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Should the government have the right to control homosexual and transexual clergy? watch

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    (Original post by DJ AgnieszkaA)
    should the government be able to interfere in a privately run institution?
    no, it most certainly should not.

    imo the government should have no say in any sort of employment, except when employment in question is by the state.
    How is the CoE privately run?
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    (Original post by Quady)
    How is the CoE privately run?
    simple - its not publicly run.
    the government doesnt control it.
    ...
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    (Original post by DJ AgnieszkaA)
    simple - its not publicly run.
    the government doesnt control it.
    ...
    Apart from Gordon Brown chooses its head.
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    Only if:

    -the Labour party are willing to be forced to accept Conservative activists to work in their election campagin offices

    - Gay pressure groups are fine with the idea of being forced to take on Evangelical Christians and Fundamentalist Muslims who disagree with gay rights in a capicity where they can dictate internal policy

    - They force the church to take atheists, muslims and Devil worshipers on as priests

    - The members of parliment who aren't christians stop making their other half's go to church so they can send their kids to the high performing church schools

    - The security services are forced to take terrorists on for "diversity"

    - Gordan Brown gos into Saudi or Iran and tells the Islamic clerics that they should take on gay Imams... and tries to force them
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Apart from Gordon Brown chooses its head.
    ******* idiot!

    So Gordon Brown decided that dear old Liz could be Queen did he :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Apart from Gordon Brown chooses its head.
    the monarch is the head... do you have some sort of syndrome?
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    no they shouldn't force it upon them, it's their choice whether they want to allow them or not and shouldn't be forced into having them just to try and do the bs which is equality etc
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    (Original post by Labayu)
    ******* idiot!

    So Gordon Brown decided that dear old Liz could be Queen did he :rolleyes:
    As wiki says...

    'The British monarch, at present Queen Elizabeth II, has the constitutional title of Supreme Governor of the Church of England. The canon law of the Church of England states, "We acknowledge that the Queen’s most excellent Majesty, acting according to the laws of the realm, is the highest power under God in this kingdom, and has supreme authority over all persons in all causes, as well ecclesiastical as civil." In practice this power is often exercised through Parliament and the Prime Minister.'

    Next you'll be suggesting Liz decides who her PM and the cabinet are...
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    (Original post by DJ AgnieszkaA)
    the monarch is the head... do you have some sort of syndrome?
    Yes and the Queen brought in all the anti terrorism legislation and all the equality bills didn't she.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    As wiki says...

    'The British monarch, at present Queen Elizabeth II, has the constitutional title of Supreme Governor of the Church of England. The canon law of the Church of England states, "We acknowledge that the Queen’s most excellent Majesty, acting according to the laws of the realm, is the highest power under God in this kingdom, and has supreme authority over all persons in all causes, as well ecclesiastical as civil." In practice this power is often exercised through Parliament and the Prime Minister.'

    Next you'll be suggesting Liz decides who her PM and the cabinet are...
    So your well thought out argument is that when you said "the Prime Minister chooses the head of the church of england" you meant that the prime minister is the defacto head of the church?

    In which case you believe that Gordan Brown chose to elect Gordon Brown to be prime minister?

    Either you are retarded, drunk or Gordon Brown!
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    (Original post by Labayu)
    In which case you believe that Gordan Brown chose to elect Gordon Brown to be prime minister?

    Either you are retarded, drunk or Gordon Brown!
    Drunk, its Burns night...

    Nobody elected Brown PM, Liz invited him to form a Govt.

    She could have asked Alistair Darling, George Galloway... Iain Duncan Smith...
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Yes and the Queen brought in all the anti terrorism legislation and all the equality bills didn't she.
    wtf are you on about, what does passing acts have anything to do with running an institution?
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    (Original post by DJ AgnieszkaA)
    wtf are you on about, what does passing acts have anything to do with running an institution?
    Because all bills are in Lizs name, she signs them all.

    'Bad legislation' by Brown, Blair, Major, Thatcher is Liz's responsibly an equal amount as installing a 'bad archbishop' under those terms.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Because all bills are in Lizs name, she signs them all.

    'Bad legislation' by Brown, Blair, Major, Thatcher is Liz's responsibly an equal amount as installing a 'bad archbishop' under those terms.
    you chat pure ****.
    her work in government is seperate from her role as head of the CofE.
    understand!?!?
    the monarch running an institution doesnt make it public - the monarch owns a lot privately
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    Not to mention the fact that she can't very well veto laws passed by parliament on a whim...
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    The church shouldn't be forced. They're a waste of space and time anyway.
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    (Original post by Greens)
    What if the particular church in question opposes gay sex? That would be problematic. It could backfire eg pushing these homophobic religious groups underground.
    What if the church in question opposed black people?

    I don't think there is any place in society for discrimination - whether that be by people, companies or relgious bigots.
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    So can you discriminate in favour of an Englishman applying for a job at a chippy than an Indian? What about the other way round? Actually, don't a lot of Indian restaurants emply Pakistanis?!?
    Maybe you're already aware of this, but yes restaurants can be an exception to discrimination laws. An Indian restaurant can legally hire people who look Indian over people who don't. A chinese restaurant can legally hire chinese people over other people. They're essentially themed restaurants so they're allowed to hire people who fit the theme. But I do wonder what would happen if you tried opening a medieval themed restaurant and refused to hire non-white people. I mean these days no one's even brave enough to make a medieval film without black people.
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    Absolutely mental. Still, the Church has a history of operating quite well underground: if it had to go that way in Britain, so be it - but I suspect it would be electoral suicide for any government to attack religion in this fashion.

    In fact, this is one of those suggestions for extreme constitutional changes that might well raise the possibility of the Sovereign refusing Royal Assent on a Bill. The established Churches rank higher than Parliament in the grand scheme of things.

    (Original post by callum9999)
    What if the church in question opposed black people?

    I don't think there is any place in society for discrimination - whether that be by people, companies or relgious bigots.
    Fine, don't associate with people who discriminate against others. That doesn't give you a right to try and force others by violence to share your views on the matter when they are using their own property and resources in the way they see fit.

    Frankly, what some idiots on here have suggested is the very worst sort of oppressive authoritarian, coloured by all the prejudices of youthful stupidity.
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    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    Doesn't the Church receive state funding?
    The Church receives absolutely NO state funding. It is funded entirely out of private donations.

    (Original post by NDGAARONDI)
    If the Church wish to have the state stop interfering with its affairs then it should request that it be separated. It's no different from Government ministers visiting an Islamic wedding and walking out because of the traditions they don't like.

    As soon as they stop receiving funding from the state (I assume they do) then they can discriminate however they please as far as I'm concerned.
    Great - As the Church doesn't receive state funding, we are agreed that they can discriminate.

    (Original post by Nick_000)
    If the church is allowed to discriminate against homosexuals then I hope that in my future business endeavours I will be allowed to reject potential employees if they are Catholic, Christian or Muslim
    Nope. That violates a number of laws.

    It violates equality acts, religious hatred acts, and the human rights act.
 
 
 
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