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    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    I think he's just referring to the general fact that the veil is an misogynistic invention used to oppress women.
    Oh i see, me being slow and dim then!
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    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    I think he's just referring to the general fact that the veil is an misogynistic invention used to oppress women.
    The veil has it's origins amongst the aristocratic women of ancient Babylon possibly Sumer. It wasn't invented to oppress women.

    (Original post by gbduo)
    Since when were we talking about Pakistan? I thought we were talking about France and Britain banning the burka?

    What a third world country does to its women is completely irrelevant to the topic. It is truly shocking though.
    That post is nonsense. The Burkha has been in decline in rural Pakistan since independence. The only people who have forced women into wearing the veil are militant groups at war with the Pakistani government.

    Shocking? Yes. Indicative? Certainly not.
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    (Original post by EthnicScot)
    The way pakistanis treat women who refuse to the veil is enough to ban this ridiulous garbage bag here in Europe.
    Islamic prctices such as the full viel should not be tolerated. If women want to wear please feel free to catch the next plane to pakistan.
    I think there should be a serious debate over the veil within British society to see how people feel about it. Personally I feel uneasy when I see a women in it merely because you are so used to seeing someones face in Western society it is just somewhat, whoa! If that makes sense. I think banning it because western society thinks it is 'garbage' is somewhat of a knee jerk reaction. Although Britain has definitely been guilty of this in the past!!

    I don't agree with the emboldened bit. Tolerance is a British value we have held dear for over 2 centuries, we should not stop now.
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    (Original post by Liptease)
    The veil has it's origins amongst the aristocratic women of ancient Babylon possibly Sumer. It wasn't invented to oppress women.
    Alright I can correct it.

    The veil is an misogynistic thing used to oppress women.
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    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    Alright I can correct it.

    The veil is an misogynistic thing used to oppress women.
    The veil isn't misogynistic. It's just a piece of cloth.

    Many of the societies in the region where it emanates are misogynistic. Addressing the quality of life of women; education, economic independence, basic freedoms, social participation are all infinitely more valuable in helping women progress han dealing with a piece of cloth. That's true whether we are discussing Saudi, England, or France.

    Their just not as "sexy" or populist subjects, not to mention a lot more difficult to deal with than the veil.
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    (Original post by gbduo)
    I think there should be a serious debate over the veil within British society to see how people feel about it. Personally I feel uneasy when I see a women in it merely because you are so used to seeing someones face in Western society it is just somewhat, whoa! If that makes sense. I think banning it because western society thinks it is 'garbage' is somewhat of a knee jerk reaction. Although Britain has definitely been guilty of this in the past!!

    I don't agree with the emboldened bit. Tolerance is a British value we have held dear for over 2 centuries, we should not stop now.
    It is NOT a value that Muslims reciprocate. It is a value that has caused an explosion in third world crime and violence. Islamic fundementalism, the permenant chnge of britains culture and demography.

    You well know the recently released statistics that every rape in oslo was comitted by a thrid worlder and you know that the vast majority of rape cses in sweden are comitted by muslims who begged the swedes to protect them and give them asylum.

    Tolerance makes Britain good place for ethnics and muslims and it makes britain a horrible place for me and my future children.
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    No it's completly irational, people can wear whatever they want. You wouldn't tell a goth that they have to 'integrate.'

    But you also probably wouldn't hire someone dressed like a goth which makes sense for people wearing face veils too, especially like others have said in schools etc. I wouldn't say it should be illegal though, but the schools/ companys can be againstit in dress codes if they wish.
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    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    Alright I can correct it.

    The veil is an misogynistic thing used to oppress women.
    Mny people would argue slutty clothes are a misogynistic 'things' used to objectify women. Doesn't mean they should be outlawed.
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    Not only should the veil be banned, but Islam should be banned. In fact, religion should be banned, for the same reasons. It adds nothing to British society, it takes LOTS from British society, and it devalues people's minds and efforts to drive society forward and not backward.
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    (Original post by Liptease)
    The veil isn't misogynistic. It's just a piece of cloth.

    Many of the societies in the region where it emanates are misogynistic. Addressing the quality of life of women; education, economic independence, basic freedoms, social participation are all infinitely more valuable in helping women progress han dealing with a piece of cloth. That's true whether we are discussing Saudi, England, or France.

    Their just not as "sexy" or populist subjects, not to mention a lot more difficult to deal with than the veil.
    If a misogynistic society requires that women wear a veil and punish them if they don't, common logic tells us that they're using it for misogynistic purposes. It's just another law to keep them subjugated if they'll be abused for showing their faces. It doesn't matter if the concept of a veil is misogynistic, it has become just that through its function.

    (Original post by Natasha_c)
    Mny people would argue slutty clothes are a misogynistic 'things' used to objectify women. Doesn't mean they should be outlawed.
    They do objectify women. But nobody forces women to wear slutty clothes.

    (Original post by Phugoid)
    Not only should the veil be banned, but Islam should be banned. In fact, religion should be banned, for the same reasons. It adds nothing to British society, it takes LOTS from British society, and it devalues people's minds and efforts to drive society forward and not backward.
    Funny, I always thought freedom of thought added something to British society.
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    (Original post by MaceyThe)
    I don't think this is the case.
    It say's women should dress modestly, and cover their bosom, but I'm not aware of there being any command in the Qur'an saying explicitly that a woman should cover her face. In fact, doesn't it say that the hair and the body should be covered except the hands and the face?!....

    The face of a woman being considered "Awrah," and the covering of it being obligatory, was coined by medieval Hadith collectors around 200 years after the Qur'an was written, and has since become more of a cultural thing.
    And so - even in the 21st century - Saudi Arabian alleged "scholars" (i.e. fraudsters,) are justifying telling YOU how YOU should live, dress, and behave, by referring to medieval Hadith collections, and ambiguous passages in the Qur'an that they can interpret to suit them.

    And you're buying it!!:redface:

    To roughly quote the Prophet Pat Condell here:
    "If God wanted you to cover your face, do you not think, in his wisdom, he would have given you a flap of skin for the purpose?"



    From a liberty-preserving point of view, it's time to start challenging and scrutinizing this ideology (along with other religions that have so much grip over peoples lives,) in open debate, and within a short time it'd be exposed as a myth, and this ridiculous garment laughed off the planet.

    Then we would all be more free.

    I don't want to see it banned, I think it would be un-policable (is that a word?!) a waste of police time, and it's not how we do things in Britain. But come on.....
    the texts are not misinterpreted. End Quote, its just you misinterpreting them,
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    Look at this -

    I think it is disgusting, this looks seriously wrong and terrifying, it is something straight out of some post apocolyptic horror film



    Please ban this from Europe.
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    I think of how islam sees veils and how women are seen within islam is irrelevant here. I think at the end of the day, the culture of the land should be embraced, and that is one, in which covering up a face says more about mannors and communication rather than status (weather rightly so or not). I wouldnt get 5 minutes down the road wearing a balaclava, people covering up their faces in a non religeous context isnt generally acceptable, a young man or woman wearing a skarf around the face walking into a shop, for example, so why should it be elsewhere?

    as much as I say this, before people get on the high one, racist this and discriminating that, I think its the logical thing, I personally couldnt care less as I don't think it matters either way.
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    (Original post by EthnicScot)
    Look at this -

    I think it is disgusting, this looks seriously wrong and terrifying, it is something straight out of some post apocolyptic horror film



    Please ban this from Europe.
    Uh oh. I can see a pair of eyes on the top left and it's making me lust.

    AHHH ALGEBRA, ALGEBRA, ALGEBRA.
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    I 100% agree that it should be banned, I just feel over in England that something like that is just not acceptable as in many cases it can scare people (I have been with a fair few people who have felt scared by them before). This is just my opinion though and I know that our country wouldn't have the bottle to completey ban it unfortunately.
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    (Original post by Liptease)
    Errh, perhaps because their not Sunni. Their a modern movement which rejects the supremacy of the four traditional Madhabs, and have very different beliefs from Sunni Muslims.

    And I know who the Salafi were. The question is. Do you? Wahabi have nothing to do with the original Salafis. Just because they use the same name doesn't make it so.

    I suggest you read up about what they actually believe and who they are before swinging into their rescue.
    Why dont read into it first!
    http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/10867/wahabi

    One of Allah's (Subhana Wa Ta Ala) names is Al-Wahhab so you are therefore taking insult one of Allah's most beautiful and perfect names!

    And yes the terminology Wahabi was made up by the enemies of Islam, they oppose people practising Islamic Monotheism
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    (Original post by Phugoid)
    Not only should the veil be banned, but Islam should be banned. In fact, religion should be banned, for the same reasons. It adds nothing to British society, it takes LOTS from British society, and it devalues people's minds and efforts to drive society forward and not backward.
    How pol pot of you :holmes:
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    (Original post by EthnicScot)
    Look at this -

    I think it is disgusting, this looks seriously wrong and terrifying, it is something straight out of some post apocolyptic horror film



    Please ban this from Europe.
    If these women do not have a problem with wearing it, why do you?
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    (Original post by Diaz)
    If these women do not have a problem with wearing it, why do you?
    Well they're probably pretty damn hot under there.

    One has to wonder why they feel the need to wear it, though. Is it because they just want to? Probably not.
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    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    Well they're probably pretty damn hot under there.

    One has to wonder why they feel the need to wear it, though. Is it because they just want to? Probably not.
    I agree its a bit extreme, but they're are practicing what they believe. Why else would they wear it if they didn't want to?
 
 
 
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