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    (Original post by Drunk Punx)
    Ok, but apparently "God" made us in his image... so surely, regardless of his other aspects, you should share the same viewpoints as him, especially as you openly embrace his love?
    So with reference to that, how do you view Gary Glitter concerning my question?

    And secondly:

    Surely "God" is not forgiving if Hitler and Stalin can't get into heaven? How about Harold Shipman? Josef Fritzel? The kids responsible for the Columbine Massacre? They aren't good people, but aren't exactly as bad as Hitler/Stalin.

    But where do you think "God" stands on that?

    (I'm not taking the piss with the quote marks and stuff, before anyone gets offended about it; I deny the existence of "God" fully, hence why my putting it without the speech marks would kinda acknowledge the existence of such. May be bad logic by some/most people's standards, but it's my logic, so screw the rest of you ).
    I believe in A,B,C. Your misguided self is assuming I believe in D,E,F, and is asking me questions G,H,I, on those assumptions. How am I to respond?

    Your knowledge of Catholicism is wrong. You have no grasp of logic and philosophy. I refuse to waste my time on this.

    Oh and for the matter, I don't mean to be provocative on insulting. The lack of true facial expressions over the internet make me seem like a douche. I just recommend you correct your knowledge on the concepts of Catholicism if you think it's important.
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    (Original post by Cesare Borgia)
    I'll be truthfully repenting if I die and find out he's actually real, and then he will forgive me. That or I just have to be so bad that I become the devil's mainboy and he treats me nicely.
    Dream on. :p:

    If this post is to be treated seriously the devil is the incarnation of evil. Every single action of that filthy ******* is pure evil. Your sole will suffer evil for eternity because being evil doesn't mutuality exclude the effects of evil on you.
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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    So you are admitting that christianity is patriarchal and opressive to women?

    After all the fall of man apparently meant that god told women that men would be their master etc..etc..
    Considering men being women's "masters" is not a principle element of Christianity, no, I'm not admitting that it's oppressive to women.


    This stopped being a debate when you cited mansions and plasma tv's made of gold as legitimate points. :rolleyes:
    It was an exaggeration to make a point. Have you heard of those? The point is, Heaven is meant to be a fantastic place, and it's worth worshiping a god over. You knew that was the point, but you avoided it to turn it into an insult. That doesn't reflect well on your debating skills. It's also really sad the way you always find a way to turn debates into something personal and insulting when I try to keep it civil, and even lighthearted. Why do I bother?


    Are you trying to persist with accusing me of a strawman to avoid a discussion on portestant atrocity? Which in itself would be a strawman.
    Your point about "protestant atrocity" was entirely off-topic, and an attempt to distract me from my argument that Christianity itself does not condemn the use of birth control. I said Catholics do but Protestants don't, and somehow in your mind that was the equivalent of me insulting Catholicism. Well it wasn't. It's a fact. Protestants don't condemn birth control, end of.


    So you accept the evolutionary process?.... While at the same time accepting that God made us in his image?? :eyebrow:
    Mr. "I know more about your own religion than you do!" apparently hasn't heard of theistic evolution...


    So what should the innocent Amalekite children have done to stop the pain inflicted by God?
    Um... what pain inflicted by God, and how would they be able to stop that anyway?


    Which if anything reinforces God as a totalitarian tyrant. Bow before him and accept slavery, or you will be destroyed and burn forever in hell.
    We've already established that Christianity is not a slave religion. You're exchanging your devotion for eternity in Heaven. If you want to make a comparison to economics, that's paid labor and therefore not slavery. If you still think it is, there's a fascinating entry in the dictionary that will tell you what "slave" actually means.


    He stops being omnipotent if his actions are dictated to him by other forces, such as the apparent 'right time'. Why did he have to wait? Did something stop him form acting sooner?
    So by wanting to do something at a certain time, he's not omnipotent? That doesn't make any sense. God allowed the earth to develop at its own pace, he gave us free will, and he was willing to do things when our own societies were at a ripe time for it. That doesn't make him any less omnipotent.

    I have a pear here which I'm letting sit for a couple days because I want it to be ripe before I eat it. I could eat it right now, but I simply don't want to. Does that mean I have any less power over this pear? No, it doesn't.


    So Gods actions are dictated by our own? This alone means that God ceases to be omnipotent and would not therefore be God at all. Why would he let a tiny little empire like Rome get in the way of him and his flock?
    That tiny little empire didn't get in his way, it was what he was waiting for. Are you just skimming my posts?


    But you believe in the judeo christian religion, not the Olympian one. Jesus said that hell exists and it is a place of fire, brimstone and punishment for those who disobeyed God. Was he lying?
    You should really research Christian theology if you want to hold a theological debate, and certainly don't tell me you know more about it than I do.

    Hades and Hell are both places of the dead. Hades is the place where souls go after death until judgment. Once judgment takes place, the souls go to either Heaven or Hell. When all those poor little Amalekites died, they went there. And the Hades of Christianity is not the same Hades of Greek mythology, the name was simply borrowed when the books pertaining to it were written in Greek.
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    (Original post by theBOON)
    Dream on. :p:

    If this post is to be treated seriously the devil is the incarnation of evil. Every single action of that filthy ******* is pure evil. Your sole will suffer evil for eternity because being evil doesn't mutuality exclude the effects of evil on you.
    I'm more evil than the devil.
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    (Original post by Cesare Borgia)
    I'm more evil than the devil.
    Wasting my time doesn't count! I'm actually enjoying this! I have nothing else to do that I want to do now. Reading you posts is like a coolant for my grey matter and in the process of I might even develop some white matter (New Scientist October '09 issues).:yep:

    jk
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    (Original post by theBOON)
    Wasting my time doesn't count! I'm actually enjoying this! I have nothing else to do that I want to do now. Reading you posts is like a coolant for my grey matter and in the process of I might even develop some white matter (New Scientist October '09 issues).:yep:

    jk
    Oh yeah, how many Madelaine McCann jokes does the devil know?
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    (Original post by Moe Lester)
    Still waiting....
    I know I'm really sorry I wanted time to think about the correct response and also had a meeting - you will get a reply don't worry!
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    (Original post by rainbowbex)
    I know I'm really sorry I wanted time to think about the correct response and also had a meeting - you will get a reply don't worry!
    Don't apologise
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    (Original post by Scallym)
    This is an invalid point, I hope this example is helpful:

    If you have a fair dice (The probability that it lands with any face pointing down is equal to the probability that any other face is pointing down) with 10^10 (10000000000) faces, one of which has a white dot painted on it. So on a single roll, the probability that the dice will land with the white dot facing down is ridiculously small - 1/(10^10).

    Given also that a door will open if the white dot faces down, (releasing all us happy people into the world ) it seems pretty unlikely that we would ever exist.

    But that's not the problem we're facing, because we're here thinking about it on an internet forum.

    This is a conditional probability -
    Given that the door is open, what is the probability that when the dice was rolled, the white dot landed facing down? 1.


    Another note:
    Taking the probability of life occuring on a planet again to be 1/(10^10), and modeling it as a binomial distribution (probability of life occuring 10^-10, number of trials 10^21 {Estimate of the number of planets in the universe according to wikianswers})
    the probability of life occuring at least once is so high that my calculator just gives it as 1.


    Statistics was never my strong point, so give me time to think about this sober and I'll get back to you. I'm fairly sure I follow though..

    so in a probability situation it's likely, but in a practical situation?
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    (Original post by rainbowbex)
    I think you make a valid point with your first question, mostly because it requires thought to answer :p: I think that if there was evidence for the existence of intergalactic dragonflys (though not proof) or what could be considered evidence by a proportion of a population.

    But how do you define evidence? Would you consider religious scripture as evidence for god? Or widespread belief? In that case, any recorded fiction can be counted as evidence for any fictional being, while any belief system followed en-masse by a large number of human beings must also be given equal consideration.


    agree that there is no scientific proof of Gods existence or non existence but I believe there is definitely evidence pointing to some kind of divine being at least, and from what I believe I've experienced of God he is more real to me than Yoda or the Matrix - though if I met Yoda or escaped from the Matrix I'm sure I'd see things differently :p:

    I accept you may think you know a certain interpretation of God. But consider the fact that if you were born in Hindu India or Olympian Greece, your ideas about and relationship with god would be very different indeed, as would they if you had been born in Saudi Arabia or Japan etc... A fact which points evermore towards the idea that God is man made, rather than the other way around.

    Of course - If you consider the probability of the first amino acids/carbohydrates/fatty acids just coming into existence its highly improbable, if you consider the development of actual unicellular organisms its highly improbable, the probability of it just happening by itself is small so another explanation would be creation.
    Yes but Occams razor dictates that the hypothesis with the fewest assumptions in explaining the results is almost always the correct one. We know how improbable life is, but that isn't evidence of a divine designer. Consider the fact that 99.9% of all life which has ever existed on Earth is now extinct, or that in 5 billion years our sun is going to explode and the Andromeda Galaxy collide with the Milky Way. We are destined to be destroyed, and What kind of design is that, what kind of creator would see or allow his creations to be obliterated in such a way?

    Also, are you aware of the definition of species? evolution explains how each species changed in characteristics, but does not entirely explain the inability to interbreed. variability within species (a good example is dogs) is massive, but you still can't breed a dog with a cat and produce viable offspring - so where did all the different species come from?
    Why would the inability to interbreed suggest a designer? Competition is vital to evolution, something which has been observed down to the microscopic scale.
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    (Original post by Yazr)
    Im not religeous, religion is dead to me.. im a non legalistic Christian who has a growing relationship with Jesus and has saw him do amazing things in my life and with others. The Church I go to sings Hillsongs like rock worship http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYLxPByRZjg Its AWESOME. Our church is radical and has over 100 youth members. Its update and amazing. Does anyone eles share this ? I Just get this idea that people think Christians are middle class wolly wearing jumper boring people.
    I go to Hillsong Church London...come visit next time your in London!
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    (Original post by StandingOnAir)
    It goes against what you were originally saying about Christianity believing that women are "for mans benefit only". They were seen to be holy and righteous in themselves, for whatever reason.
    They were seen as property. On the same level as the house and the animals. Thou shalt not covet another mans possessions, his house his wife etc.. Exodus also includes another interesting commandment in that 'thou shalt not suffer a witch to live'. By 'witch' i expect they are talking about a woman who does not wish to conform, or perhaps feels the need to express her sexuality. COrrect me if i am wrong, but doesn't god also dictate to moses, the proper proceedings for the selling of daughters in marriage?

    I was talking about the cultural origins of the beliefs - I could hardly have been arguing for a literal interpretation...
    The whole religion is based on cultural origins. If there are any true core beliefs, the they are based on obvious morals, or borrowed values.
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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    By 'witch' i expect they are talking about a woman who does not wish to conform, or perhaps feels the need to express her sexuality.
    I had to lol at that one quite heartily.

    "I know I dislike this religion, so I'm going to make sure that in MY mind, this passage here means the WORST THING I CAN IMAGINE."
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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    But how do you define evidence? Would you consider religious scripture as evidence for god? Or widespread belief? In that case, any recorded fiction can be counted as evidence for any fictional being, while any belief system followed en-masse by a large number of human beings must also be given equal consideration.


    I accept you may think you know a certain interpretation of God. But consider the fact that if you were born in Hindu India or Olympian Greece, your ideas about and relationship with god would be very different indeed, as would they if you had been born in Saudi Arabia or Japan etc... A fact which points evermore towards the idea that God is man made, rather than the other way around.


    Yes but Occams razor dictates that the hypothesis with the fewest assumptions in explaining the results is almost always the correct one. We know how improbable life is, but that isn't evidence of a divine designer. Consider the fact that 99.9% of all life which has ever existed on Earth is now extinct, or that in 5 billion years our sun is going to explode and the Andromeda Galaxy collide with the Milky Way. We are destined to be destroyed, and What kind of design is that, what kind of creator would see or allow his creations to be obliterated in such a way?

    Why would the inability to interbreed suggest a designer? Competition is vital to evolution, something which has been observed down to the microscopic scale.
    Will reply to this when I have time, could be a couple of days (I'm very busy atm) prod me if I don't get back to you in case I forget.

    Hope you have a good weekend!
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    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    Considering men being women's "masters" is not a principle element of Christianity, no, I'm not admitting that it's oppressive to women.

    How is it not? You keep making assumptions with no backing.

    It was an exaggeration to make a point. Have you heard of those? The point is, Heaven is meant to be a fantastic place, and it's worth worshiping a god over. You knew that was the point, but you avoided it to turn it into an insult. That doesn't reflect well on your debating skills. It's also really sad the way you always find a way to turn debates into something personal and insulting when I try to keep it civil, and even lighthearted. Why do I bother?
    :nopity: You're so hard done by. :sadnod:


    Mr. "I know more about your own religion than you do!" apparently hasn't heard of theistic evolution...
    :mmm: Do go on, this could be interesting...

    Um... what pain inflicted by God, and how would they be able to stop that anyway?
    Are you being deliberately dense? What do you mean what pain inflicted? I think it's wuite obvious which pain is being inflicted. :rolleyes:

    We've already established that Christianity is not a slave religion.
    No we haven't, not in the slightest. But you can try and explain why it isn't.

    You're exchanging your devotion for eternity in Heaven. If you want to make a comparison to economics, that's paid labor and therefore not slavery. If you still think it is, there's a fascinating entry in the dictionary that will tell you what "slave" actually means.
    You use the word 'devotion'. Do you or do you not have to bow to gods will? Do you not have to accept his word without question? You cede your freedom to an immortal dictator. Call it what you will but paid labour does not imply you give up ownership of yourself to your employer, as you do to your master.

    So by wanting to do something at a certain time, he's not omnipotent?
    Why did he wait until that time? You said it was because of the Roman empire. Does that mean that Gods actions are therefore dictated by our own. Giving us influence and power over God?


    God allowed the earth to develop at its own pace, he gave us free will,
    :mmm: This is my favourite of the mistruths. You say it is free will, the freedom to choose. Yet if we are to choose an option or life for ourselves which the almighty does not approve of, or dislikes we burn in hell. What kind of freedom is that?

    When all those poor little Amalekites died, they went there. And the Hades of Christianity is not the same Hades of Greek mythology, the name was simply borrowed when the books pertaining to it were written in Greek.

    And you think this justifies your tyrannical God ordering the slaughter of these people?

    It just makes me chuckle how blindingly obvious it is that these stories are man made.
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    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    I had to lol at that one quite heartily.

    "I know I dislike this religion, so I'm going to make sure that in MY mind, this passage here means the WORST THING I CAN IMAGINE."


    So what exactly was the definition of a witch in medieval times?


    I know the reality of the primitive brutality which your faith is based in may be a bitter pill for you to swallow. But this is the 21st century. :dontknow:
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    religion started in the dark ages, now science is the light of knowledge and is the greatest disproof of religion
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    OP, you have a strong belief in God, therefore you are religious. End of.

    I'm not even going to comment on the whole issue of whether God exists or not as it was never the point of the thread...and I don't fancy writing an essay on the issue either.
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    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    What exactly is the relevance of that?
    You stated that the rate of AIDs would decrease in Africa if only people stopped having premarital sex. I assumed you must have been unaware of the enormous problem Africa has with rape, in particular, the notion that fornicating with a virgin cures AIDs.
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    (Original post by theBOON)
    What Rachelwhitney is saying is true and can happen. That's one reason why judging must be left in the hands of God the omniscient because there's not fooling around with him. Don't bother judging others; just live a good life or just go to hell (no pun intended).
    *sighs*

    Evidence or GTFO. I don't have time for this. If you're going to argue with me, at least give me an argument rather than just biased, unsupported opinions.
 
 
 
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