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    (Original post by reems23)
    You aren't suggesting that morality is in the dna, even though the use of the word 'evolved' would suggest so, correct?
    Yes, I don't think morality is inherited genetically. The fact that individuals that grow up outside a group setting do not develop and are never able to develop socially acceptable behaviour would suggest that it's not. Or another plausible explanation, and this might be more accurate, would be that morality does have a genetic basis, but the phenotype of morality can only develop if the individual is raised in a group setting, because genotype+environment => phenotype.

    Because of how similar these two are, the only way we could really differentiate between them would be by looking at solitary animals, who theoretically should not have evolved any kind of genetic morality. Can solitary animals be trained to develop socially acceptable behaviour? Would the fact that they can be domesticated be an indication of that?

    Thanks for all your praise by the way.
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    (Original post by reems23)
    Mainly directed at those not of faith or belief in the divine.

    Where do you get your sense of morality from?

    Do you understand that this is based on arbitrary limits you or society have constructed?

    Does the lack of a basis mean these values are bendable and are they adjustable to suit your whims and desires? Why not?
    I don't have morality; every decision I make is cerebral and logical.
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    (Original post by rajandkwameali)
    what?

    I'm simply saying what is fact, since absolutes in moral terms have not been proven.
    nothing, nothing. Yes you are correct.
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    (Original post by Notker)
    I don't have morality; every decision I make is cerebral and logical.
    You are like the lady in 'house' who is a psychopath.
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    (Original post by reems23)
    You are like the lady in 'house' who is a psychopath.
    I've never watched 'House'*, but I accept the compliment regardless.

    *Note the capitalisation.
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    (Original post by Notker)
    I've never watched 'House'*, but I accept the compliment regardless.

    *Note the capitalisation.
    *Note the lack of 'care'.
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    (Original post by reems23)
    You are like the lady in 'house' who is a psychopath.
    A psychopath can have morals, they lack empathy.
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    It comes naturally to me because I'm not a knobhead
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    From the same place as theists - from society.
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    (Original post by Notker)
    And that is why your mother regrets not having an abortion.
    because he doesn't use perfect grammar on an internet forum? makes perfect sense. spaz
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    (Original post by nexttime)
    From the same place as theists - from society.
    Now this does sound like the traits of a psychopath.
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    (Original post by Pheylan)
    because he doesn't use perfect grammar on an internet forum? makes perfect sense. spaz
    Precisely.
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    from the Fresh Prince of Bell Air and Arthur

    or more seriously - from evolution.
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    (Original post by reems23)
    take your ******** wagon somewhere else please, it doesn't annoy me, it's just filling this thread with nonsense.
    You started this; reacting to a simple footnote.
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    Somewhere in the earlier pages, there was a mention of morality being a natural instinct for the preservation of the species; much like how animals don't kill others of the same species unless absolutely necessary.

    Consider this situation : You're taking a walk in a forest (or any other isolated space you can think of) and suddenly you see an unknown child drowning in the river, calling to you for help. There is no way you can reach the kid from the bank and it's either you stand and watch, or you jump right in and attempt to save him. Instinct would tell you not to jump in and risk losing your life; the river's raging and would probably wash you down along with him; but at the back of your head you know that you need to save the boy. It's the Right thing to do, for some reason. It goes against your self-preservation mechanism; and yet any feeling individual would fear for the boy's life and jump in without much thought to get him out (even those who can't swim.)
    You can't say that saving the boy is also an instinct, because the purpose of instinct first and foremost to ensure one's own survival; and putting your life in danger for a complete stranger is definitely not something animals would do. No one's there to see you save the boy, the boy probably won't tell anyone you saved him; so it's definitely not for the purpose of conforming to social norm. So why are you saving the boy? So he doesn't die. What then?

    What exactly is a conscience? Why does it refrain you from doing what you want to do, and why do we have an idea of what is wrong and right? How does it disobey natural instinct? Why do you reason instead? Why do we all have the common idea of moral perfection, yet none of us are able to emulate the image?
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    (Original post by Hamlet91)
    So why are you saving the boy? So he doesn't die. What then?
    Empathy
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    (Original post by n00)
    Now this does sound like the traits of a psychopath.
    riiight...

    your conscience is an inherent quality present to create co-operation in society, and just how this takes form is dependent on your environment. i.e. society.

    Being a psychopath is the medical lack of the inherent quality.

    Where do you think morals come from?
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    You're asking specifically of non-religious people... I don't think religion makes a difference tbh. I'd consider morality to be not hurting someone on purpose, not taking advantage, not ignoring someone in need. Well I'd do all these anyway. But I don't see something as being moral or not, I guess it depends on how you look at it and the situation. Like I know some people would say abortion is immoral (sorry, I'm really not trying to open the abortion debate here, just an example) and I can see where they're coming from but I'd be more interested in what the woman wants as it's her body. So I wouldn't see that as immoral as it's your body.

    But yeah, I don't think you need a bible/koran/whatever god to tell you that something is wrong, you should know and be able to see the effects your action will have on other people or animals. And I suppose you should care too - without being a total martyr either.
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    (Original post by nexttime)
    riiight...

    your conscience is an inherent quality present to create co-operation in society, and just how this takes form is dependent on your environment. i.e. society.

    Being a psychopath is the medical lack of the inherent quality.

    Where do you think morals come from?
    A psychopath is capable of blindly following society’s rules without understanding why they exist.

    Equally I believe a person brought up outside of society's rules would be capable of forming their own morality compatible with society's rules.
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    (Original post by Hamlet91)
    Somewhere in the earlier pages, there was a mention of morality being a natural instinct for the preservation of the species; much like how animals don't kill others of the same species unless absolutely necessary.

    Consider this situation : You're taking a walk in a forest (or any other isolated space you can think of) and suddenly you see an unknown child drowning in the river, calling to you for help. There is no way you can reach the kid from the bank and it's either you stand and watch, or you jump right in and attempt to save him. Instinct would tell you not to jump in and risk losing your life; the river's raging and would probably wash you down along with him; but at the back of your head you know that you need to save the boy. It's the Right thing to do, for some reason. It goes against your self-preservation mechanism; and yet any feeling individual would fear for the boy's life and jump in without much thought to get him out (even those who can't swim.)
    You can't say that saving the boy is also an instinct, because the purpose of instinct first and foremost to ensure one's own survival; and putting your life in danger for a complete stranger is definitely not something animals would do. No one's there to see you save the boy, the boy probably won't tell anyone you saved him; so it's definitely not for the purpose of conforming to social norm. So why are you saving the boy? So he doesn't die. What then?

    What exactly is a conscience? Why does it refrain you from doing what you want to do, and why do we have an idea of what is wrong and right? How does it disobey natural instinct? Why do you reason instead? Why do we all have the common idea of moral perfection, yet none of us are able to emulate the image?
    Animals are perfectly capable of going against their core instinct of self-preservation. Insects will readily sacrifice themselves for the sake of protecting their colony, and we have no evidence to suggest they have anything resembling a conscience. When it comes to group situations, altruism does have the selective advantage.

    However, in the case of humans, there's also the added factor of social conditioning. We're presuming the man in your situation has grown up in a society where he would have been raised to have certain ideologies, that would compel him to try and save the child and leave him with HUGE guilt if he didn't. A feral human would be unlikely to dive in and save the child.
 
 
 
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