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    (Original post by Drunk Punx)
    *sighs*

    Evidence or GTFO. I don't have time for this. If you're going to argue with me, at least give me an argument rather than just biased, unsupported opinions.
    Actually, I think your the one in the wrong place :confused: no?
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    (Original post by Rachelwhitney)
    Before you let your pride make you feel like king of the world, let me say that if you want to go to hell, be my guest. Of course God is pissed off and is angry with the idiots who don't believe him, and anybody who is anyone who ever did anything bad will have to reap the consequences of what they did. That does not omit salvation. I dont remember ever saying that God would not deal with the horrid things they've done.
    and how the hell do you think you know that people cannot honestly repent? You think it is because they are scared; that is only because that is what you would do. But you would rather be angry and hate the world and to thrive off of your pride and so called 'dignity' than to humble yourself before the one that created you. So be it.
    Oh, and, if you knew anything about science you would know that God did not impregnate my mother. That doesn't change the fact that he knew I would exist before she was pregnant,and he created me and knit me together in my mothers womb. Pure science and goop made me form the way I am? I dont think so. You think so,but I dont.
    God is a heavenly father who created everything and everyone. You dont want to believe that, in fact you are going to try to make yourself feel better than me by arguing every thing I say because in your heart you believe me to be wrong. I am sorry you feel that way.
    End of conversation. I refuse to argue with someone who just wants to argue for arguments sake. You will never believe what I am saying, though I want you to.
    Because of that last bit, I think you are sweet, and have good intentions concerning your beliefs.
    However, you didn't really answer any of my questions/points directly as I did, and now I'm confused as to which bit means what. If you want to reiterate it then be my guest. Also, I'm going to tell you what I've said to the other guy; give me more evidence, and less opinions.
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    (Original post by theBOON)
    Actually, I think your the one in the wrong place :confused: no?
    Dude, we're on an Internet forum. Did you really expect there to be no conflict whatsoever in a thread titled "I have a Relationship with Jesus"? :p:

    Edit: Also, can you stop avoiding my points and bringing up irrelevancy? Either answer with something relevant to what I have asked/said, or don't.
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    (Original post by theBOON)
    I believe in A,B,C. Your misguided self is assuming I believe in D,E,F, and is asking me questions G,H,I, on those assumptions. How am I to respond?

    Your knowledge of Catholicism is wrong. You have no grasp of logic and philosophy. I refuse to waste my time on this.

    Oh and for the matter, I don't mean to be provocative on insulting. The lack of true facial expressions over the internet make me seem like a douche. I just recommend you correct your knowledge on the concepts of Catholicism if you think it's important.
    You are thinking WAY too much on this. I was asking a simple question, not trying to bring down the Vatican. Yes, I was questioning your beliefs with rationality at the same time, but all I wanted was an honest answer.

    Is that too much to ask?

    Also, I could argue with Catholicism all I wanted, all day long. I choose not to because I've been drinking tonight.
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    (Original post by Drunk Punx)
    You are thinking WAY too much on this. I was asking a simple question, not trying to bring down the Vatican. Yes, I was questioning your beliefs with rationality at the same time, but all I wanted was an honest answer.

    Is that too much to ask?

    Also, I could argue with Catholicism all I wanted, all day long. I choose not to because I've been drinking tonight.
    Kk then in response
    I can't judge someone without a possible error. Only God can. Why? Because I don't know the person as well as God does! I don't know his thoughts; intentions; what he really should be blamed fore! So that's why I shouldn't judge someone.

    The rule is simple you get forgiven if you accept God and truly regret your evil actions. If everyone does this everyone can get in heaven.

    What you must take into consideration is that most people will be too evil to be able to accomplish those feats. So you say, but doesn't God forgive everything and anyone? He forgives who is truly honest and sincere with him in his love and regretful of his sinful past. To name one, God didn't forgive the devil.
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    (Original post by rainbowbex)
    Statistics was never my strong point, so give me time to think about this sober and I'll get back to you. I'm fairly sure I follow though..

    so in a probability situation it's likely, but in a practical situation?
    It depends which bit you're refering to.
    The first bit isn't saying that life emerging on earth was likely, it's saying that the only way we can consider the probability is if it already had. If we hadn't evolved and life on mars had, they'd still be sat there thinking "The probability of us originating is low, we must be created by god!". It's like the lottery - The chances of you winning the lottery are pretty low, but someone still wins every week.


    For the second bit, you're modeling a real situation with the stats, so they're essentially the same thing, it depends how accurately you could calculate the probability of life emerging. Obviously it's not equal for all planets, (Some too hot, some too cold, wrong chemistry etc), but the numbers still come out pretty big. It's enough to convince me.

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    (Original post by Rachelwhitney)
    Before you let your pride make you feel like king of the world, let me say that if you want to go to hell, be my guest. Of course God is pissed off and is angry with the idiots who don't believe him, and anybody who is anyone who ever did anything bad will have to reap the consequences of what they did. That does not omit salvation. I dont remember ever saying that God would not deal with the horrid things they've done.
    and how the hell do you think you know that people cannot honestly repent? You think it is because they are scared; that is only because that is what you would do. But you would rather be angry and hate the world and to thrive off of your pride and so called 'dignity' than to humble yourself before the one that created you. So be it.
    Oh, and, if you knew anything about science you would know that God did not impregnate my mother. That doesn't change the fact that he knew I would exist before she was pregnant,and he created me and knit me together in my mothers womb. Pure science and goop made me form the way I am? I dont think so. You think so,but I dont.
    God is a heavenly father who created everything and everyone. You dont want to believe that, in fact you are going to try to make yourself feel better than me by arguing every thing I say because in your heart you believe me to be wrong. I am sorry you feel that way.
    End of conversation. I refuse to argue with someone who just wants to argue for arguments sake. You will never believe what I am saying, though I want you to.
    I don't understand people like you. I find it odd enough that you're willing to believe in something with not even the slightest shred of evidence, but to go further and personify and presume to know this entities intentions is just completely unjustified.
    Why do you think god would be pissed off with all the people that don't believe? Why would it even care?

    Also, what is the bit in bold even supposed to mean?
    That you don't believe the conventional [Read: True] explanation of reproduction?
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    (Original post by Drunk Punx)
    Because of that last bit, I think you are sweet, and have good intentions concerning your beliefs.
    However, you didn't really answer any of my questions/points directly as I did, and now I'm confused as to which bit means what. If you want to reiterate it then be my guest. Also, I'm going to tell you what I've said to the other guy; give me more evidence, and less opinions.
    Ok, so maybe I accidentally skipped some of the direct questions you had. And I thank you for responding in a mature, respectable way. What is it you would like to know? Are you more of the type who wants proof of the historical evidence for the bible and Jesus, or scientific facts that are proof for creationism?
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    (Original post by Scallym)
    I don't understand people like you. I find it odd enough that you're willing to believe in something with not even the slightest shred of evidence, but to go further and personify and presume to know this entities intentions is just completely unjustified.
    Why do you think god would be pissed off with all the people that don't believe? Why would it even care?

    Also, what is the bit in bold even supposed to mean?
    That you don't believe the conventional [Read: True] explanation of reproduction?
    THe bold sentence was just me being sarcastic, that is all :-)

    Did you know that I find it hard to understand people like YOU? And can I ask how you KNOW that there is no evidence, when I can tell you that there is more than enough??
    Who is your best friend? What if I told you that you were ridiculous in actually believing that you KNEW them. You would tell me that you knew them because you have spoken with them, talked with them, and they have spoken to YOU and spent time with you in return. The same with God and me, I know him because I have spent time with him talking to him, and him talking to me. I know it sounds crazy. but its one of those instances where you maybe have to be willing to believe the unbelievable before you will be able to see that it is true. If I tried hard enough, I could keep myself from believing ANYTHING, if I really tried.
    You can argue with facts, but one thing you cannot argue with is the fact that I personally KNOW him. I know his character, I know what he is like and how he acts and the kind of being he is. I almost want to be offended that you would say that I can't know him. Who are you to create the rules for my life?
    Let me tell you from my perspective why God would be angry at people who do not believe in him: He created us all, he wants us to have a relationship with him, and when people don't have a relationship with him that makes him angry because he wants the people he created to know him. Why should he care? Because he loves us. He loves me. He loves you, whether you want to believe it or not.
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    (Original post by theBOON)
    Kk then in response
    I can't judge someone without a possible error. Only God can. Why? Because I don't know the person as well as God does! I don't know his thoughts; intentions; what he really should be blamed fore! So that's why I shouldn't judge someone.

    The rule is simple you get forgiven if you accept God and truly regret your evil actions. If everyone does this everyone can get in heaven.

    What you must take into consideration is that most people will be too evil to be able to accomplish those feats. So you say, but doesn't God forgive everything and anyone? He forgives who is truly honest and sincere with him in his love and regretful of his sinful past. To name one, God didn't forgive the devil.
    I think most people aren't. As I said, most people are likely to beg for forgiveness on their death bed on the off-chance that a place considered heaven does actually exist.

    You seem to be forgetting that what we do and what has happened to us in the past makes us who we are.

    Case study: Friend A and Friend B have a massive argument. It's Friend A's fault. Because of what he done (which is irrelevant), he learned that Friend B doesn't take too kindly to it.
    If I was Friend A, then yes, I would regret the argument a bit, but at the same time I wouldn't because it would let me get a useful insight into Friend B's view on whatever it was I did, and thus I would learn not to do it again.

    So technically, you can commit a sin but be better off for it (not applicable in all situations, I hasten to add). So in a sense, unless you were religious in the first place, you wouldn't have any qualms about committing said sin.

    So if someone willing sin, as Friend A did, but don't regret or ask forgiveness for it because it made them a better person, does that mean "God" will smite them?
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    (Original post by Rachelwhitney)
    Ok, so maybe I accidentally skipped some of the direct questions you had. And I thank you for responding in a mature, respectable way. What is it you would like to know? Are you more of the type who wants proof of the historical evidence for the bible and Jesus, or scientific facts that are proof for creationism?
    I'd just like some form of reply to all the things I quoted you on a few posts back, in a similar way to the way I replied (each section a quote from you then a reply from me). It's easier to read that way.
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    I Just get this idea that people think Christians are middle class wolly wearing jumper boring people.

    Not at all.
    They don't all wear wolly (sic) jumpers.
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    (Original post by Rachelwhitney)
    THe bold sentence was just me being sarcastic, that is all :-)

    Did you know that I find it hard to understand people like YOU? And can I ask how you KNOW that there is no evidence, when I can tell you that there is more than enough??
    What evidence? 0_o

    (Original post by Rachelwhitney)
    Who is your best friend? What if I told you that you were ridiculous in actually believing that you KNEW them. You would tell me that you knew them because you have spoken with them, talked with them, and they have spoken to YOU and spent time with you in return.
    I know that this isn't my argument, but I'd just like to point out:

    If I kick my best friend, he will kick me back and call me a "****" or something equally as affectionate. So I can physically feel him kick me, and also hear him verbally abuse me for unprovokedly kicking him.

    If I jumped on his back, I'd be able to smell him (though I wouldn't want to :p: ).
    And yes, if I talk to him, there is a very good chance he will talk back. The difference being that I will be able to physically hear him speaking to me. His words would process through my brain and I'll be able to form a rational or otherwise reply.

    So the comparison between someone who definitely exists (unless you're a Solipsist, of course) and a non-entity that people think exists is a bit of a difference. :p:
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    The best song of them all:

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    (Original post by Drunk Punx)
    I think most people aren't. As I said, most people are likely to beg for forgiveness on their death bed on the off-chance that a place considered heaven does actually exist.

    You seem to be forgetting that what we do and what has happened to us in the past makes us who we are.

    Case study: Friend A and Friend B have a massive argument. It's Friend A's fault. Because of what he done (which is irrelevant), he learned that Friend B doesn't take too kindly to it.
    If I was Friend A, then yes, I would regret the argument a bit, but at the same time I wouldn't because it would let me get a useful insight into Friend B's view on whatever it was I did, and thus I would learn not to do it again.

    So technically, you can commit a sin but be better off for it (not applicable in all situations, I hasten to add). So in a sense, unless you were religious in the first place, you wouldn't have any qualms about committing said sin.

    So if someone willing sin, as Friend A did, but don't regret or ask forgiveness for it because it made them a better person, does that mean "God" will smite them?
    But in such a case there should be a regret in fighting you friend independently of any satisfaction you might have in having become a better person. You must feel regret for the sins you've done. Satisfaction and regret aren't mutually exclusive.

    I'll give you a better case (something you should have thought of) a family man kills an armed intruder who posed a threat to his family. Now in strict terms, the family man committed a sin. If he wouldn't have stopped the man he woiuld have committed a sin too because he is responsible for his life and the lives of his family. Now in such a case normal people would still be a bit regretful of having killed a man but on the other hand far more relieved that they eliminate the treat to their family. Such a thing will not stop a soul from entering heaven.
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    The best song of them all:

    That's almost as retarded as the vid in your sig.

    Almost.
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    (Original post by Rachelwhitney)
    THe bold sentence was just me being sarcastic, that is all :-)

    Did you know that I find it hard to understand people like YOU? And can I ask how you KNOW that there is no evidence, when I can tell you that there is more than enough??
    Who is your best friend? What if I told you that you were ridiculous in actually believing that you KNEW them. You would tell me that you knew them because you have spoken with them, talked with them, and they have spoken to YOU and spent time with you in return. The same with God and me, I know him because I have spent time with him talking to him, and him talking to me. I know it sounds crazy. but its one of those instances where you maybe have to be willing to believe the unbelievable before you will be able to see that it is true. If I tried hard enough, I could keep myself from believing ANYTHING, if I really tried.
    You can argue with facts, but one thing you cannot argue with is the fact that I personally KNOW him. I know his character, I know what he is like and how he acts and the kind of being he is. I almost want to be offended that you would say that I can't know him. Who are you to create the rules for my life?
    Let me tell you from my perspective why God would be angry at people who do not believe in him: He created us all, he wants us to have a relationship with him, and when people don't have a relationship with him that makes him angry because he wants the people he created to know him. Why should he care? Because he loves us. He loves me. He loves you, whether you want to believe it or not.
    I can't claim with absolute certainty that I know my best friend, the definition of "knowing" someone is pretty vague. I like to think that I do, i've "known" him for over a decade, but I can't say for certain.
    Why? Because it can't be shown objectively. Sure, you could perform a "guess how they react" experiment, but I still wouldn't know whether he thinks like I believe that he thinks, because he's the only one who can ever experience that.
    I can, however, say that he exists, because I can obtain objective, reproducable evidence. I could obtain a hair sample, for example.
    I could also give out his address, so that other people could go and see him, and talk to him, and get some hair, and have their own physical evidence that he exists.
    Reproducability is one of the central pillars of science, and it's why I can be sure that he exists.
    I can say "Here is how I got my evidence. Don't trust me? Try it yourself."
    That can't be said for religion. For starters, you don't have any physical evidence to begin with, and your non-physical evidence (I use the term quite loosely...) is not reproducable.


    The bit in bold:
    You seem you have this the wrong way round. You can't argue with facts, because they are true. You can try and argue with facts, but then someone shows you the objective, reproducable evidence of the statement's truth, and then you accept that the statement is true. (Unless you're incredibly foolish.)
    I can argue with your claim that you personally know god, because you have nothing to back it up. It's just a statement, not a fact.
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    This thread is still going?! Wow.
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    (Original post by ghostboobs)
    You stated that the rate of AIDs would decrease in Africa if only people stopped having premarital sex. I assumed you must have been unaware of the enormous problem Africa has with rape, in particular, the notion that fornicating with a virgin cures AIDs.
    Well if nobody had sex before marriage, nobody would be raping anybody either now would they?


    (Original post by Aeolus)
    How is it not? You keep making assumptions with no backing.
    The giving an account of something happening does not mean that the Bible condones that it happened. Your competence for logical reasoning is beginning to come fully to the surface at this point.


    :nopity: You're so hard done by. :sadnod:
    Following on my previous point, so is your general ability to debate. You need to take a good hard look at how debate works, and you'll realize how ridiculous you look when you abandon your failing argument and skip straight to insulting your opponent.


    :mmm: Do go on, this could be interesting...
    Google it.


    Are you being deliberately dense? What do you mean what pain inflicted? I think it's wuite obvious which pain is being inflicted. :rolleyes:
    Again, do you know how to debate? If you're going to make a point, be clear about it. Now I'll sit back and wait as you reply going "nuh uh, I was being clear about it, wahhh!"


    No we haven't, not in the slightest. But you can try and explain why it isn't.
    (Original post by You being ironic)
    Are you being deliberately dense?

    You use the word 'devotion'. Do you or do you not have to bow to gods will? Do you not have to accept his word without question? You cede your freedom to an immortal dictator. Call it what you will but paid labour does not imply you give up ownership of yourself to your employer, as you do to your master.
    Accept without question? No. No Christian ever goes an entire lifetime without questioning aspects of his faith, and there's nothing sinful about that.

    Not to mention, you don't have to give up your freedom to this "employer." You can quit whenever you like. Except obviously your "wage" is going to change.

    Well heck, that sounds like any job. If you are employed and follow the rules, you'll be paid. If you don't and quit, you aren't paid. Quite simple.


    Why did he wait until that time? You said it was because of the Roman empire. Does that mean that Gods actions are therefore dictated by our own. Giving us influence and power over God?
    The Roman empire gave the Jews a desire for a Messiah, to deliver them from oppression. The unity of the Roman empire also gave Christianity the perfect catalyst to spread over a vast distance to a lot of people. Quite simple.

    :mmm: This is my favourite of the mistruths. You say it is free will, the freedom to choose. Yet if we are to choose an option or life for ourselves which the almighty does not approve of, or dislikes we burn in hell. What kind of freedom is that?
    The fact that you don't like the options presented doesn't make it any less of a choice, sweetheart.


    And you think this justifies your tyrannical God ordering the slaughter of these people?
    Why can't the giver of life take life away? And if our physical bodies are temporary anyway and our souls are going to be in Heaven, who cares if we die? I don't.

    It just makes me chuckle how blindingly obvious it is that these stories are man made.
    Of course, just like everything you don't like is a lie.

    (Original post by Aeolus)
    So what exactly was the definition of a witch in medieval times?


    I know the reality of the primitive brutality which your faith is based in may be a bitter pill for you to swallow. But this is the 21st century. :dontknow:
    I'm still waiting for your logic and reasoning to kick in. Why are you bringing up anachronisms now? The Bible wasn't written in medieval times! So the definition of a witch in medieval times is completely irrelevant.
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    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    Well if nobody had sex before marriage, nobody would be raping anybody either now would they?
    Going to have to disagree with you there I am afraid. No sex before marriage wouldn't take away the sexual urge or a man or woman. The lust and whatever else drives a man/woman to rape a man/woman.

    Personally I see nothing wrong with sex before marriage. I've always been careful and it's done me no harm. As long as you remain that way until you are ready to have kids you won't end up either with AID or an STI or on the Jeremy Kyle show with some bow legged woman who claims her twin kids are yours.

    Or both of the above.
 
 
 
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