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Rape victim receives 101 lashes for becoming pregnant. watch

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    (Original post by Ibaad'Allaah)
    What are you talking about?

    I gave you the Islaamic view, albeit briefly, regarding cases of rape and their punishment.

    Stoning the adulterer is a sharee'ah punishment.

    Executing the apostate if he/she fails to repent is a sharee'ah punishment.

    It's better to accept you were incorrect in this issue rather than diverting the issue.
    I think he's saying that whenever we hear something like this and people start to have a go at muslims/islam, you lot always say that this isn't written in thye quran/this isn't 'true' islam/they don't represent the majority etc. Well there is a fairly large 'minority' who appear to be doing this sort of thing don't you think? Oh and why is it always islam that does stuff like this?
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    Just to fuel this a bit further, what do you lot make of "fitna"?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kcev1K-NOc
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdLMFs4fv4E
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    (Original post by mathperson)
    I think he's saying that whenever we hear something like this and people start to have a go at muslims/islam, you lot always say that this isn't written in thye quran/this isn't 'true' islam/they don't represent the majority etc. Well there is a fairly large 'minority' who appear to be doing this sort of thing don't you think? Oh and why is it always islam that does stuff like this?
    My thoughts exactly, thank you.
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    (Original post by Ibaad'Allaah)
    What are you talking about?

    I gave you the Islaamic view, albeit briefly, regarding cases of rape and their punishment.

    Stoning the adulterer is a sharee'ah punishment.

    Executing the apostate if he/she fails to repent is a sharee'ah punishment.

    It's better to accept you were incorrect in this issue rather than diverting the issue.
    And another thing, I was having a conversation with two muslims yesterday who were basically saying that islam doesn't treat women as second class citizens, and as usual they wanted quotes from the quran as proof that it does. Well................I gave them 4 or 5 quotations including verses and even page numbers. I then asked for quotations to proove that islam doesn't treat women this way. They danced around the issue for a few hours and tried changing the subject (as usual) but I still havn't got those quotations yet, and they are now strangely quiet :rolleyes: (muslims are good at giving the mouth, but when the tables turn they quite simply fall apart)
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    (Original post by mathperson)
    And another thing, I was having a conversation with two muslims yesterday who were basically saying that islam doesn't treat women as second class citizens, and as usual they wanted quotes from the quran as proof that it does. Well................I gave them 4 or 5 quotations including verses and even page numbers. I then asked for quotations to proove that islam doesn't treat women this way. They danced around the issue for a few hours and tried changing the subject (as usual) but I still havn't got those quotations yet, and they are now strangely quiet :rolleyes: (muslims are good at giving the mouth, but when the tables turn they quite simply fall apart)
    Sounds somewhat like my experiences of dealing with scientologists
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    Its funny how people looka t the irregularities in another persons culture while simultaneously ignoring their own.
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    (Original post by mathperson)
    And another thing, I was having a conversation with two muslims yesterday who were basically saying that islam doesn't treat women as second class citizens, and as usual they wanted quotes from the quran as proof that it does. Well................I gave them 4 or 5 quotations including verses and even page numbers. I then asked for quotations to proove that islam doesn't treat women this way. They danced around the issue for a few hours and tried changing the subject (as usual) but I still havn't got those quotations yet, and they are now strangely quiet :rolleyes: (muslims are good at giving the mouth, but when the tables turn they quite simply fall apart)
    QURAN:

    O you who believe! it is not lawful for you that you should take women as heritage against (their) will, and do not straiten them in order that you may take part of what you have given them, unless they are guilty of manifest indecency, and treat them kindly; then if you hate them, it may be that you dislike a thing while Allah has placed abundant good in it. 19-4


    And do not covet that by which Allah has made some of you excel others; men shall have the benefit of what they earn and women shall have the benefit of what they earn; and ask Allah of His grace; surely Allah knows all things.32-4


    And (as for) the believing men and the believing women, they are guardians of each other; they enjoin good and forbid evil and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, and obey Allah and His Apostle; (as for) these, Allah will show mercy to them; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise. 71-7


    And those who accuse free women then do not bring four witnesses, flog them, (giving) eighty stripes, and do not admit any evidence from them ever; and these it is that are the transgressors. 4-42

    HADITH:

    1)Narrated by Abdullah ibn Abbas: A virgin came to the Prophet and mentioned that her father had married her to a man against her will, so the Prophet allowed her to exercise her choice.

    Another hadith asserts this point.

    Narrated by Abdullah ibn Abbas:

    The Prophet said: A guardian has no concern with a woman previously married and has no husband, and a virgin must be consulted. (Book 5, Number 2095: Abu Dawud)


    2) man came to Allah's Messenger and said: O Messenger of Allah! Who from amongst mankind warrants the best companionship from me? He replied: "Your mother." The man asked: Then who? So he replied: "Your mother". The man then asked: Then who? So the Prophet replied again: "Your mother." The man then asked: then who? So he replied: "Then your father." So this necessitates that the mother is given three times the likes of kindness and good treatment then the father. [2]
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    (Original post by In2deep)
    QURAN:

    O you who believe! it is not lawful for you that you should take women as heritage against (their) will, and do not straiten them in order that you may take part of what you have given them, unless they are guilty of manifest indecency, and treat them kindly; then if you hate them, it may be that you dislike a thing while Allah has placed abundant good in it. 19-4


    And do not covet that by which Allah has made some of you excel others; men shall have the benefit of what they earn and women shall have the benefit of what they earn; and ask Allah of His grace; surely Allah knows all things.32-4

    And (as for) the believing men and the believing women, they are guardians of each other; they enjoin good and forbid evil and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, and obey Allah and His Apostle; (as for) these, Allah will show mercy to them; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise. 71-7


    And those who accuse free women then do not bring four witnesses, flog them, (giving) eighty stripes, and do not admit any evidence from them ever; and these it is that are the transgressors. 4-42

    HADITH:

    1)Narrated by Abdullah ibn Abbas: A virgin came to the Prophet and mentioned that her father had married her to a man against her will, so the Prophet allowed her to exercise her choice.

    Another hadith asserts this point.

    Narrated by Abdullah ibn Abbas:

    The Prophet said: A guardian has no concern with a woman previously married and has no husband, and a virgin must be consulted. (Book 5, Number 2095: Abu Dawud)


    2) man came to Allah's Messenger and said: O Messenger of Allah! Who from amongst mankind warrants the best companionship from me? He replied: "Your mother." The man asked: Then who? So he replied: "Your mother". The man then asked: Then who? So the Prophet replied again: "Your mother." The man then asked: then who? So he replied: "Then your father." So this necessitates that the mother is given three times the likes of kindness and good treatment then the father. [2]
    well they are nice 'quotes' you have given me (I havn't checked them yet though) but they are a bit vague, how about the ones in my sig?
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    (Original post by ahnaf.c)
    once again to break it down in simpler terms- Those people have been given no authoritative powers by the state. Everyone has simply ignored the fact that the british newspaper or that particular journalist who covered the story left it incomplete (almost intentionally)

    I would say some of those people belong to mental asylums and some should be in prison.
    I never said the state had given them powers, only allowed them powers. If in that situation, you cannot just call the police and have everyone responsible arrested then the country you live in has a real problem. And frankly, if a community thinks this is the right thing to do, then there are social and cultural problems which need to be solved. If these religious elders have been given no power by the state, then the state should be stopping them from doing this sort of thing.
    I am not disputing the fact that the culture in Bangladesh is also the problem here, but whether it is the culture or the religion which causes people to do such things it is the job of the state to prevent it.

    (Original post by ahnaf.c)
    I stand by to what I said. In order to understand the (original) Quran, you need to learn Arabic. But, to understand a translation (of a particular interpretation) you don't.

    Your level of ignorance is frankly quite shocking.
    Have you even read the posts in this page, let alone the previous ones?
    Here's one of my previous posts:
    Don't call me ignorant just because you say one thing when you meant another. Obviously to understand the Quran written in Arabic you need to be able to read Arabic. Nobody disputes that, it is blatantly clear. There are lots of books that weren't originally written in English, but we don't refer to them all as "The English translation of X", we just call them "X". All I ever came to do was dispute what you wrote which was that someone must be able to read Arabic to understand the Quran, because I think it can be understood via a translation instead.
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    (Original post by mathperson)
    well they are nice 'quotes' you have given me (I havn't checked them yet though) but they are a bit vague, how about the ones in my sig?
    Concerning your first quote, this is the actual verse:

    Divorced women shall wait concerning themselves for three monthly periods. Nor is it lawful for them to hide what Allah Hath created in their wombs, if they have faith in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them. And Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.

    It is important that the underlined part is not taken out of context, the verse is talking about divorce.


    Concerning your second quote, I think you should read this:

    http://www.themodernreligion.com/wom...4-shafaat.html



    Quran:
    "And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquility with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are Signs for those who reflect." (Quran: Ar-Rum 21)

    Hadith:

    "Could any of you beat your wife as he would a slave, and then lie with her in the evening? "[Bukhari, Muslim](several authorities)

    "Never beat God's handmaidens." [Abu Dawud, Al-Nasai, Ibn Majah and Ahmad]





    Please have the decency to admit you are taking things out of context, contrary to popular belief, Islam isn't a religion against women. Women are supposed to be held in the highest esteem in Islam but unfortunately cultures have damaged that image. Every fault a Muslim commits, it's straight away blamed on Islam.

    You say you "hate Islam", that automatically makes you an extremist just like those terrorists that say they "hate the West".

    I think it's better now if you change your sig
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    (Original post by In2deep)
    Concerning your first quote, this is the actual verse:

    Divorced women shall wait concerning themselves for three monthly periods. Nor is it lawful for them to hide what Allah Hath created in their wombs, if they have faith in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them. And Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.

    It is important that the underlined part is not taken out of context, the verse is talking about divorce.


    Concerning your second quote, I think you should read this:

    http://www.themodernreligion.com/wom...4-shafaat.html



    Quran:
    "And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquility with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are Signs for those who reflect." (Quran: Ar-Rum 21)

    Hadith:

    "Could any of you beat your wife as he would a slave, and then lie with her in the evening? "[Bukhari, Muslim](several authorities)

    "Never beat God's handmaidens." [Abu Dawud, Al-Nasai, Ibn Majah and Ahmad]





    Please have the decency to admit you are taking things out of context, contrary to popular belief, Islam isn't a religion against women. Women are supposed to be held in the highest esteem in Islam but unfortunately cultures have damaged that image. Every fault a Muslim commits, it's straight away blamed on Islam.

    You say you "hate Islam", that automatically makes you an extremist just like those terrorists that say they "hate the West".

    I think it's better now if you change your sig
    Thanks for the reply, I have been asleep and have not had the opportunity to reply sooner.
    I have not checked those 'quotations', however if this is what the quran says, why do we hear horrendous stories of islam/muslims treating women badly, like the 101 lashings thing?
    And, to be honest, rumours don't come from no-where, and this stuff about islam is a bit more than a rumour isn't it...
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    (Original post by mathperson)
    Thanks for the reply, I have been asleep and have not had the opportunity to reply sooner.
    I have not checked those 'quotations', however if this is what the quran says, why do we hear horrendous stories of islam/muslims treating women badly, like the 101 lashings thing?
    And, to be honest, rumours don't come from no-where, and this stuff about islam is a bit more than a rumour isn't it...
    It happens in Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Pakistan, Somalia..I can go on forever, the simple reason is people are not religious and do not know Islamic jurisprudence. There isn't a single country which follows Sharia law (Saudi Arabia has a pick and choose system to benefit their Monarchy/dictatorship and don't even get me started on Iran).

    You hear horrendous stories all of the Muslim world but all slightly different because their actually based on their respective cultures and not Islam.

    For example:

    1) Girls are kidnapped in Turkey and raped then returned to their family. Because of the rape, no one will marry her and she is forced to marry the man that raped her to protect her "honour".

    2) In Saudi Arabia, women are seriously regarded as second class citizens and are oppressed, but so are people of different ethnicities. There are Black Saudis that live in the south of the country but are not allowed to take citizenship. The country is sexist and racists and anyone who opposes the leadership is jailed for life. Kings of Saudi Arabia will do anything to stay in power.

    3) Pakistan, Afghanistan and Bangladesh are countries where arranged marriage is the norm and the daughters are forced, usually for financial reasons. There is huge corruption where if the victim takes her case to the court she will almost definitely lose, her family will also pay a heavy price.

    If they actually followed their religion none of the above would happen and in a real Islamic country the kidnapper, the fraudulent leader and the corrupt judge would all be prosecuted.

    People Including Muslims, have to learn to differentiate between culture and religion. I used to ask my parents a lot of philosophical questions, most questioning my faith but I have learned the truth about Islam's law and I'm satisfied that it's not at all what the west perceive it as.
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    (Original post by mathperson)
    I think he's saying that whenever we hear something like this and people start to have a go at muslims/islam, you lot always say that this isn't written in thye quran/this isn't 'true' islam/they don't represent the majority etc. Well there is a fairly large 'minority' who appear to be doing this sort of thing don't you think? Oh and why is it always islam that does stuff like this?
    A Muslim should be honest and not ashamed of his/her beliefs. However, not everything done by Muslims is legislated in Islaam and this incident is an apt example of this.

    Islaam does not do anything, Muslims do.

    What's constitutes a "fairly large minority"?

    Besides, I don't think you are looking for an honest debate since if you did, you wouldn't have your signature as such. I suggest that if you really want to know Islaamic teachings, visit a masjid or an Islaamic bookshop where someone with knowledge can expound such knowledge to you.
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    (Original post by mathperson)
    Thanks for the reply, I have been asleep and have not had the opportunity to reply sooner.
    I have not checked those 'quotations', however if this is what the quran says, why do we hear horrendous stories of islam/muslims treating women badly, like the 101 lashings thing?
    And, to be honest, rumours don't come from no-where, and this stuff about islam is a bit more than a rumour isn't it...
    Why are you constantly repeating the same thing over and over again?
    The problems[like the one in the article] exist due to corruption and a retarded culture, and my previous posts have presented extensive evidence to that effect.

    Why are you then reiterating the same thing over and over again, asking why these problems exist?
    If I remember correctly even the Chinese had this cultural practise of tying up the girls' feet to prevent it from growing. Its a barbaric practise tbh and has proved to have long term health effects on the victims. But is China being blamed as a country, as a whole? No...I wonder why.

    The judicial system in Bangladesh is tremendously distorted with corruption and Transparency International ranked Bangladesh the most corrupt country in the world 6 years in a row. Since 2007, corruption has only slightly decreased.
    Once this police officer came to our house with an arrest warrant against my father while we were abroad. My father sent some of his employees to the police station to find out why. After nearly 2 hours of negotiation and after receiving a bribe of 35,000 Taka, i.e. 312 pounds approx. they agreed to tell us (only) why the arrest warrant was issued. it turned out that 28 years ago my grandfather missed out on paying some property taxes and for this minor offence we faced this problem.

    The killers of the Prime Minister's family were hanged to death only day before yesterday. 34 years after they massacred the current Prime Minister's entire family (a total of 18 people including her father, mother, 8 year old brother, cousins, aunts, uncles, everyone) they were brought to justice. This punishment was only possible because she was in office, everytime the opposition came to power, they dismissed the case. 6 of the killers are still absconding btw. These killers received awards as national heroes and bragged about the killings, claiming responsibility during interviews
    I'm sure Islam is to blame for all of this :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by mathperson)
    well they are nice 'quotes' you have given me (I havn't checked them yet though) but they are a bit vague, how about the ones in my sig?

    What about the ones in your sig?

    Looks about alright to me.
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    (Original post by In2deep)
    It happens in Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Pakistan, Somalia..I can go on forever, the simple reason is people are not religious and do not know Islamic jurisprudence. There isn't a single country which follows Sharia law (Saudi Arabia has a pick and choose system to benefit their Monarchy/dictatorship and don't even get me started on Iran).

    You hear horrendous stories all of the Muslim world but all slightly different because their actually based on their respective cultures and not Islam.

    For example:

    1) Girls are kidnapped in Turkey and raped then returned to their family. Because of the rape, no one will marry her and she is forced to marry the man that raped her to protect her "honour".

    2) In Saudi Arabia, women are seriously regarded as second class citizens and are oppressed, but so are people of different ethnicities. There are Black Saudis that live in the south of the country but are not allowed to take citizenship. The country is sexist and racists and anyone who opposes the leadership is jailed for life. Kings of Saudi Arabia will do anything to stay in power.

    3) Pakistan, Afghanistan and Bangladesh are countries where arranged marriage is the norm and the daughters are forced, usually for financial reasons. There is huge corruption where if the victim takes her case to the court she will almost definitely lose, her family will also pay a heavy price.

    If they actually followed their religion none of the above would happen and in a real Islamic country the kidnapper, the fraudulent leader and the corrupt judge would all be prosecuted.

    People Including Muslims, have to learn to differentiate between culture and religion. I used to ask my parents a lot of philosophical questions, most questioning my faith but I have learned the truth about Islam's law and I'm satisfied that it's not at all what the west perceive it as.
    *******...Rape or any other things happen with usual rate like in any other countries for Turkey.
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    (Original post by Helluin)
    *******...Rape or any other things happen with usual rate like in any other countries for Turkey.
    Citing study after study it suggests that the level of violence against women here is considerably higher than around the world, he says.

    It is says at least a third and possibly up to 50% have suffered violence.
    Examples include a man strangling his own daughter because she has been raped and a judge reducing a rapist's sentence when he promises to marry his victim.
    The report is filled with accounts of young women forced into marriage, or everyday violence, of an environment of intimidation and, at its worst, of so-called "honour killings," where family members kill women who have had extra-marital relationships or who have been raped.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3768847.stm

    Stop being a blind nationalist and read the facts. I was in no way attacking Turkey, I have a lot of respect for Turkey and especially Erdoğan but the truth is that such happenings do occur in the Muslim world.
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    (Original post by In2deep)
    Citing study after study it suggests that the level of violence against women here is considerably higher than around the world, he says.

    It is says at least a third and possibly up to 50% have suffered violence.
    Examples include a man strangling his own daughter because she has been raped and a judge reducing a rapist's sentence when he promises to marry his victim.
    The report is filled with accounts of young women forced into marriage, or everyday violence, of an environment of intimidation and, at its worst, of so-called "honour killings," where family members kill women who have had extra-marital relationships or who have been raped.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3768847.stm

    Stop being a blind nationalist and read the facts. I was in no way attacking Turkey, I have a lot of respect for Turkey and especially Erdoğan but the truth is that such happenings do occur in the Muslim world.
    Im not blind nationalist but I live in Turkey and not saying it doesnt exist,just happens in usual rate.I know my country better than these foreign researchers.
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    Let's think of it this way.

    If this were some western nonmuslim country (not some western muslim country), we would have seen a massive orgy organized and supported by the neighbours as well as the state which various media outlets would have publicized.

    In the end, the "victim" would not count her experience as an ordeal and that would be just another ordinary day in the life of westerners.
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    (Original post by maths-enthusiast)
    Let's think of it this way.

    If this were some western nonmuslim country (not some western muslim country), we would have seen a massive orgy organized and supported by the neighbours as well as the state which various media outlets would have publicized.

    In the end, the "victim" would not count her experience as an ordeal and that would be just another ordinary day in the life of westerners.
    Just to be clear, you do mean getting pregnant from being raped?
 
 
 
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