TV License charged me twice! Watch

verticalforce
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Ok, so I paid for my TV License online using my debit card, clicked "confirmed" on the final payment page and it brings me right back to the home page - no thank you notification or anything...

Suspecting the payment didn't get through the system, I checked my online bank statement to see I've been charged twice. It hasn't cleared yet but basically in the details it says "POS" which I gathered to mean point of sales and the "online" balance in my a/c is reduced by 142.5x2 amount.

I'm a bit pissed as there is not even any payment notification sent to my email. Could it be that my payment hasn't gone through their system but they've actually managed to charge me not once, but twice? :rolleyes:

What should I do now? I've emailed them about this but not sure what they can do if there is no record of me in their system??!

Sorry for the panicky post, I'm a cash strapped student and seeing my diminishing bank balance scares me. :woo:
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Dez
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Bunch of sodding crooks TBH. I'd ring your bank and explain, should be fairly obvious to them that there's no reason to buy two TV licenses, they may be able to stop one of the payments (if they're feeling nice -- doesn't hurt to ask though). Failing that, get in contact with TV licensing and get it sorted out. Direct Debit in the future, I'd suggest.
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didgeridoo12uk
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ring dont email the tv license people. if they aren't any help get your bank to stop both payments. then i'd order it again
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TShadow383
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Next time, don't buy a tv license - I refuse to buy one until TV licensing stop being so evil.
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verticalforce
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(Original post by TShadow383)
Next time, don't buy a tv license - I refuse to buy one until TV licensing stop being so evil.
I wouldn't buy one if not for TV License inspector who will most definitely check if the house have one near the end of term. My area is a popular student housing accomodation and is a bit of a hotspot i'm afraid. :o:

In fact, the've issued me with a notice 2 months ago when they carried out a random inspection. I thought I might as well pay now as there'll be no excuse by the time they make the second visit...lol...:eek3:
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Dez
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(Original post by verticalforce)
I wouldn't buy one if not for TV License inspector who will most definitely check if the house have one near the end of term. My area is a popular student housing accomodation and is a bit of a hotspot i'm afraid. :o:

In fact, the've issued me with a notice 2 months ago when they carried out a random inspection. I thought I might as well pay now as there'll be no excuse by the time they make the second visit...lol...:eek3:
They're not allowed inside your house and never will be. And there's no way they can gather incriminating evidence from outside your home without breaking the law (the whole they-can-detect-TVs thing is nonsense). Never ever let someone from TV licensing enter your house, if the office lot are crooks it's nothing compared to the sort of people they hire for house calls.
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verticalforce
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(Original post by Dez)
They're not allowed inside your house and never will be. And there's no way they can gather incriminating evidence from outside your home without breaking the law (the whole they-can-detect-TVs thing is nonsense). Never ever let someone from TV licensing enter your house, if the office lot are crooks it's nothing compared to the sort of people they hire for house calls.
When they issued me the notice, they read out my rights and everything which to be frank, scares the **** out of me.

I didn't know you could actually refuse them entry? Is this true?
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TShadow383
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(Original post by verticalforce)
When they issued me the notice, they read out my rights and everything which to be frank, scares the **** out of me.

I didn't know you could actually refuse them entry? Is this true?
They need a court order to search your house. If they don't have one (and they would NEVER apply for one for a random inspection) then you can tell them to go shove their phoney "tv-detection equipment" where the sun don't shine.
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Dez
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Nobody is allowed to enter your home unless they have a court order. Nobody. No-one. Ever. Even your landlord is required to give 24 hours notice before entering the property (except in the case of emergency, of course), which is normally specified in your tenancy agreement. You have the right to refuse entry to anyone who comes knocking at your door, and unless you have good reason to let them in, don't. TV licensing people will say and do anything it takes to get you to pay up, they don't care if you actually need a license or not. I've heard cases before of their goons insisting a license is required where (in the eyes of the law) it is not, or simply insisting that every property should have a TV license. :facepalm:

Ignore their letters, ignore their threats. If they come round to your house, refuse them entry. They have no power whatsoever, it is up to them to prove you're guilty, not you to prove you're innocent.

And if you feel like supporting the TV networks (BBC, C4 and ITV all have a share of the license kitty this year), maybe consider paying up. That's what it's supposed to be about, not this scare tactic bull****.
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TShadow383
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(Original post by Dez)
Nobody is allowed to enter your home unless they have a court order. Nobody. No-one. Ever. Even your landlord is required to give 24 hours notice before entering the property (except in the case of emergency, of course), which is normally specified in your tenancy agreement. You have the right to refuse entry to anyone who comes knocking at your door, and unless you have good reason to let them in, don't. TV licensing people will say and do anything it takes to get you to pay up, they don't care if you actually need a license or not. I've heard cases before of their goons insisting a license is required where (in the eyes of the law) it is not, or simply insisting that every property should have a TV license. :facepalm:

Ignore their letters, ignore their threats. If they come round to your house, refuse them entry. They have no power whatsoever, it is up to them to prove you're guilty, not you to prove you're innocent.

And if you feel like supporting the TV networks (BBC, C4 and ITV all have a share of the license kitty this year), maybe consider paying up. That's what it's supposed to be about, not this scare tactic bull****.
I just have to say - well said sir, well said
Personally - I will refuse to get a tv license for as long as I can possibly get away with it. I couldn't pay them that money realising that some of it will go to paying for their thugs and extortion letters.
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Dez
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As someone who's looking to enter the TV industry, I'm supportive of people actually paying the license as it means I can eat.
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mfaxford
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(Original post by Dez)
Nobody is allowed to enter your home unless they have a court order. Nobody. No-one. Ever. Even your landlord is required to give 24 hours notice before entering the property (except in the case of emergency, of course), which is normally specified in your tenancy agreement.
I believe there are some groups who can enter without a search warrant/court order but this is very limited as to when and who.
Examples I'm aware of are DTI (as they used to be) with regard to Radio/TV Broadcasting and I believe the police in instances where there is a major incident going on and there isn't time for a court order / search warrant. I can imagine disiplinary action in any such cases though if it's misused so unlikely they'de be used.
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mfaxford
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(Original post by Dez)
And there's no way they can gather incriminating evidence from outside your home without breaking the law (the whole they-can-detect-TVs thing is nonsense).
Technically there are ways this can be done. As to how much they do that in normal operations I doubt they use technical means that much. Knocking on the door and listening for the sound of a TV is probably a lot cheaper and easier.
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Dez
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(Original post by mfaxford)
Technically there are ways this can be done. As to how much they do that in normal operations I doubt they use technical means that much. Knocking on the door and listening for the sound of a TV is probably a lot cheaper and easier.
I'm intrigued. Just what do you suggest could detect a television that is receiving live RF signal from an antenna while it is in use? :holmes:
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mfaxford
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(Original post by Dez)
I'm intrigued. Just what do you suggest could detect a television that is receiving live RF signal from an antenna while it is in use? :holmes:
Almost all Radio/TV devices work by mixing two frequencies together to get an intermediate frequency. For radio this IF is around 11MHz I can't remember where it is for TV although it might be similar. The rest of the circuitry will work at this IF. It's much easier to work with 11Mhz then 400-900 MHz.

Whilst this internal signal is relativly low powered there will be some leakage of it and this would be possible to be picked up. I'd have thought with some good filtering, a good reciever and a directional(high gain) antenna you could pick it up from outside a house. You probably wouldn't need a perfect (watchable signal) as long as you can show that the signal recieved is similar enough to a known TV channel at the same time.
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L i b
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(Original post by verticalforce)
I didn't know you could actually refuse them entry? Is this true?
:rolleyes:
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Dez
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(Original post by mfaxford)
Almost all Radio/TV devices work by mixing two frequencies together to get an intermediate frequency. For radio this IF is around 11MHz I can't remember where it is for TV although it might be similar. The rest of the circuitry will work at this IF. It's much easier to work with 11Mhz then 400-900 MHz.

Whilst this internal signal is relativly low powered there will be some leakage of it and this would be possible to be picked up. I'd have thought with some good filtering, a good reciever and a directional(high gain) antenna you could pick it up from outside a house. You probably wouldn't need a perfect (watchable signal) as long as you can show that the signal recieved is similar enough to a known TV channel at the same time.
Interesting. Way beyond the budget of TV licensing though I think, they spend too much on hired yobs for that kind of tech. :p:
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member159703
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Total scum. Probably charged you twice on purpose based on their other tactics.
They got my mates the other day with oh you have a tv you need it. Even when they replied with we only use it for xbox which is true. After I had told them to not let them in. If my housemates let them in they can pay it.
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iceman_jondoe
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lol ive never paid, never will until i start working...until then the tv licensing company can sod off
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mfaxford
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(Original post by Dez)
Interesting. Way beyond the budget of TV licensing though I think, they spend too much on hired yobs for that kind of tech. :p:
Probably less than the cost of a hired yob's yearly wages. However I suspect other tactics (knock on a door and oh is that the end of EastEnders I can hear) probably gives then enough evidence in most cases.

How many people make sure their TV a) can't be heard/seen outside their house and b) turn it off before answering the door ? (Don't forget they probably don't even need to see the TV. If you can see the changing light and can match that to something currently showing on live TV that's pretty obvious evidence).
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