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    Hello folks,

    On many debates, several users have persistently given lists of why Labour have been successful, brilliant and the like. I thought I would provide my own list which indicates Labour's failure, incompetence and the like.

    Here is a short list:
    • 45 percent of UK GDP is taken in tax according to the OECD - That is up from 37.5 percent in 2000
    • Britain is ranked 14 in the OECD PISA survey of children's scientific literacy, down from 4th in 2000
    • The total tax burden has increased 51 percent in real terms in the last ten years
    • The total amount charged in stamp duty has increased by 314 percent
    • Britain has the fifth large budget deficit of thirty developed countries
    • Our pension funds have lost £100 billion since Gordon Brown raided the fund in 1997
    • Real disposable income grew on average 2.6 percent annually between 1996 and 2007. Between 1986 and 1996 they grew by 3.2 percent
    • Britain fell from 7th to 17th in an international comparison of reading literacy between 2000 and 2006
    • According to the European Central Bank our Government wastes £99 billion annually
    Please feel free to add more
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    Hello folks,

    On many debates, several users have persistently given lists of why Labour have been successful, brilliant and the like. I thought I would provide my own list which indicates Labour's failure, incompetence and the like.

    Here is a short list:
    • 45 percent of UK GDP is taken in tax according to the OECD - That is up from 37.5 percent in 2000
    • Britain is ranked 14 in the OECD PISA survey of children's scientific literacy, down from 4th in 2000
    • The total tax burden has increased 51 percent in real terms in the last ten years
    • The total amount charged in stamp duty has increased by 314 percent
    • Britain has the fifth large budget deficit of thirty developed countries
    • Our pension funds have lost £100 billion since Gordon Brown raided the fund in 1997
    • Real disposable income grew on average 2.6 percent annually between 1996 and 2007. Between 1986 and 1996 they grew by 3.2 percent
    • Britain fell from 7th to 17th in an international comparison of reading literacy between 2000 and 2006
    • According to the European Central Bank our Government wastes £99 billion annually
    Please feel free to add more
    I think his biggest miscalculation was not going for an election the oct/nov after he came to be PM...
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    However much I dislike Gordon Brown, I feel he has not failed as Prime Minister since mid 2008. He reached a year in office and it seemed as if this was the beginning of his slow decrease in my opinion and public opinion.

    This in hand, it is his, and only his failing that we are well and truly indebted for half a century if not more. He has miscalculated the amount of money required to emerge from the recession. We do not need hundreds of billions of pounds to 'spend' out of recession. I am sure if this was left to the free market we would slowly recover, it may have taken longer, but we would have appeared out of recession with lesser budget deficits. A budget deficit as substantial as the one we have at present is deeply worrying for the next generation of labourers and very careless on Labour's behalf.

    Mr Brown may well be telling us that he is the party of the many, rather than the party of the few [Cons]. But let's remember that this is the Prime Minister who has increased NI rates for the past 2 budgets. It is the tax that we don't notice.

    Very Sneaky Mr Brown, you are definately no longer the party of the many, you are the party of the working class. Aiming for the middle class vote, more like aiming for the middle class pocket.
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    (Original post by RooKnight)
    Very Sneaky Mr Brown, you are definitely no longer the party of the many, you are the party of the working class. Aiming for the middle class vote, more like aiming for the middle class pocket.
    Removing the 10% band and reducing the 22% band to 20% hit the middle class?
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Removing the 10% band and reducing the 22% band to 20% hit the middle class?
    Actually I said that the NI taxes are what will hit the middle class pocket. The 20% tax band + the NI increases hits those with middle class standings. Removing the 10% band does not help the Middle Classes, just we have to pay for those who were on the 10% also. Not fair in my opinion.
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    Surprised the gold sell off in the 90s wasn't mentioned in that list, it's often brought up in these sorts of things.
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    (Original post by RooKnight)
    Actually I said that the NI taxes are what will hit the middle class pocket. The 20% tax band + the NI increases hits those with middle class standings. Removing the 10% band does not help the Middle Classes, just we have to pay for those who were on the 10% also. Not fair in my opinion.
    I know you did, but that was offset by the change to income tax - as long as you earn over 18k. There was no offset for those under 18k, they were still hit with the NI increase but had no benefit.

    How did it hit the middle class more?
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    (Original post by freecom2)
    Surprised the gold sell off in the 90s wasn't mentioned in that list, it's often brought up in these sorts of things.
    You're right it usually is, I hope you haven't dragged it up :P

    TSR convieniently forgets about the 3G licience auction...
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    Hello folks,

    On many debates, several users have persistently given lists of why Labour have been successful, brilliant and the like. I thought I would provide my own list which indicates Labour's failure, incompetence and the like.

    Here is a short list:

    • 45 percent of UK GDP is taken in tax according to the OECD - That is up from 37.5 percent in 2000
    • Labour are big on the public sector, and the public sector costs money.

    • Britain is ranked 14 in the OECD PISA survey of children's scientific literacy, down from 4th in 2000
that could be more to do with literacy in other countries getting better

  • The total tax burden has increased 51 percent in real terms in the last ten years
  • again, public services cost money, and those who voted labour in would expect them to follow through on their ethos of a strong public sector

  • The total amount charged in stamp duty has increased by 314 percent
  • again, things cost money

  • Britain has the fifth large budget deficit of thirty developed countries
  • yes...the fifth largest...

  • Our pension funds have lost £100 billion since Gordon Brown raided the fund in 1997
  • and why would he have needed to do that when labour had just come into power?

  • Real disposable income grew on average 2.6 percent annually between 1996 and 2007. Between 1986 and 1996 they grew by 3.2 percent
  • growth is growth, and it is not (and cannot be) exponential

  • Britain fell from 7th to 17th in an international comparison of reading literacy between 2000 and 2006
  • the rest of the world is playing catch up

  • According to the European Central Bank our Government wastes £99 billion annually
  • £99 billion isn't that much in terms of the global economy
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    To be fair, the UK was already in a mess prior to Brown, if anything, you should blame Blair.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    I know you did, but that was offset by the change to income tax - as long as you earn over 18k. There was no offset for those under 18k, they were still hit with the NI increase but had no benefit.

    How did it hit the middle class more?
    If I remember the pre-budget report correctly, the increase in NI rates does not equal a 2% decrease in income tax. I am unhappy that these changes hit the middle class especially. They hit everyone, but the middle class are always hit hardest as the disposible income levels are smaller even if there is a 2% decrease in income tax. They receive less benefits than the working class in many departments and they are the focus of neither party especially the labour party.
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    (Original post by RooKnight)
    I am unhappy that these changes hit the middle class especially.They hit everyone, but the middle class are always hit hardest as the disposible income levels are smaller even if there is a 2% decrease in income tax.

    They receive less benefits than the working class in many departments and they are the focus of neither party especially the labour party.
    Person A
    NI Increased
    Income Tax increased

    Person B
    NI Increased
    Income Tax decreased

    How has it hit person B harder?
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    (Original post by Barden)
    £99 billion isn't that much in terms of the global economy
    errrrmmmmm why compare a localised waste to a global system

    Equally a £175bn budget deficit is fine because although its 13% of UK GDP, its tiny when compared to global GDP...
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Person A
    NI Increased
    Income Tax increased

    Person B
    NI Increased
    Income Tax decreased

    How has it hit person B harder?
    You are not taking any values into account here. If person A has small increases on a large income whereas if person B has small disposible income a 2% decrease in income tax and a higher decrease in NI rates will be hit harder. Your point is valid, but we have drifted away from my point originally that aiming for the middle class vote does not work when the taxes for the middle classes are higher than from the original labour ideology for tax the rich aid the poor.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    errrrmmmmm why compare a localised waste to a global system

    Equally a £175bn budget deficit is fine because although its 13% of UK GDP, its tiny when compared to global GDP...

    i meant as part of said global economy.....i.e. in global terms
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    (Original post by Barden)
    that could be more to do with literacy in other countries getting better
    So we cannot improve?
    Other countries get better so should we.
    yes...the fifth largest...
    Yes, that is quite large out of over 200 countries...

    and why would he have needed to do that when labour had just come into power?
    No idea. The economy was in good shape when Labour won.

    the rest of the world is playing catch up
    Which means our rates stagnated... We should have been increasing as well.

    £99 billion isn't that much in terms of the global economy
    That figure is around 55% of the entire budget deficit. It is a huge figure, and to compare it to the global economy is just stupid.

    Oh Malta is running a deficit of 500% GDP... well compared to the global economy that is nothing, thus Malta is fine.

    Stupid -_-
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    Yes, that is quite large out of over 200 countries...
    But quite a lot smaller out of 30 developed countries (which was the original quote)
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    (Original post by Quady)
    But quite a lot smaller out of 30 developed countries (which was the original quote)
    5th worst out of the thirty... that is still bad.
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