Turn on thread page Beta
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    Going to have to disagree with you there I am afraid. No sex before marriage wouldn't take away the sexual urge or a man or woman. The lust and whatever else drives a man/woman to rape a man/woman.

    Personally I see nothing wrong with sex before marriage. I've always been careful and it's done me no harm. As long as you remain that way until you are ready to have kids you won't end up either with AID or an STI or on the Jeremy Kyle show with some bow legged woman who claims her twin kids are yours.

    Or both of the above.
    I understand what you're coming from, but by definition, rape is sex outside of marriage. So therefore, if nobody ever had sex outside of marriage, rape would fall under the category and cease to exist.

    I'm not arguing in for or against premarital sex though, you're simply catching the backside of an allegation somebody made that it's Christianity's fault that there's AIDS in Africa.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    I understand what you're coming from, but by definition, rape is sex outside of marriage.
    So therefore, if nobody ever had sex outside of marriage, rape would fall under the category and cease to exist.
    1) So are you saying that marital rape doesn't exist? Because it does exist. Read this.

    And this

    Link 3


    2) Your assuming that if there is no sex before marriage then people won't have a sexual urge at all, but obviously people do have it, regardless if they are married or not. I don't know what drives a person to rape someone else. I don't know how much of it is sexual urge and how much of it is sexual and how much is to do with the person's mind, however I think it's safe to say that if suddenly by some miracle everyone waited until they were married before they had sex, those sexual urges wouldn't suddenly appear out of no-where.

    For a boy, those things start at 12-13 and go on into manhood and adulthood. The feelings and urges are there, and means that if a person is driven and sick enough, might be part of their motivation to commit rape.

    And then going back to my first point, because there is marital and spousal rape, the no sex before marriage rule wouldn't rule out rape.

    Come to think of it, it wouldn't stem AIDS and HIV either since you can get those from dodgy needles or blood transfusions gone wrong.

    I'm not arguing in for or against premarital sex though, you're simply catching the backside of an allegation somebody made that it's Christianity's fault that there's AIDS in Africa.
    I know, just pointing out why I disagreed with you in the above point. Anyway it's not Christianity's fault there is AIDS in Africa. Some bloke was really drunk and horny on the way back from the pub in some bush in Africa, so he cornered a monkey and shagged it. I thought everyone knew that by now
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Drunk Punx)
    What evidence? 0_o



    I know that this isn't my argument, but I'd just like to point out:

    If I kick my best friend, he will kick me back and call me a "****" or something equally as affectionate. So I can physically feel him kick me, and also hear him verbally abuse me for unprovokedly kicking him.

    If I jumped on his back, I'd be able to smell him (though I wouldn't want to :p: ).
    And yes, if I talk to him, there is a very good chance he will talk back. The difference being that I will be able to physically hear him speaking to me. His words would process through my brain and I'll be able to form a rational or otherwise reply.

    So the comparison between someone who definitely exists (unless you're a Solipsist, of course) and a non-entity that people think exists is a bit of a difference. :p:
    There are countless physical texts of history that prove that Jesus actually existed, and that he did what he said,("He Walked Among Us" by Josh McDowell) and that other people in the bible actually existed (dead sea scrolls). There is archeological evidence for events that occured in the bible (example: the flood) Then there is scientific evidence based on biology, physics, astronomy, etc, that all point to creationism and evolution cannot stand up to any of it. If you really are interested in learning more about this, and don't just want to argue, check out author/astronomist/physicist Dr. Hugh Ross, author and president of the Reasons To Believe Foundation/organization/ministry. He has several amazing books on scientific books on God and creationism.
    Do some research, actually look for the PROOF, not just the things that prove that its wrong. They don't give you all the facts that refute what PROVES it.

    I do have a relationship with him and I do talk to him and he does talk to me. The only LOGICAL explanation for such a thing is one of three things: I am lying, I am crazy, or it is true.
    I can tell you I am not a liar. I believe in truth and honesty.
    Am I crazy? Well, to actually be psychologically crazy there is a pattern that every and any doctor/psychologist/counselor can see and recognize/categorize. Nobody in my family has ever suspected me or told me I was crazy, I have never had any mental problems or anything that would make anybody suspicious of my mental health. Am I crazy? No I am not crazy.
    What, then, is the only other possibility? It is true.
    Now, it is your choice as to whether or not you will allow yourself to believe me because only YOU have THAT choice.:yep:
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Scallym)
    I can't claim with absolute certainty that I know my best friend, the definition of "knowing" someone is pretty vague. I like to think that I do, i've "known" him for over a decade, but I can't say for certain.
    Why? Because it can't be shown objectively. Sure, you could perform a "guess how they react" experiment, but I still wouldn't know whether he thinks like I believe that he thinks, because he's the only one who can ever experience that.
    I can, however, say that he exists, because I can obtain objective, reproducable evidence. I could obtain a hair sample, for example.
    I could also give out his address, so that other people could go and see him, and talk to him, and get some hair, and have their own physical evidence that he exists.
    Reproducability is one of the central pillars of science, and it's why I can be sure that he exists.
    I can say "Here is how I got my evidence. Don't trust me? Try it yourself."
    That can't be said for religion. For starters, you don't have any physical evidence to begin with, and your non-physical evidence (I use the term quite loosely...) is not reproducable.


    The bit in bold:
    You seem you have this the wrong way round. You can't argue with facts, because they are true. You can try and argue with facts, but then someone shows you the objective, reproducable evidence of the statement's truth, and then you accept that the statement is true. (Unless you're incredibly foolish.)
    I can argue with your claim that you personally know god, because you have nothing to back it up. It's just a statement, not a fact.
    Please refer to what I said most recently to Drunk Punx. :-D
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    1) So are you saying that marital rape doesn't exist? Because it does exist. Read this.

    And this

    Link 3
    Well I didn't take that into account, so you've got me there. Although even with marital rape, it doesn't contribute towards the spread of AIDS so my original original argument is still valid.


    2) Your assuming that if there is no sex before marriage then people won't have a sexual urge at all, but obviously people do have it, regardless if they are married or not. I don't know what drives a person to rape someone else. I don't know how much of it is sexual urge and how much of it is sexual and how much is to do with the person's mind, however I think it's safe to say that if suddenly by some miracle everyone waited until they were married before they had sex, those sexual urges wouldn't suddenly appear out of no-where.

    For a boy, those things start at 12-13 and go on into manhood and adulthood. The feelings and urges are there, and means that if a person is driven and sick enough, might be part of their motivation to commit rape.

    And then going back to my first point, because there is marital and spousal rape, the no sex before marriage rule wouldn't rule out rape.

    Come to think of it, it wouldn't stem AIDS and HIV either since you can get those from dodgy needles or blood transfusions gone wrong.
    I'm not assuming that people wouldn't have urges, not by a longshot. I don't quite see the relevance there though. And there may be spousal rape if everyone magically waited for marriage, but it would still mean there wouldn't be any rape of anyone else.

    As for needles and what not, I don't think that'd quite be enough to keep AIDS going for long. People tend to do that in little tweaker communities and don't really spread it to anyone else, so they'd probably just die off in isolation. And then of course if there was no premarital sex, the random bloke in the jungle you mention below never would have boned that monkey anyway! :p:


    I know, just pointing out why I disagreed with you in the above point. Anyway it's not Christianity's fault there is AIDS in Africa. Some bloke was really drunk and horny on the way back from the pub in some bush in Africa, so he cornered a monkey and shagged it. I thought everyone knew that by now
    Precisely!
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rachelwhitney)
    There is archeological evidence for events that occured in the bible (example: the flood) Then there is scientific evidence based on biology, physics, astronomy, etc, that all point to creationism and evolution cannot stand up to any of it.
    :toofunny:

    I do have a relationship with him and I do talk to him and he does talk to me. The only LOGICAL explanation for such a thing is one of three things: I am lying, I am crazy, or it is true.
    I can tell you I am not a liar. I believe in truth and honesty.
    Am I crazy? Well, to actually be psychologically crazy there is a pattern that every and any doctor/psychologist/counselor can see and recognize/categorize. Nobody in my family has ever suspected me or told me I was crazy, I have never had any mental problems or anything that would make anybody suspicious of my mental health. Am I crazy? No I am not crazy.
    What, then, is the only other possibility? It is true.
    Now, it is your choice as to whether or not you will allow yourself to believe me because only YOU have THAT choice.:yep:
    Wait, you just applied the trilemma to yourself?

    :toofunny:
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    Well I didn't take that into account, so you've got me there. Although even with marital rape, it doesn't contribute towards the spread of AIDS so my original original argument is still valid.
    True.

    I'm not assuming that people wouldn't have urges, not by a longshot. I don't quite see the relevance there though. And there may be spousal rape if everyone magically waited for marriage, but it would still mean there wouldn't be any rape of anyone else.
    The relevance is that no sex before marriage doesn't stem the sexual urge a person has, and if sexual urges play a big part in a persons motivation for rape, then it doesn't make it any less likely for rape to happen.

    Does that make sense? Not being rude, just not sure if I am explaining my point clearly enough.

    As for needles and what not, I don't think that'd quite be enough to keep AIDS going for long. People tend to do that in little tweaker communities and don't really spread it to anyone else, so they'd probably just die off in isolation.
    Yeah true, however sadly that still happens from time to time in larger towns and cities.

    You hear about it now and again. Smaller communities doesn't mean less sex though. A person who gets AIDS through a dodgy might still have sex with his wife, who then gives birth to three kids who then all go off and marry and have three kids each, and so on and so forth. So it can still spread.

    And then of course if there was no premarital sex, the random bloke in the jungle you mention below never would have boned that monkey anyway! :p:
    Your assuming that the no premarital sex rule applies to all species and inter-species sex. :cool:
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    The relevance is that no sex before marriage doesn't stem the sexual urge a person has, and if sexual urges play a big part in a persons motivation for rape, then it doesn't make it any less likely for rape to happen.

    Does that make sense? Not being rude, just not sure if I am explaining my point clearly enough.
    Well the original idea had to do with Christian teachings and people following them. So if people were able to keep their urges down until they got married due to a strong religious belief, they would be able to avoid raping each other as well (they'd be even more strongly opposed to doing that).

    But still, the idea simply is that non-marital rape is premarital sex. So if no premarital sex exists, rape can't either. I know it's ridiculously inplausible and all of course, but strictly speaking by definition.


    Yeah true, however sadly that still happens from time to time in larger towns and cities.

    You hear about it now and again. Smaller communities doesn't mean less sex though. A person who gets AIDS through a dodgy might still have sex with his wife, who then gives birth to three kids who then all go off and marry and have three kids each, and so on and so forth. So it can still spread.
    Well, those three kids would sadly die before reaching 10 years old. As terrible as it is, that would end it right there.


    Your assuming that the no premarital sex rule applies to all species and inter-species sex. :cool:
    Well I don't know of any countries that allow people to marry monkeys. :p:
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    Well the original idea had to do with Christian teachings and people following them. So if people were able to keep their urges down until they got married due to a strong religious belief, they would be able to avoid raping each other as well (they'd be even more strongly opposed to doing that).

    But still, the idea simply is that non-marital rape is premarital sex. So if no premarital sex exists, rape can't either. I know it's ridiculously inplausible and all of course, but strictly speaking by definition.
    Yeah by definition I get what your saying, and putting aside the fact that the day that happens the front page of "The Sun" will be "Breaking News: Hell Freezes over", I can understand what you are saying, but I am not sure that no premarital sex and people being able to control their sexual urges will necessarily come hand in hand.

    I'm not sure it will stem rape or pedo's.

    Well, those three kids would sadly die before reaching 10 years old. As terrible as it is, that would end it right there.
    Yes, unless they are AIDS/HIV carriers, which sadly do exist.

    Well I don't know of any countries that allow people to marry monkeys. :p:
    True, you've got me beat there.

    Still even if there was a law, that didn't stop the guy from shagging the monkey. I question if the sex between him and the monkey was even consensual.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    Well if nobody had sex before marriage, nobody would be raping anybody either now would they?

    Yes, and when did i say abstinence was a bad thing? In Uganda, AIDS was cut drastically through a program called ABC; Abstinence, Be faithful and Condomise. It was a massive success.

    Yet, the church preaches that condoms are evil that they spread AIDS. In a lot of regions they refuse charity unless condoms are prevented from being handed out. In many regions the church has a huge presence and is one of the only places the people can get AIDS education from.

    Thus millions of people suffer and die needlesly each year. All for what? Are you seriously telling me your ok with this? That as a 'christian' you are fine with the words of the lord being interpreted in such a way that kills women and children in such pain.

    And thats just AIDS. Lets not get started on all the other catholic atrocities in Africa. (ie: Genocide)


    Following on my previous point, so is your general ability to debate. You need to take a good hard look at how debate works, and you'll realize how ridiculous you look when you abandon your failing argument and skip straight to insulting your opponent.
    Again, do you know how to debate? If you're going to make a point, be clear about it. Now I'll sit back and wait as you reply going "nuh uh, I was being clear about it, wahhh!"
    How about we just get back to the discussion rather than you wasting so many words telling me about my "debating skill". :rolleyes: Judging from the rep i have received for this thread alone i would say they are at least adequate. :iiam:


    Accept without question? No. No Christian ever goes an entire lifetime without questioning aspects of his faith, and there's nothing sinful about that.

    If god came down from heaven and told you and your church to kill everyone in another church because he deems it just. Would you obey him?

    Not to mention, you don't have to give up your freedom to this "employer." You can quit whenever you like. Except obviously your "wage" is going to change.

    Well heck, that sounds like any job. If you are employed and follow the rules, you'll be paid. If you don't and quit, you aren't paid. Quite simple.
    It's funny, because when i quit my last job i wasn't dammned to eternal damnation and torture, i was able to walk away and pick another without fear of persecution or reprive. :beard:


    The Roman empire gave the Jews a desire for a Messiah, to deliver them from oppression.
    A Messiah who they still believe hasn't arrived. A conclusion which all evidencce actually points to.


    The unity of the Roman empire also gave Christianity the perfect catalyst to spread over a vast distance to a lot of people. Quite simple.
    How cruel of God to spread word of his existence in such a way. :no: Through the sword and flame. Don't you think it's a little unfair that he would deny his word to the millions of individuals living in the east? Who also happened to be living in the most advanced civilization in the world, where the majority of the morals Jesus apparently 'came up with' Had been said and recorded by Confucius centuries earlier?

    Why can't the giver of life take life away?
    So you admit at least that your god is a jealous tyrant who thinks nothing of ordering the killing of thousands?

    And if our physical bodies are temporary anyway and our souls are going to be in Heaven, who cares if we die? I don't.
    Why live then? Why are you in university educating yourself? Why not join your evangellical brethren in the South and pray for the apocalypse? Did not Jesus say, think not of the morrow? Didn't he imply that the world would end before the deaths of his apostles? (Which suggests, if anything that Jesus was one of the many countless mentally disturbed men running around Palestine at the time claiming to be a prophet.)
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Democracy)
    Yeah, I went to school for a few years with the likes of you.

    Bloody saddos, the lot of them.

    Thank **** for liberal Christians which put these zealots to shame.
    Amen, to that

    pun intended et all
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rachelwhitney)
    There are countless physical texts of history that prove that Jesus actually existed, and that he did what he said,("He Walked Among Us" by Josh McDowell) and that other people in the bible actually existed (dead sea scrolls). There is archeological evidence for events that occured in the bible (example: the flood) Then there is scientific evidence based on biology, physics, astronomy, etc, that all point to creationism and evolution cannot stand up to any of it. If you really are interested in learning more about this, and don't just want to argue, check out author/astronomist/physicist Dr. Hugh Ross, author and president of the Reasons To Believe Foundation/organization/ministry. He has several amazing books on scientific books on God and creationism.
    Do some research, actually look for the PROOF, not just the things that prove that its wrong. They don't give you all the facts that refute what PROVES it.
    Be that as it may, the Bible says that "God" created the world in 7 days. I'm also pretty sure somewhere that is reckons the Earth is only several thousand years old, or such is the implication.

    So I'd be willing to believe in the archaeological evidence that points towards the existence of the dinosaurs that existed several million years before humans actually existed.

    Are you seriously trying to tell me, based on that, that you do not believe that the Earth existed millions of years ago, and it in fact came into creation within the last 10 millenia?

    (Original post by Rachelwhitney)
    I do have a relationship with him and I do talk to him and he does talk to me. The only LOGICAL explanation for such a thing is one of three things: I am lying, I am crazy, or it is true.
    I can tell you I am not a liar. I believe in truth and honesty.
    Am I crazy? Well, to actually be psychologically crazy there is a pattern that every and any doctor/psychologist/counselor can see and recognize/categorize. Nobody in my family has ever suspected me or told me I was crazy, I have never had any mental problems or anything that would make anybody suspicious of my mental health. Am I crazy? No I am not crazy.
    What, then, is the only other possibility? It is true.
    Now, it is your choice as to whether or not you will allow yourself to believe me because only YOU have THAT choice.:yep:
    Umm...

    I don't think I can provide a dignified and respectful answer to that, so I'll just leave it. :p:
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    Is it kind of like this relationship?

    http://vodpod.com/watch/1317073-plea...h-park-studios
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Aeolus)
    Yes, and when did i say abstinence was a bad thing? In Uganda, AIDS was cut drastically through a program called ABC; Abstinence, Be faithful and Condomise. It was a massive success.

    Yet, the church preaches that condoms are evil that they spread AIDS. In a lot of regions they refuse charity unless condoms are prevented from being handed out. In many regions the church has a huge presence and is one of the only places the people can get AIDS education from.

    Thus millions of people suffer and die needlesly each year. All for what? Are you seriously telling me your ok with this? That as a 'christian' you are fine with the words of the lord being interpreted in such a way that kills women and children in such pain.

    And thats just AIDS. Lets not get started on all the other catholic atrocities in Africa. (ie: Genocide)
    That post was aimed at ghostboobs, not you, so I never implied or stated that you said abstinence was a bad thing.

    However, that doesn't excuse you for blaming all of Christianity for Catholic atrocities. And don't get started on me bashing Catholics either. But there's a reason why Protestantism exists, and it's because a lot of people don't like the way the Catholic church runs things. Things like that and the genocide you mention (not sure which genocide, but I'll play along) are a part of that reason.


    How about we just get back to the discussion rather than you wasting so many words telling me about my "debating skill". :rolleyes: Judging from the rep i have received for this thread alone i would say they are at least adequate. :iiam:
    Since when is rep given to people for their profound debate skills and wisdom? I've been under the impression that a person will give rep to the debater who they simply agree with, and is the harshest on the side that they don't agree with.



    If god came down from heaven and told you and your church to kill everyone in another church because he deems it just. Would you obey him?
    Aside from the fact that it would never happen, where is the relevance in that?


    It's funny, because when i quit my last job i wasn't dammned to eternal damnation and torture, i was able to walk away and pick another without fear of persecution or reprive. :beard:
    Pretend you have an employer who's offering you a job in the middle of a terrible, perpetual economic depression. There are no job opportunities except for this one. If you decide to reject or quit this job, you're going to "damned" to the eternal "torture" of unemployment.

    God is that employer, and hell is merely the absence of God.


    A Messiah who they still believe hasn't arrived. A conclusion which all evidencce actually points to.
    You do realize that many Jews actually converted to Christianity at this time, don't you? Current Jews obviously don't, because they're the descendants of those who rejected Jesus. Nobody said everyone was going to believe it.


    How cruel of God to spread word of his existence in such a way. :no: Through the sword and flame. Don't you think it's a little unfair that he would deny his word to the millions of individuals living in the east? Who also happened to be living in the most advanced civilization in the world, where the majority of the morals Jesus apparently 'came up with' Had been said and recorded by Confucius centuries earlier?
    The individuals living in the east were not deprived of God's word, were they?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_china

    As for Confucius, who ever said that Jesus was the first person to ever suggest that people live a peaceful, moral life?


    So you admit at least that your god is a jealous tyrant who thinks nothing of ordering the killing of thousands?



    Why live then? Why are you in university educating yourself? Why not join your evangellical brethren in the South and pray for the apocalypse? Did not Jesus say, think not of the morrow?
    The current life may not be the most important thing, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to make the most of it while I can.


    Didn't he imply that the world would end before the deaths of his apostles? (Which suggests, if anything that Jesus was one of the many countless mentally disturbed men running around Palestine at the time claiming to be a prophet.)
    What?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Rachelwhitney)
    There are countless physical texts of history that prove that Jesus actually existed, and that he did what he said,("He Walked Among Us" by Josh McDowell) and that other people in the bible actually existed (dead sea scrolls). There is archeological evidence for events that occured in the bible (example: the flood) Then there is scientific evidence based on biology, physics, astronomy, etc, that all point to creationism and evolution cannot stand up to any of it. If you really are interested in learning more about this, and don't just want to argue, check out author/astronomist/physicist Dr. Hugh Ross, author and president of the Reasons To Believe Foundation/organization/ministry. He has several amazing books on scientific books on God and creationism.
    Do some research, actually look for the PROOF, not just the things that prove that its wrong. They don't give you all the facts that refute what PROVES it.

    I do have a relationship with him and I do talk to him and he does talk to me. The only LOGICAL explanation for such a thing is one of three things: I am lying, I am crazy, or it is true.
    I can tell you I am not a liar. I believe in truth and honesty.
    Am I crazy? Well, to actually be psychologically crazy there is a pattern that every and any doctor/psychologist/counselor can see and recognize/categorize. Nobody in my family has ever suspected me or told me I was crazy, I have never had any mental problems or anything that would make anybody suspicious of my mental health. Am I crazy? No I am not crazy.
    What, then, is the only other possibility? It is true.
    Now, it is your choice as to whether or not you will allow yourself to believe me because only YOU have THAT choice.:yep:
    1) Books are not proof of anything. If that were the case you'd have to believe in harry potter as well. In fact, mathematics is the only way to prove anything, and if you can write a mathematical proof that god exists I will be impressed. However, books can be sources of evidence, and I don't doubt that a man called Jesus did exist around that time. This still doesn't show he had any magical powers, only that he existed. (And someone claiming to be god existing is very different to god existing)

    2) The bit about the evidence for creationism is just wrong. There is no evidence at all that the universe was created by an omnipotent external entity, and the evidence that we have about the early life of the universe says it was a lot more than 7 days before the earth formed and life evolved.
    Also, I don't get what you mean about evolution. Are you saying that there is evidence for it or that there is not?
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Aeolus)
    -blank-
    And again Aeolus neg reps and runs instead of replying to a post when he realizes that he can't go on. How amazingly typical of him!
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    And again Aeolus neg reps and runs instead of replying to a post when he realizes that he can't go on. How amazingly typical of him!


    :teehee: You actually subbed just so you could see who neg repped you? :rofl: :rofl:

    You need to stop taking the internet so seriously. :yy:



    As for your post. If you want a serious reply then i suggest you learn how to construct an argument which has at least a vauge appearence of intellectual consistency. Instead of posting a picture of a fish in reply to a valid and difficult point, or your last, laughable argument of 'what'. I assume you were incapable of understanding, let alone answering. :rolleyes:

    (The edit button is right below your post. )
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Aeolus)
    :teehee: You actually subbed just so you could see who neg repped you? :rofl: :rofl:

    You need to stop taking the internet so seriously. :yy:



    As for your post. If you want a serious reply then i suggest you learn how to construct an argument which has at least a vauge appearence of intellectual consistency. Instead of posting a picture of a fish in reply to a valid and difficult point, or your last, laughable argument of 'what'. I assume you were incapable of understanding, let alone answering. :rolleyes:

    (The edit button is right below your post. )
    I've been a sub for about 6 months now, actually. Have you never noticed the rather large size of my avatar?

    And you're in no position to be telling me about constructing arguments if you can't recognize a "red herring." Seriously, what did you learn in school? You should go visit it again, Mr. Self Proclaimed "I know I'm a good debater because I has lots of rep, lolz."
 
 
 
The home of Results and Clearing

3,351

people online now

1,567,000

students helped last year
Poll
A-level students - how do you feel about your results?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.