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    Wow yeah, because the headmaster of Harrow school is clearly a bastion of lower class education.

    What a complete, snobbish, idiotic ********. Before splurging such a load of crap, why doesn't he take time to look at some statistics........ even if 'soft' subjects do exist, is he really suggesting that doing them and getting a university degree is of no benefit?

    PRAT
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    (Original post by candytreeman)
    Wow yeah, because the headmaster of Harrow school is clearly a bastion of lower class education.

    What a complete, snobbish, idiotic ********. Before splurging such a load of crap, why doesn't he take time to look at some statistics........ even if 'soft' subjects do exist, is he really suggesting that doing them and getting a university degree is of no benefit?

    PRAT
    Any chance of some stats showing they are...?
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    I go to a comp and they dont even do any soft subjects like media studies etc
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    (Original post by aislinn=])
    I go to a comp and they dont even do any soft subjects like media studies etc
    Your school is that bad? :O
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Any chance of some stats showing they are...?
    Yes, the Labor Force Survey, amongst many. Go into any Prospects careers centre and get the statistics. Obviously, numerical and maths based degrees such as Maths have higher monetary value, but all degrees add significant employment value (Vignoles, 2008).

    The onus is on him to provide counter statistics if he is making such claims.
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    (Original post by candytreeman)
    Wow yeah, because the headmaster of Harrow school is clearly a bastion of lower class education.

    What a complete, snobbish, idiotic ********. Before splurging such a load of crap, why doesn't he take time to look at some statistics........ even if 'soft' subjects do exist, is he really suggesting that doing them and getting a university degree is of no benefit?

    PRAT

    The question is not whether there is some benefit, but whether that benefit is greater than what they would get from the alternatives.


    And actually, with some qualifications, I think even the absolute benefit skirts close to zero.
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    Results in general mean nothing. I'd rather be at an establishment that had great results for the solid A levels and rubbish overall results than somewhere with good overall results.
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    (Original post by candytreeman)
    Yes, the Labor Force Survey, amongst many. Go into any Prospects careers centre and get the statistics. Obviously, numerical and maths based degrees such as Maths have higher monetary value, but all degrees add significant employment value (Vignoles, 2008).

    The onus is on him to provide counter statistics if he is making such claims.
    This? http://www.prospects.ac.uk/cms/ShowPage/Home_page/What_do_graduates_do_/Arts__creative_arts___humanities __overview/p!ebXfmmm

    But doing a Physics PhD is apparently 'worse' than working part time in mcdonalds if you work by this...

    It doesn't even show earnings a year after grading let alone 10 years after.
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    Just a nice random question to throw in the mix, is Gov+politics considerd a "Soft" subject?

    But yes i do agree colleges and 6th forms are almost conning some students into taking "soft" subjects so that they are able just to get some decent grades and make the 6th form look appealing to students who might join at a later date.

    Examples of my 6th form are that they;

    1) Make every student apply to uni, and they show this off in the 6th form presentation evening when saying "100% of out students last year applied to uni".

    2) Say if you only got 2 As levels in your first year, iv seen the 6th form allow students back in as long as they take up another As and then stay a 3rd year to complete it. And with any luck that new As that they take is just about always Media studies.


    Personaly I proably was puswaded into taking a "soft" subject after i finished my gcse's, I was looking around the 6th form open evening, having no clue what each "new/soft" subject was about and being facinated by them, as soon as i saw that socilogy had a Crime/Deviance unit inside it i instantly set my heart on it. I guess now i know just what kind of a subject it is i might have instead have chose a subject like physics as im much more logical but at the same the 6th form just made socilogy look so attractive and intresting. They didnt even offer physics when i chose my A levels at my 6th form and to do it i would have had to go to another sch for one of my lessons.


    I see the point that many students do a A level in media studys because they are genuinly intrested within it and want to succeed within that carrea sphear, but I think many others are "pushed" into it just because they need to fill the space of a last subject.
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    (Original post by Dirac Delta Function)
    The question is not whether there is some benefit, but whether that benefit is greater than what they would get from the alternatives.


    And actually, with some qualifications, I think even the absolute benefit skirts close to zero.
    Well, with the alternatives being to work from the age of 18, there is a bit of a glass ceiling when you get to the graduate level jobs and you have no degree. In this case, any degree is better than none.

    Absolute benefit is also missing something crucial; the line of work. Even if you would technically earn more money if you had gone through another method, the university degree will more than likely help you to work in your area of interest.

    Even though my area of work / interest is notoriously difficult and low paid for the majority, it is something I love. Nobody is being conned, it's almost a running joke that we're trying to enter a highly difficult and oversaturated area.

    If I go on to do a PhD in it, it will be low paid, but it'll be fascinating and well worth my time.

    To claim that people are conned into doing these subjects is just naive. They are subjects that people enjoy in areas where they want to work. The only con in this example is this guy trying to act like the great philanthropist.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    This? http://www.prospects.ac.uk/cms/ShowPage/Home_page/What_do_graduates_do_/Arts__creative_arts___humanities __overview/p!ebXfmmm

    But doing a Physics PhD is apparently 'worse' than working part time in mcdonalds if you work by this...

    It doesn't even show earnings a year after grading let alone 10 years after.
    Of course it is, you only get a liveable subsidy for a Physics PhD... after you've completed it obviously that is not the case.

    And yes, that page is based on the statistics, but the statistics themselves are a little more widespread and are available.

    The point is: these are the best statistics you will get, and they prove nothing other than that any degree area has good graduate prospects. Where exactly is his information from??
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    Nice free advert for Harrow in the Guardian. To be honest from what I've seen having attended a university with one of the highest percentages of privately educated students they aren't doing the sciences or maths or medicine - they are studying philosophy, art history and social anthropology mostly. Studying sciences and medicine is a route into the professions for the 'lower middle classes', those who can afford Harrow go to university to finish themselves before working for daddy's merchant bank so make sure you study a subject that sounds right and is easy to get a low 2:1 in. The Headmaster of Harrow needs to tell prospective parents that there is something worth paying for and that studying Art History is far more relevant and useful than studying media studies (aren't they just the same idea applied to different areas?).
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    (Original post by usainlightning)
    Traditional subjects, you can learn doss alevels in about a week of working, they are an absolute waste of time.
    have you ever studied any of these 'doss' subjects?
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    (Original post by cherrycola32)
    have you ever studied any of these 'doss' subjects?
    Lol, do you even have to ask? :P
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    (Original post by ChemistBoy)
    Nice free advert for Harrow in the Guardian. To be honest from what I've seen having attended a university with one of the highest percentages of privately educated students they aren't doing the sciences or maths or medicine - they are studying philosophy, art history and social anthropology mostly. Studying sciences and medicine is a route into the professions for the 'lower middle classes', those who can afford Harrow go to university to finish themselves before working for daddy's merchant bank so make sure you study a subject that sounds right and is easy to get a low 2:1 in. The Headmaster of Harrow needs to tell prospective parents that there is something worth paying for and that studying Art History is far more relevant and useful than studying media studies (aren't they just the same idea applied to different areas?).
    Exactly. I went to private school and the lengths they'd go to in order to get new students was impressive to say the least. This blatantly sounds like an attempt to reassure HMC independent school parents that they aren't just throwing their money away. Conning poor students? Independent schools? Yes. :rolleyes:
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    I think that people need to ignore TSR's views on 'soft' subjects because the contrast between what people say on here and how things actually work in the real world is massive. Yes, graduate job propects for my sort of course are not as well-paid as someone studying economics or whatever, but in the long term they'll serve you better than a fail in a course you chose because of some random further maths student calling it a doss. You'll hear the same advice over and over: Do what you enjoy.

    If you use the fact you study a "hard" subject to assert some form of masculinity it turns you into a pretentious prat.
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    Yeah, it is sickening. Just the other day I was talking to a physics professor (at a top 20 uni) who was dismayed at the lack of basic english skills displayed by physics / maths graduates. You barely ever see people picking up on things like that, yet essay-based arts subjects are "soft" and easy? If anything, they're just an easy target. No, they don't earn you as much as science / maths based degrees. But god forbid the possibility that earning potential isn't top of your priority list..

    Every subject at university level and above that is taught at decent institutions has value.
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    (Original post by candytreeman)
    Yeah, it is sickening. Just the other day I was talking to a physics professor (at a top 20 uni) who was dismayed at the lack of basic english skills displayed by physics / maths graduates. You barely ever see people picking up on things like that, yet essay-based arts subjects are "soft" and easy? If anything, they're just an easy target. No, they don't earn you as much as science / maths based degrees. But god forbid the possibility that earning potential isn't top of your priority list..

    Every subject at university level and above that is taught at decent institutions has value.
    I'm sure Einstein got a Nobel prize for his good spelling and essay writing and physics was quite secondary.
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    (Original post by candytreeman)
    Yeah, it is sickening. Just the other day I was talking to a physics professor (at a top 20 uni) who was dismayed at the lack of basic english skills displayed by physics / maths graduates. You barely ever see people picking up on things like that, yet essay-based arts subjects are "soft" and easy? If anything, they're just an easy target.
    I agree with him as that is my experience too, but these basic English skills should have been taught long before the A level stage and, of course, were so taught in years gone by. This lack of communication skills (which, actually, doesn't just apply to science students) is another fundamental problem with education in Britain today.

    People don't describe essay-based subjects per se as "soft": English, history, economics and RS, for instance, are all seen as respectable, highly academic, subjects.
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    (Original post by candytreeman)
    Of course it is, you only get a liveable subsidy for a Physics PhD... after you've completed it obviously that is not the case.

    And yes, that page is based on the statistics, but the statistics themselves are a little more widespread and are available.

    The point is: these are the best statistics you will get, and they prove nothing other than that any degree area has good graduate prospects. Where exactly is his information from??
    Its more than a liveable subsidy. Usually 14k, sometimes 16k. Remember thats tax/NI free so its comprable to 20k and no/reduced council tax. If you get 14k pre tax at Maccy Ds you'd be doing pretty well.

    Arrrgggg! Anoying I can't find the salary by degree data on the HESA site, I know it must be there...
 
 
 
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