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    Hey everyone,

    I have an offer for UCL law with advanced studies as well as one for the German University of Heidelberg, arguably number one in the country.

    I want to go to the US afterwards for a JD.

    I'd like to get some of your opinions on what you'd do. I'm German btw.
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    Both great unis but I would go for UCL without a doubt. I think a law degree from there will definitely open more doors for you in terms of career prospects, JD prospects. And as your German, I'm sure doing a Law degree in London would be such an awesome new experience as opposed to staying in your home country!
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    Ultimately it's up to you, you may find studying in London to be an awesome experience though.
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    I think there might actually be a lot of merit in going to UCL.

    First of all, if you want to practice in America, it might be better to study English law as America and England share extremely similar legal systems (for obvious reasons). I think there's a few concepts in American and English law that are probably more more heavily emphasised than in German law (e.g. the use of common law/precedent v the use of codification etc). So studying in England will get you acquainted with these.

    Also, it might help you get acquainted with law terminology and the legal meaning of words in English. There is a strong linguistic element to law and it will probably be useful to be acquainted with legal usage of words before you do the JD. Obviously the meanings of words will be slightly different in America, but it might serve as a useful introduction.

    On the flipside, studying in Germany lets you study a type of legal system which might give you a broader and more well-rounded view of how the law works. So I guess it comes down to personal preference and personal finances.
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    I just noticed your offer is for Law with Advanced Studies - take it! Those things are hard to come by.
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    (Original post by LuluLawless)
    Hey everyone,

    I have an offer for UCL law with advanced studies as well as one for the German University of Heidelberg, arguably number one in the country.

    I want to go to the US afterwards for a JD.

    I'd like to get some of your opinions on what you'd do. I'm German btw.
    It is ultimately up to you. In my opinion, studying in the UK gives you a broader, more international prospect from which to appreciate the variety of laws that govern us.
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    (Original post by LuluLawless)
    Hey everyone,

    I have an offer for UCL law with advanced studies as well as one for the German University of Heidelberg, arguably number one in the country.

    I want to go to the US afterwards for a JD.

    I'd like to get some of your opinions on what you'd do. I'm German btw.
    I'd go for UCL, as doing a law degree in an English-speaking country will improve your English reading and writing. It might also get you an exemption from the TOEFL.

    That said, I would think very carefully before assuming you can just go to the US to do a JD. It can be very difficult to get a visa to live and work there, so if you intend to practise there look into the procedures carefully. Living in Europe it's easy to lose sight of how stringent visa requirements outside the EU are.
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    Everybody thank you very much for your answers.

    So it seems that UCL attracts more votes.

    @ParadigmShift. I heard that but is it really that hard to come by? Also does it give me like a second Bachelor degree?
    @jjarvis: just wondering. are u applying for a master's degree? I heard that you can only apply to either Cam or Ox when going to undergrad.

    Moreover, I'm wondering if a degree from UCL gives me a serious shot to apply for law school at an Ivy League school. Opinions/Experiences?
    What do you guys think about just taking a bar exam in NY instead of studying again?

    appreciate your help!
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    (Original post by LuluLawless)
    Everybody thank you very much for your answers.

    So it seems that UCL attracts more votes.

    @ParadigmShift. I heard that but is it really that hard to come by? Also does it give me like a second Bachelor degree?
    Well there's only 6 places a year for the course, so ja. :yep:
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    (Original post by LuluLawless)
    @jjarvis: just wondering. are u applying for a master's degree? I heard that you can only apply to either Cam or Ox when going to undergrad.

    Moreover, I'm wondering if a degree from UCL gives me a serious shot to apply for law school at an Ivy League school. Opinions/Experiences?
    What do you guys think about just taking a bar exam in NY instead of studying again?

    appreciate your help!
    No, I applied for the BA(Hons) in Jurisprudence with Senior Status and the BA(Hons) in Law as an Affiliated Student (at Oxford and Cambridge respectively). If you already have an undergraduate degree (or will when you start) you can apply for both Oxford and Cambridge.

    A degree from UCL will give you a shot at a top law school in the United States. You will also need a high degree class (probably a first, with a solid string of firsts and an occasional 2:i--but ideally straight firsts--from your first year on), a high LSAT score, good extracurricular activities, a great set of essays (there will be different essays for each law school), and a great recommendation. A law degree from UCL is a good start, but it isn't a passport to Harvard, Yale or Stanford. Yale accepts about 6% of the people who apply there--and their pool is incredibly well-qualified and competitive. There are less competitive law schools, but remember everyone applying to top schools will have strong grades and a decent LSAT. There are several things you should bear in mind.

    First, you seem to have entirely ignored my point on the visa issue. This is incredibly important. If you can get into a top fourteen school, then you might have a shot at getting a job where they will arrange a visa for you. Do not assume this will be easy or straightforward. There is very little room in the legal profession in the US at the moment.

    Second, it will cost you about $60k/year to go to a top ranked law school. How are you planning on getting this money, for the three years you'll have to study for a JD?

    Third, the Ivy League is nothing like as important for law school as for undergrad. The relevant grouping is the top fourteen, comprising Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Penn, Georgetown, UVA, Michigan, Berkeley, Chicago, Duke, Northwestern, NYU, Columbia, and Cornell. Harvard, Stanford, and Yale are generally viewed as the holy trinity; they will be recognised everywhere. While the others are nationally recognised, they tend to send attorneys to regional firms. You'll note that Brown and Dartmouth do not feature, and that there are non-Ivy law schools that are superb. In fact, one of the top three is not an Ivy at all.

    Finally, I would discourage you in the strongest possible terms from thinking you can waltz over to New York, take the bar, and get a job at a top firm (or, for that matter, at all.) You will need to study a lot of American law to have any chance at all of passing the bar. Then, you will be competing with people who have spent three years studying American law, when the only thing you have is a UK law degree and the bar. That is not enough to get a job. So no, that's not an option. You'd have real difficulty getting a job in New York without a JD and without experience as a practising lawyer. Also bear in mind that you would only be qualified in New York, at least for a while.

    Why are you dead set on practising in the US? You might give this some thought--there's a lot of hurdles to leap before you'll get near the bar in the US. It's much simpler for you to qualify, practise, and live in England and Wales than in the US.
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    jjarvis,

    you've been most helpful. I appreciate that very much. Still, with your answers also arise new questions.

    Where did you hear that those 14 law schools are the top ones? 14 seems like a rather random and also large number. Has there been a certain popular study? If so, could you be so kind to provide me with a link?

    I spent over a year in the US and furthermore did an internship at a big law firm. It's just that I really enjoy living there and believe that it would be great working there, too. I know competition is fierce, but that's true for pretty much every country. What speaks in favor of staying in the UK? And what is it exactly you're doing? You're getting a second LLB? I'm not familiar with the degrees you mentioned. Would that be an option for me?

    I really didn't regard the visa issue. That's true. Is it that hard to get a permanent visa when being a professional? I never imagined.

    And don't worry, I wasn't planning on taking that route to NY but had heard several rumours. That makes no sense, though. I agree.
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    (Original post by LuluLawless)
    jjarvis,

    you've been most helpful. I appreciate that very much. Still, with your answers also arise new questions.

    Where did you hear that those 14 law schools are the top ones? 14 seems like a rather random and also large number. Has there been a certain popular study? If so, could you be so kind to provide me with a link?

    I spent over a year in the US and furthermore did an internship at a big law firm. It's just that I really enjoy living there and believe that it would be great working there, too. I know competition is fierce, but that's true for pretty much every country. What speaks in favor of staying in the UK? And what is it exactly you're doing? You're getting a second LLB? I'm not familiar with the degrees you mentioned. Would that be an option for me?

    I really didn't regard the visa issue. That's true. Is it that hard to get a permanent visa when being a professional? I never imagined.

    And don't worry, I wasn't planning on taking that route to NY but had heard several rumours. That makes no sense, though. I agree.
    http://www.top-law-schools.com/rankings.html

    Note that HSY are the really big guns, and that the others tend to have a (slightly) regional feel--people from NYU and Columbia tend to end up on the east coast, people at Chicago in the Midwest, etc. This is the conventional wisdom, but like all rankings it ought to be taken with a pound of salt. Still, these are the numbers firms consider. Bear in mind that there are a hell of a lot more law schools in the US than in Germany or the UK.

    I'm getting a second undergraduate degree in law. My first degree is in history and politics. You wouldn't need to get another undergrad degree in law. (In fact, I don't have to get an undergrad degree--I could do the GDL in a year--but I'd rather study in a more academic course.) The JD I mentioned is the US law degree. I'm planning on staying in the UK after I finish here. I just suggested you be willing to stay in the UK if your visa doesn't pan out. Living and working here won't be a problem, as you're an EU citizen. Getting a professional visa might not be as difficult as all that, but I wouldn't assume it's easy or a foregone conclusion. That said, if you got a visa for an internship for a year that bodes well for you.
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    Based on my personal experience, unless you are exceptionally bright, I would think long and hard before even applying to do the JD at a top 14 law school in America as an international student.

    Obstacles include:
    a) cost: most top 14 schools cost around 70,000 USD per year (tuition +living costs), and this amount will keep rising every year
    -yes, there is financial aid, but it is limited, both in amount and those who can receive it (especially as an international student)
    -yes, you can take out loans, but it is very difficult and more expensive when you are not a U.S. citizen
    b) visa issues, but jjarvis already mentioned that
    c) entry requirements: high LSAT and GPA/Class of degree are basically a must for the top 14, if you have one but not the other your chances are slim, some very smart people just don't do well on the LSAT, so keep that in mind
    d) family issues: this is something that is completely person-dependant about (important for me but everyone is different), but as you grow older you may wish to be closer to your family and loved ones,

    These are just my two cents. I speak from personal experience though, holding a good degree from a good university and a 170 LSAT score (better than 98 percent of people who take the test).

    In the end, I decided to do a second undergraduate/affiliated degree in Law at Oxbridge. I got lucky and got in!
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    (Original post by QC2009)
    Based on my personal experience, unless you are exceptionally bright, I would think long and hard before even applying to do the JD at a top 14 law school in America as an international student.

    Obstacles include:
    a) cost: most top 14 schools cost around 70,000 USD per year (tuition +living costs), and this amount will keep rising every year
    -yes, there is financial aid, but it is limited, both in amount and those who can receive it (especially as an international student)
    -yes, you can take out loans, but it is very difficult and more expensive when you are not a U.S. citizen
    b) visa issues, but jjarvis already mentioned that
    c) entry requirements: high LSAT and GPA/Class of degree are basically a must for the top 14, if you have one but not the other your chances are slim, some very smart people just don't do well on the LSAT, so keep that in mind
    d) family issues: this is something that is completely person-dependant about (important for me but everyone is different), but as you grow older you may wish to be closer to your family and loved ones,

    These are just my two cents. I speak from personal experience though, holding a good degree from a good university and a 170 LSAT score (better than 98 percent of people who take the test).

    In the end, I decided to do a second undergraduate/affiliated degree in Law at Oxbridge. I got lucky and got in!
    Heh, we're in a similar position. I got 168 on the LSAT, and am predicted a first at Edinburgh. I thought about applying to do the JD, and would have been looking at the t-14 (though probably not HSY). I decided to stay over here to qualify and practise. I happen to have dual citizenship, so that wouldn't have been an issue. Most of my family are in the US, though. I'm working on figuring out how to fund my degree over here--but that will cost about as much as one year in the states, and I get help from my dad's office which offsets the cost.

    Where are you doing/going to do affiliated law? Which college? You should join the law applicants/offers thread!
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    (Original post by LuluLawless)
    jjarvis,

    you've been most helpful. I appreciate that very much. Still, with your answers also arise new questions.

    Where did you hear that those 14 law schools are the top ones? 14 seems like a rather random and also large number. Has there been a certain popular study? If so, could you be so kind to provide me with a link?

    I spent over a year in the US and furthermore did an internship at a big law firm. It's just that I really enjoy living there and believe that it would be great working there, too. I know competition is fierce, but that's true for pretty much every country. What speaks in favor of staying in the UK? And what is it exactly you're doing? You're getting a second LLB? I'm not familiar with the degrees you mentioned. Would that be an option for me?

    I really didn't regard the visa issue. That's true. Is it that hard to get a permanent visa when being a professional? I never imagined.

    And don't worry, I wasn't planning on taking that route to NY but had heard several rumours. That makes no sense, though. I agree.
    Hello there, if you'd really like to get an LLB and a JD, you might be interested to read about UCL and Columbia's 4-year programme in which you spend 2 years at each institution, eventually graduating with degrees from both.

    You don't need to start thinking about it until you're actually at UCL, as you'd apply while you're doing the LLB, and if successful transfer at the end of your 2nd year. This might make it slightly easier on the visa issue, but it is very expensive. However, I don't think it's as competitive as you might think, as most people are put off by the cost and the idea of moving so far away on their own. It is, however, still difficult to get onto.

    More info: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/laws/prospectiv...shtml?columbia
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    (Original post by Onearmedbandit)
    Hello there, if you'd really like to get an LLB and a JD, you might be interested to read about UCL and Columbia's 4-year programme in which you spend 2 years at each institution, eventually graduating with degrees from both.

    You don't need to start thinking about it until you're actually at UCL, as you'd apply while you're doing the LLB, and if successful transfer at the end of your 2nd year. This might make it slightly easier on the visa issue, but it is very expensive. However, I don't think it's as competitive as you might think, as most people are put off by the cost and the idea of moving so far away on their own. It is, however, still difficult to get onto.

    More info: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/laws/prospectiv...shtml?columbia
    I've already considered this. What exactly do you have to achieve to stand a chance to obtain that? Do you have any idea how many people apply every year? Did you apply back then?
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    (Original post by LuluLawless)
    I've already considered this. What exactly do you have to achieve to stand a chance to obtain that? Do you have any idea how many people apply every year? Did you apply back then?
    nah I didn't apply because there's no way I could have afforded it. i'm not sure how many people apply, but this is something you might be able to ask the faculty about.
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    However, I heard that a lot of big firms come to the campuses and offer paid summer clerkships. So if I studied over there, I would also have the possibility of sealing deals with potential employers before graduation, right? Is this practice common in the UK and UCL in particular?
    With that being said the visa issue wouldn't be all that difficult. Where exactly is the problem for the employers anyways getting me a visa? What would they have to do?
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    (Original post by LuluLawless)
    However, I heard that a lot of big firms come to the campuses and offer paid summer clerkships. So if I studied over there, I would also have the possibility of sealing deals with potential employers before graduation, right? Is this practice common in the UK and UCL in particular?
    With that being said the visa issue wouldn't be all that difficult. Where exactly is the problem for the employers anyways getting me a visa? What would they have to do?
    My few cents on the issue as a whole:

    If you do the LLB you will qualify for advanced standing in the US, meaning that you can take the JD and finish it in two years, instead of the usual three. As some members previously noted, UCL offers the LLB-JD scheme under which you would get both the LLB and JD in just four years.

    Additionally, if you study in England you will become acquainted to study and read in English, which will help you in the LSAT essay and reading comprehension sections.

    If you have your heart set on the US JD I think that UCL is the better choice.

    If you would want to obtain an LLM, however, it may be better to go to Heidelberg. As far as I know, schools like Harvard look for diversity alongside academic excellence, thus a German legal background would make you an interesting candidate for the Harvard LLM class.
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    thanks :-)

    Are you sure about the "advanced standing" or "fast track" procedure? Is it generally possible or only at certain schools?
 
 
 
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