easily be identified. The father as well as the mother can easily be identified. In case of a woman marrying more than one husband, only the mother of the children born of such marriages will be identified and not the father. Islam gives tremendous importance to the identification of both parents, mother and father. Psychologists tell us that children who do not know their parents, especially their father undergo severe mental trauma and disturbances. Often they have an unhappy childhood. It is for this reason that the children of prostitutes do not have a healthy childhood. If a child born of such wedlock is admitted in school, and when the mother is asked the name of the father, she would have to give two or more names! I am aware that recent advances in science have made it possible for both the mother and father to be identified with the help of genetic testing. Thus this point which was applicable for the past may not be applicable for the present.

    Man is more polygamous by nature as compared to a woman.
    Biologically, it is easier for a man to perform his duties as a husband despite having several wives. A woman, in a similar position, having several husbands, will not find it possible to perform her duties as a wife. A woman undergoes several psychological and behavioral changes due to different phases of the menstrual cycle.
    A woman who has more than one husband will have several sexual partners at the same time and has a high chance of acquiring venereal or sexually transmitted diseases which can also be transmitted back to her husband even if all of them have no extra-marital sex. This is not the case in a man having more than one wife, and none of them having extra-marital sex.
    http://www.islamicinvitationcentre.c..._marriage.html

    so i think the comparison is not fair......
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    (Original post by Pheonixx)
    Errm no. Generally there are more women than men even without wars. Women live longer and fewer die at birth. At least now a days; we don't live in prehistoric times where 60% of women die in child birth.

    I also noticed you asked if a man isn't married to a woman how can he be forced to support her. Why should he support her? She can get a job. All he would/should do is pay for 1/2 of the child costs and look after the child half the time. He should not be expected ot pay for his GF/wife.
    my bad, that is what i meant, the number of men is generally more than women....

    well i think a woman should get support even if she is working so that she can take care of the house properly...but i do not like the idea of a "live in" relationship at all where there is no commitment, family life is destroyed this way and children are not brought up the right way....
 
 
 
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