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    (Original post by Wesssty)
    What if it's cold, like really cold.
    LOL legend! Good point, I mean you have to look at this from a practical as well as a religious point of view.

    Honestly though, I think if they want to wear their veils, they should do so in their own country. If we were to go to an Arab country in tee shirt and shorts, they would go crazy. In this country we can be too accepting in society.
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    (Original post by Primordial Soup)
    I think that this issue is indescribably hypocritical. The argument that a veil, a piece of clothing worn to cover the bodies of women, is demeaning to women is IRRELEVANT if it is worn out of choice If a woman chooses to wear something from their own free will then how can a third party comment in a disparaging way? The ideals and beliefs that veiled women hold, perhaps are different to your own and where you believe it is demeaning she finds it to be empowering. It could be likened to the sexual promiscuity&feminism argument where one woman may find it demeaning to have sex with a plethora of men whilst another woman may find it empowering. Does that mean we should ban sex because of it?

    To say that a veil does not belong to British society, is very obtuse also. As the Muslim population undoubtably have shaped society to some extent (as all immigrants do to an extent), therefore should this not just be accepted as a change? If throughout history we resisted any form of change to our surroundings, we would be still living in huts and hunting for food. Why not encourage integration in a way which allows people to remain comfortable, thus allowing cohesion of religion and culture.

    Britain is involved in 2 wars to "promote democracy" across the world. The ability to decide to wear what you want would fall under this acclaimed democracy, no?

    Whilst the proposal to BAN the veil seems ludicrous to me, I do believe however, that in certain situations, allowances must be made by the veiled women. Primary school teachers, at airport security etc etc where communication is key then I believe the veiled should be discouraged.
    How exactly have they shaped british society? And using your point ( as western society has shaped muslim societies even more so) it should mean that western women shouldn't be forced by some muslim states/countries to wear headscarves and other unwanted clothing. I believe in fairness. If muslim women want us to allow them to dress how they want in our countries then WE should also be allowed to dress how we want in their countries. For goodness sake, saudi arabia prevents many non muslims from entering their country for the sole reason that they are not muslim. Is this fairness/democracy?
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    (Original post by Rizwani)
    unfortunately you spoke without any knowledge, so now you know what a Wahabi is, they dont exist. End Quote
    Go to Saudi their a nation of Wahabi. They exist unfortunately.
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    (Original post by saab_101)
    I've never met a muslim woman who was forced to wear the veil. Every single one has voluntarily started it, and I actually no considerably mroe muslim men than women who are opposed to it and feel uncomfortable at their wife's (or sister's/daughter's/other female relation's lol) decision to wear it

    And are you seriously saying that only things that are part of British heritage should be tolerated in this country? Sounds a bit extreme to me tbh.
    You surely can't believe that just because the people in your inner circle ( out of the MILLIONS of muslim women in the world) are not forced to wear it means that others are not forced. That's like me saying that I don't know any women who have been raped, therefore it's fine to assume that no women anywhere else are raped.
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    (Original post by Liptease)
    Go to Saudi their a nation of Wahabi. They exist unfortunately.
    theres no point bothering with you, ive explained that wahabis dont exist rather it is a label given to some muslims. End Quote
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    (Original post by EthnicScot)
    I am not defining Britains indugenous culture, I am asked to do this all the time by proponants of multiculturalism. It is far more complex thn the simpleton example you gave.

    I dont care whether your culture interferes with mine or not. Or prevents me from practicing it. I dont want to live in country that resembles islamic culture, pakistani culture, african culture.

    I dont want to live in a multi ethnic hellhole. I want to live with my own people in my own ancestral homeland. And this is no different to what indians want or the chinese want.

    the difference is that I m white and becuse of this it makes me rcist that I dont want to share my own country, with the rest of the third world.
    So you cannot define indigenous culture? Morris dancing? Cricket? Renditions of Shakespeare? Bowling? Protestantism (or is it Roman Catholicism)? Stiff upper lip? Binge drinking? Sexual prudishness?

    Go on... tell me what this indigenous, mutually exclusive culture is?! (or can't you?)

    Unfortunately you are not permitted to regulate the foods which people eat, the names by which they address themselves, the clothes that they wear in public, the gods/lack of gods they worship, the music they listen to, the sports they play, the books they read, etc, etc. We live in a liberal democracy.

    Islam is a religion. Pakistan is a country (albeit a very new one!) and Africa is a continent. What the **** is African culture? How on earth is it possible to reliably define African culture when it's a huge continent with over a billion people living there.

    You have also confused 'ethnicity' with 'culture'. Many ethnically English people have wildly different cultures. Weren't you aware of this?

    Do you see a problem with multiethnic boroughs? I live in one. I can't see what the issue is. Belgravia is a pretty multiethnic place and land values there are the highest in the UK. Most of the most profitable companies per head/employee in the City of London (and by default the UK) have an international, multiethnic workforce.

    Who is preventing you from living with your 'people' in your 'homeland'? Has somebody forcibly removed you?

    Indians and Chinese people do not constitute an ethnic group. India and China both are VERY multiethnic, multicultural, multireligious and multilingual societies.
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    (Original post by Liptease)
    Go to Saudi their a nation of Wahabi. They exist unfortunately.
    Forget Saudi. TSR is full of them.
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    (Original post by jah2411)
    LOL legend! Good point, I mean you have to look at this from a practical as well as a religious point of view.

    Honestly though, I think if they want to wear their veils, they should do so in their own country. If we were to go to an Arab country in tee shirt and shorts, they would go crazy. In this country we can be too accepting in society.
    Oh really? Apart from Saudi Arabia, I can't think of many Arab nations where the LAW would come down on you. Granted, there may be people who frown on it, but then there are people who would frown on a man running down the street in the UK in boxer shorts. Of course, running down the street in boxer shorts in the UK ISN'T ILLEGAL, though most people may find it unacceptable.
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    (Original post by MaceyThe)
    There's clear orders to kill homosexuals in the Bible, but we've banned that.....
    And there's nothing in the Qur'an about wearing a burka.
    Christians don't believe in killing homosexuals.
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    (Original post by effofex)
    Oh really? Apart from Saudi Arabia, I can't think of many Arab nations where the LAW would come down on you. Granted, there may be people who frown on it, but then there are people who would frown on a man running down the street in the UK in boxer shorts. Of course, running down the street in boxer shorts in the UK ISN'T ILLEGAL, though most people may find it unacceptable.
    Sorry mate, you must be a muslim to have taken such offence. As for someone running down the road in boxers, I would laugh out loud. The law in Arab countries may not come down on you, instead you'd be set upon by a lynch mob.
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    (Original post by zaf1991)
    No... Should allowed if the woman wants to wear it. End of.
    I agree that it should be given as a choice, however it kind of takes the pressure of those who are forced by society or family to wear it.
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    (Original post by jah2411)
    Sorry mate, you must be a muslim to have taken such offence. As for someone running down the road in boxers, I would laugh out loud. The law in Arab countries may not come down on you, instead you'd be set upon by a lynch mob.
    No. I'm not a Muslim. None of my immediate family are Islamic. I have lived with Muslims though.

    The fact that a lynch mob may come down on you does not IMPLICATE the law of the country in question. Presumably the law would also say that indecently assaulting someone would be punishable in some way.

    In the UK a Newcastle fan walking round with a Magpies shirt MAY get the cr*p beaten out of him if he is walking round in Toxteth, Liverpool. This doesn't mean the LAW in the UK is to blame for this, does it?

    In my earlier post I was referring specifically to the LAWS of Muslim-majority countries, not the behaviour of intolerant lynch mobs who probably don't really care too much about what the law says.
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    (Original post by jah2411)
    Sorry mate, you must be a muslim to have taken such offence. As for someone running down the road in boxers, I would laugh out loud. The law in Arab countries may not come down on you, instead you'd be set upon by a lynch mob.
    By the way, I went to an Arab country in a t-shirt and shorts.

    Nothing happened to me.
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    (Original post by Rizwani)
    theres no point bothering with you, ive explained that wahabis dont exist rather it is a label given to some muslims. End Quote
    :fyi: Wahabi is a recognised definition employed by a variety of publications for the followers of Ibn Wahab and his distinctive fundamentalist ideology. Whether you refer to them interchangeably as Salafi or Wahabi is pretty irrelevant.

    (Original post by Cinematographic)
    Forget Saudi. TSR is full of them.
    Sadly true.
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    (Original post by Liptease)
    :fyi: Wahabi is a recognised definition employed by a variety of publications for the followers of Ibn Wahab and his distinctive fundamentalist ideology. Whether you refer to them interchangeably as Salafi or Wahabi is pretty irrelevant.


    Sadly true.
    Nope Wahabis dont exist
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    (Original post by effofex)
    By the way, I went to an Arab country in a t-shirt and shorts.

    Nothing happened to me.
    OOH mate, you got balls! Perhaps you were in the popemobile so they couldn't get to you lol.
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    Nope.
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    its upto women wat they wanna do......we r nobody to decide wether muslim women should wear it or not.
    there........end of story
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    (Original post by malik12)
    simply NO,

    I mean lets think about it. Who are we to tell someone what they can and cant wear then claim people have freedom of speach if our government doesnt even allow them to wear something they want to wear, and since when did other peoples cultures and religions become a debating ground open for the input of other people. Its like telling hindus they can no longer wear the bindi (mark on forhead) or telling the jewish community they can no longer grow sideburns or discussing there observing of there dress code in our parliment. ITS simple NOT for us to decide.
    If the government really want to make any dress code laws they should start with women who dress halfnaked and walk down our streets, I mean is there anyone left that remebers the meaning of "Dignity". By all mean blame the government for doing nothing but media plays a big role in making females feel that they only way they would ever find "love" or a relationship is by wearing Mini skirts or shirts which are so exposive. women are objectified in advertising and by the media in general. most adverts targeted for men use a female model. I mean come on the product isnt even used by women, and its these kinda things which forces women into thinking they need to dress like this or men wont come near you.

    I am happy to hear what you think.
    You can't compare sideburns and a dot on the head to someone who conceals their entire body. It is not natural in a normal situation to do this as the body, especially the face is a vital means of communication in human society. Humans are naturally suspicious of what they cannot see and this covering causes problems in security situations as well as giving a message (intended or not) of hostility. There is NO reason why a woman should feel she needs to be bundled up out of sight, cut off from the rest of society with a cloth that must be a burden to day to day life in order to fulfil some arbitary 'modesty' requirement. I also don't like the reasoning behind the burqa. It is fundamentally unfair that muslim men are not subject to this - after all are men exempt from being modest? Religious debates aside, as others have pointed out, there are security issues and social issues that the burqa cause, just as people have to uncover their faces in certain situations, why should muslim women be exempt from this.
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    (Original post by Rizwani)
    Nope Wahabis dont exist
    And Saudi Arabia doesn't exist. Taliban they don't exist either.

    Arabia is a free democratic land which has had two female presidents since independence from Britain.

    Oh what a dream...I'm with you brother!
 
 
 
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