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    At Eton, 175 boys got three As. Among all the poorest boys at state schools, it was 75.

    That is an indication of how the state system is failing the poorest children, Mr Gove.

    "Imagine it: one school having two-and-a-half times as many boys eligible for the top universities as the as the entire population of poor boys," he said.
    I am really in favour of plans by the Tories to improve state-education and implement more grammer schools. Along with teachers having to have a 2:1 at degree level...none of this 2:2/PASS or under-qualified crap.

    Coming from a state highschool where only 29% of pupils passed with 5A*-C including Maths and English...it justifies my views. Many teachers I found there were just bothered about the majority getting 'Cs' at GCSE and not pushing pupils. The school is an Academy now which is even worse!

    What are your views on this and thoughts? I think the UK needs this, many foriegners have better English Qualifications than most of the students in highschools today..and interest in Maths/Sciences has decreased greatly!

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...tives-say.html

    http://www.timeshighereducation.co.u...ode=410062&c=1

    Thanks
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    love it,...cba to say more...will return later
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    A good teacher is not necessarily one with a good degree. For starters the best teachers empathise with the difficulties their students may have in understanding the conceps they are explaning. Not to mention the fact that knowledge of a subject and ability to communicate it may overlap to an extent but are clearly different things.

    As for grammar schools, they are no longer (if indeed they ever were) centres of social mobility. Private courses and tuition for the 11+ are more widely available than ever and the socio-economic background of the vast majority of grammar school pupils is overwhelmingly affluent.
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    Grammar schools are a terrible idea. I'd be amazed if Cameron re-establishes them; he's not that much of a Conservative.

    (from a grammar school, so that either validates my opinion or makes me a hypocrite)
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    (Original post by andy5788)
    As for grammar schools, they are no longer (if indeed they ever were) centres of social mobility. Private courses and tuition for the 11+ are more widely available than ever and the socio-economic background of the vast majority of grammar school pupils is overwhelmingly affluent.
    Disagree. Around half my year receive EMA and we go to a grammar school. The private tutors etc are definitely a problem though/
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    They're looking at it the wrong way. State schools will never be able to reach Eton standards because there isn't the money for it. 'Poor boys' are being disadvantaged not only by underperforming schools but by the private schools that have been praised for 'academic excellence'. Academic attainment can never be a true measure of ability unless everyone gets the same education.
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    So what are the Tories plans to improve state education?
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    I personally really like their policy on education. I think it's important we have the best people teaching kids but saying that one of my favourite teachers has a third. But she's fantastic... everyone actually looks forward to her lessons and she does a better job than a lot of my teachers who have really good degrees.. but it just depends.. on the whole it sounds really good.
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    I disagree with there being an increased number of grammar schools, and I disagree with the Tory focus on grades as being of utmost importance.

    In short, meh.
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    Well if grammer schools arn't the answer..we need improvement in normal highschools!
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    vast improvement!
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    Sounds like the ramblings of some ivory tower academics and toffs after too good a lunch. Only someone who is an idiot aided by intoxicating liquor will suggest Eton as a good comparision to a comp.

    Someone should tell the Tories it was Thatcher who as education secretary in the Heath government closed more grammer schools than Labour ever did. There were 2 main reasons why grammar schools were closed down. Firstly, its very expensive to have 2 separate education systems and second, middle class parents got very upset and embarassed when their kids failed the 11+ and they either had to go to the local secondary modern or the parents forked out for a private school.

    State schools have enough problems attracting good teachers already particularly in the sciences and maths. Putting arbitary hurdles in the way is not going to help. It should be up to the teacher training colleges to decide who gets on the course or not.
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    (Original post by Amit92)
    I am really in favour of plans by the Tories to improve state-education and implement more grammer schools. Along with teachers having to have a 2:1 at degree level...none of this 2:2/PASS or under-qualified crap.
    So you'll pay them more? Since you're cutting out at least a third of teachers, how will you get people with 2.1s/1sts to become tecahers?

    Then where will the money come from...?
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    (Original post by Kneechuh)
    Grammar schools are a terrible idea.
    No, they are not.
    They foster social mobility and allow the very best students to excel academically, regardless of non-relevant variables (income, ethnic group etc.)

    They are an incredibly important mechanism in the construction of an equitable society, if we take a definition of 'equity' which appears to be harmonious amongst Western Europe and the UK.
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    (Original post by chidona)
    No, they are not.
    They foster social mobility and allow the very best students to excel academically, regardless of non-relevant variables (income, ethnic group etc.)

    They are an incredibly important mechanism in the construction of an equitable society, if we take a definition of 'equity' which appears to be harmonious amongst Western Europe and the UK.
    That is absolute rubbish, and completely unfounded. I don't mean to sound so rude, but what you've said just isn't true. I've been debating this issue a long time, as it's a pet-peeve of mine.

    In a district where the grammar school system is implemented (take my wonderfully Conservative Lincolnshire, for example), at the grammar schools, 1 in 60 children are entitled to means-tested free school meals. This means that their household income is below a certain amount. If you look at the comprehensives, the statistic changes to 1 in 4. Grammar schools are more like ghettos for the advantaged than ladders of opportunity for the poor.

    If we keep going, we'll sidetrack the whole thing, but if you want to debate grammar schools, I think a separate thread would be better, where proper arguments could be put forward. I've got an economics exam tomorrow to revise for anyway.. :o:
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    (Original post by Kneechuh)
    That is absolute rubbish, and completely unfounded. I don't mean to sound so rude, but what you've said just isn't true. I've been debating this issue a long time, as it's a pet-peeve of mine.

    In a district where the grammar school system is implemented (take my wonderfully Conservative Lincolnshire, for example), at the grammar schools, 1 in 60 children are entitled to means-tested free school meals. This means that their household income is below a certain amount. If you look at the comprehensives, the statistic changes to 1 in 4. Grammar schools are more like ghettos for the advantaged than ladders of opportunity for the poor.

    If we keep going, we'll sidetrack the whole thing, but if you want to debate grammar schools, I think a separate thread would be better, where proper arguments could be put forward. I've got an economics exam tomorrow to revise for anyway.. :o:
    Look, I never said grammar schools were a perfect establishment for heralding in egalitarianism.

    I, too, come from a grammar school (two in fact, both from very different areas), and 50% of those who went to university from the sixth form I was at were the first people in their families to go to university.

    THAT is what grammar schools are about. I'm sorry, but using free meals tokens as a proxy for social mobility is simply not anywhere near acceptable; indeed, income is a big (and increasingly relevant) inequality, but one also has to consider other pertinent measures of SEG inequality.

    That said, I wouldn't dare say that grammar schools are perfect. Indeed, there are marked problems with them, not least in the manner in which they select what applicants may join their ranks, but fundamentally they are both a just institution and a desirable institution.

    Best of luck with your economics exam.
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    (Original post by chidona)
    No, they are not.
    They foster social mobility and allow the very best students to excel academically, regardless of non-relevant variables (income, ethnic group etc.)

    They are an incredibly important mechanism in the construction of an equitable society, if we take a definition of 'equity' which appears to be harmonious amongst Western Europe and the UK.
    Grammar schools have been tried and discarded because they were too expensive and didn't work.

    If grammar schools did enable social mobility, then the secondary moderns must conversely stop social mobility. I don't think that would construct an equitable society.

    The concept of grammar and secondary modern schools makes the assumption that people at the age of 10 or 11 can be neatly divided into academic and vocational and should be taught that way. If that is true, perhaps you could provide some evidence that back up your assertion.
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    (Original post by Amit92)
    I am really in favour of plans by the Tories to improve state-education and implement more grammer schools. Along with teachers having to have a 2:1 at degree level...none of this 2:2/PASS or under-qualified crap.

    Coming from a state highschool where only 29% of pupils passed with 5A*-C including Maths and English...it justifies my views. Many teachers I found there were just bothered about the majority getting 'Cs' at GCSE and not pushing pupils. The school is an Academy now which is even worse!

    What are your views on this and thoughts? I think the UK needs this, many foriegners have better English Qualifications than most of the students in highschools today..and interest in Maths/Sciences has decreased greatly!

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...tives-say.html

    http://www.timeshighereducation.co.u...ode=410062&c=1

    Thanks

    Agree. What a fantastic idea, there's the future.. :rolleyes:
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    The problem is that these policies are just Tony Blair all over again. Its all very well talking, but you need the policy to back it up. If Gove wants to really change things, he's going to have say how he intends to do it. Re-hashing a existing Labour policy to allow parents to found schools with state support is great, but the take-up is likely to be 2 or 3 schools nationwide at the most.
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    Well we can all agree on vast improvement in state schools can't we?
 
 
 
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