The Student Room Group

Capicitor Discharge Curve (URGENT!)

This question is in the sample paper for edexcel unit 4 physics:

(a) A 2200 μF capacitor is charged to a potential difference of 12 V and then discharged through an electric motor. The motor lifts a 50 g mass through a height of 24 cm.
(b) The capacitor is charged to 12 V again and then discharged through a 16 ohm resistor.
(i) Show that the time constant for this discharge is approximately 35 ms.

done

(ii) Sketch a graph of current against time for this discharge on the grid below. You should indicate the current at t = 0 and t = 35 ms.


I can't seem to do this! I know the shape, but the values they give us in the m/s aren't the same as what I get, why?
What values do you get?
Initial current at start of graph = V/R (V is initial pd on capacitor=12V)
Current after 35ms is V/R where V is pd after 35ms. This V is 0.37 times the start value.
Reply 2
Stonebridge
What values do you get?
Initial current at start of graph = V/R (V is initial pd on capacitor=12V)
Current after 35ms is V/R where V is pd after 35ms. This V is 0.37 times the start value.


I get 750ms for the initial current. The markscheme uses 1.6V for some reason instead of 12V - any idea why?
How do you know that the V is 0.37 times the start value?
Reply 3
I recognise this question. I spoke to my physics teacher about it, and it turns out the markscheme is wrong.

V = IR, I = V/R which means 12V/16 = 0.75 A

The initial value is 750mA and the current at the time constant is around 275mA. you know the graph shape
Reply 4
DeyTa
I recognise this question. I spoke to my physics teacher about it, and it turns out the markscheme is wrong.

V = IR, I = V/R which means 12V/16 = 0.75 A

The initial value is 750mA and the current at the time constant is around 275mA. you know the graph shape


That would make so much sense! :smile:
Thank you!

Although I don't get what you mean by the time constant being around 275mA? don't you mean that the current at 35ms is around 275mA?
Reply 5
unamed

How do you know that the V is 0.37 times the start value?


Because the graph is a reverse exponential graph, and according to the equation It = Io x e^(- time/time constant), at the time where t = time constant, it becomes It = Io x e^-1, which is the same as multiplying by 1/e, which is approximately 0.368.

Io is the initial current, which we now know to be 750mA,

So current at the time constant = 750 x 1/e = 750 x 0.368 = 276mA

I'll see if i can upload a graph
Reply 6
DeyTa
Because the graph is a reverse exponential graph, and according to the equation It = Io x e^(- time/time constant), at the time where t = time constant, it becomes It = Io x e^-1, which is the same as multiplying by 1/e, which is approximately 0.368.

Io is the initial current, which we now know to be 750mA,

So current at the time constant = 750 x 1/e = 750 x 0.368 = 276mA

I'll see if i can upload a graph


Oh, I understand now! :biggrin: thank you.
Reply 7
just in case :P as you can see my MS Paint skills are exquisite

attachment below (i hope)
Reply 8
DeyTa
just in case :P as you can see my MS Paint skills are exquisite

attachment below (i hope)


That's actually I good graph - considering your software! :p:
Are you ready for the exam tomorrow? :eek:
Reply 9
unamed
Are you ready for the exam tomorrow? :eek:


I guess I'm pretty ready, although I still get a bit confused about electromagnetic induction sometimes :s-smilie: As it turns out, the explanation for electromagnetic induction is just a model! So we might actually be learning wrong stuff hehe

good luck!
Reply 10
DeyTa
I guess I'm pretty ready, although I still get a bit confused about electromagnetic induction sometimes :s-smilie: As it turns out, the explanation for electromagnetic induction is just a model! So we might actually be learning wrong stuff hehe

good luck!


I hope electromagnetism doesn't come up at all - I hate it with a passion. I'd be much happier with particle physics - after all, for all we know, it might be wrong! :p:

you too!
Reply 11
It's the same as charging mate, for current anyway. (exponential decline)
Reply 12
Hi guys tomorrow i am having both phy4 and phy5 :s-smilie:
Reply 13
for this type of question, would you estimate the value of I when time is 35ms using the graph or do an actual working and multiply 750ms by 1/e?
Reply 14
Kameo
for this type of question, would you estimate the value of I when time is 35ms using the graph or do an actual working and multiply 750ms by 1/e?


well, considering we need the value to make the graph - you work it out. If they give us the graph, then it makes sense to use the graph.
Reply 15
Original post by unamed
That would make so much sense! :smile:
Thank you!

Although I don't get what you mean by the time constant being around 275mA? don't you mean that the current at 35ms is around 275mA?


Graph I vs t , where I is calibrated as 0, 20, 40, 60 .. should be calibrated as 0, 200,400,600 ..
and then all is well.
Original post by Avner
Graph I vs t , where I is calibrated as 0, 20, 40, 60 .. should be calibrated as 0, 200,400,600 ..
and then all is well.


All is well indeed... aside from the fact that you are a decade late.
Reply 17
So sorry. Could you please direct me to a previous constructive resolution?
Reply 18
to get max current at t=0 we know that it is equal to initial charge Q over ( resistance of resistor multiply capacitance i.e. time constant ) and i can get Q from energy stored in capacitor E= 0.5 multiply QV. so on calculating current in this way i got answer of 106 mA......hope it helps though i saw the markscheme and they did 1.6 v over 16 ohms which i didnot understand..