Which 2 languages would be most useful to learn at uni? Watch

oodalallyoodalally
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(Original post by El Gennaro)
I'm a native Arabic speaker and I started learning Spanish last year, and I found many similarities, such as sentence structures.
In fact, our teacher would encourage us to think of how we would say a sentence in Arabic and then translate it into Spanish, because of the grammar similarities.
Come to think of it there are a few lexical similarities. thanks for pointing this out. Might come in handy
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薇薇公主
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(Original post by Piers-)
I don't think you can look at someone's language proficiency in such a black and white way as being either "fluent" or "not fluent".

You can start to really use the language you're learning well before you're actually fluent in it! Like I said earlier, many of my friends have already started using Chinese in professional environments, and we haven't even graduated yet. This may not be the case for easier languages, because there are so many people already fluent in them; but for the more difficult languages, the pool of people is much smaller, and there really are very few people with "good" Chinese, let alone fluent. Also, as Anatheme said above, most people are aware that it takes much more than a degree to become fluent in some languages.
JOLLEY!!!!JOLLEY!!!!!!!!!

MARK MY WORDS!
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near_comatose
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(Original post by Anatheme)
Not really, no… (unless you're talking about dialectal, in which case maybe, but MSA, definitely not.)

And Chinese won't benefit you as much as Russian because in 8 years of Chinese you'd just be able to read a newspaper whereas you could be fluent in Russian. Honestly, don't underestimate Russia in terms of business.

You really shouldn't say that to someone, because you can't possibly know and it might dissuade them from learning a language they're really passionate about
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nearlyheadlessian
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(Original post by near_comatose)
You really shouldn't say that to someone, because you can't possibly know and it might dissuade them from learning a language they're really passionate about
Hmm, yes and no. Clearly it's something of an exaggeration on anatheme's part - I would certainly expect to be doing better than that after 8 years if I had been working hard. But I think it's a fair point to make - it's a very difficult language to learn, and if you're not interested and only doing it because it's "useful", then it's important to understand before going into it how difficult it will be.
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Anatheme
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It's not my exaggeration, I've only been repeating something I heard from Mnadarin teachers at languages fairs. Now they might have been exaggerating, but Mandarin is still one the hardest languages to learn in the world for an English speaker and it definitely will take you ages to learn it (surely more than 4 years), and if someone's really passionate about their language, they won't be demotivated by what they hear about it, or they're clearly not ready to learn it. And as harsh as it is, I'd rather demotivate someone from starting a degree they're not entirely ready for than letting them believe they could do it and them ending up hating it. If you're wondering which difficult but useful language would be the best for you, for me, it clearly shows that none of them is appropriate as you won't go very far in your degree with a mere interest in them rather than a true passion for the language.
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Piers-
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Anatheme,

It doesn't surprise me that you heard the "8 years just to read a newspaper" line from a Chinese teacher. Many Chinese people underestimate Westerners' abilities to learn their language. This is partly because Chinese is simply very difficult, but is also based on the mistaken notion that Chinese can only be learned by Chinese people. I remember when I told some of my Chinese friends I would start to learn Mandarin at uni, and feeling pretty gutted when they quite bluntly said they didn't think I'd ever manage to learn it. Now, after only a few years of study, it's easier to communicate with them in Chinese rather than English (they go to university in England too, so their English is by no means shabby).

Surprisingly, this sort of view is also adopted by many Chinese teachers. I remember meeting an American guy in Beijing who'd won a scholarship to study in China. His teachers in America said that they wouldn't teach him any characters because they would never be able to learn them properly, and as a result he had to start learning them from scratch in Beijing, only starting during his 3rd year of study! Now, there is a good point to be made that the time spent on learning thousands of characters could be better spent on improving your speaking and listening; but, ultimately, if you are going to try and get fluent, becoming literate is a very important step. In fact, how one would even learn Chinese past the very elementary stage without learning how to read is beyond me.

I wonder whether this sort of mindset exists for other languages too?

Lastly, I can only restate my earlier point that I don't think language proficiency should be viewed as either 'fluent' or 'not fluent'; it should instead be viewed on a (never-ending?) scale with 'haven't learned anything' on the left and either 'fluent' or 'native-like' on the right, depending on what one's goals are. I think it's perfectly possible to graduate with a high proficiency but not yet be fluent, and I know of many people who've gone on to use their 'difficult' languages in a professional way after graduation.

That said, I definitely agree that people need to be aware what they're getting into. In my experience, though, the time when most people are likely to give up is right at the start, rather than after a few years when they realise fluency is a long way off.
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wes
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(Original post by Anatheme)
The UN is laking French and Russian speaking interpreters quite badly, from what I've been told at a career fair.

And also, when you learn a language you get used to the structure and grammar, and since you've learnt many Romance languages, I'm guessing it's a lot easier for you to learn those languages as opposed to semitic languages, for example. And also because Romanc languages are pretty straightforward and that learning one will ease your learning of the others?



If you consider a career in Foreign Affairs/diplomacy, you need French, and will have troubles not having it, not matter how easy it is. French and Spanish are always useful languages to have, but if you can learn it without doing your degree in it, it could be better.
Aye, we're being told that a lot of them are coming up for retirement in the next few years.
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username330427
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I'd say a UN language? The ones picked by a global international agency can't be a bad choice. :dontknow:

You could also try a niche European language if you fancied the EU, as I was told at a UCL Open Day that that would be a good plan. Something like Czech or whatever.

I agree that Russian is incredibly difficult - I've spoken it to some level since I was really little, and I've always struggled with it. :o: I am currently capable of holding a conversation to a reasonably sophisticated level, but even from a partially native perspective, the only advantage I hold is my good accent, and knack for understanding native speech at its usual speed.

As for Chinese, I am perplexed as to how the difficulty is being estimated! This might be Birmingham tutors encouraging people to apply, but all of the ones I met at their various Open Days (pre-applicant, applicant, and a taster course I did in the summer) were positive about how it wasn't as difficult as everyone suggested, and you only needed knowledge of about 2,000 characters to understand a newspaper, and so on and so forth.

Just what I've heard. :dontknow:
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Anatheme
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(Original post by Piers-)
Anatheme,

It doesn't surprise me that you heard the "8 years just to read a newspaper" line from a Chinese teacher. Many Chinese people underestimate Westerners' abilities to learn their language. This is partly because Chinese is simply very difficult, but is also based on the mistaken notion that Chinese can only be learned by Chinese people. I remember when I told some of my Chinese friends I would start to learn Mandarin at uni, and feeling pretty gutted when they quite bluntly said they didn't think I'd ever manage to learn it. Now, after only a few years of study, it's easier to communicate with them in Chinese rather than English (they go to university in England too, so their English is by no means shabby).

Surprisingly, this sort of view is also adopted by many Chinese teachers. I remember meeting an American guy in Beijing who'd won a scholarship to study in China. His teachers in America said that they wouldn't teach him any characters because they would never be able to learn them properly, and as a result he had to start learning them from scratch in Beijing, only starting during his 3rd year of study! Now, there is a good point to be made that the time spent on learning thousands of characters could be better spent on improving your speaking and listening; but, ultimately, if you are going to try and get fluent, becoming literate is a very important step. In fact, how one would even learn Chinese past the very elementary stage without learning how to read is beyond me.

I wonder whether this sort of mindset exists for other languages too?

Lastly, I can only restate my earlier point that I don't think language proficiency should be viewed as either 'fluent' or 'not fluent'; it should instead be viewed on a (never-ending?) scale with 'haven't learned anything' on the left and either 'fluent' or 'native-like' on the right, depending on what one's goals are. I think it's perfectly possible to graduate with a high proficiency but not yet be fluent, and I know of many people who've gone on to use their 'difficult' languages in a professional way after graduation.

That said, I definitely agree that people need to be aware what they're getting into. In my experience, though, the time when most people are likely to give up is right at the start, rather than after a few years when they realise fluency is a long way off.
Thanks for this post, at least I now have a good explanation as to why everyone was telling me that and also a better idea of what the truth is. I don't feel, however, that the same mindset exists for other difficult languages, or I haven't came across it. People know my degree is difficult, but they know even less about my languages than they do about others so they just assume that because it's another alphabet it's really difficult, but they've most of the time never heard them spoken so have no idea what it is like.

Also, by "learning", in my previous post, I meant learning as in studying it, I wasn't talking about a level of proficiency at all, just the pure study of it. And I don't really like to use the word fluency at all, for I'd say I'm bilingual as I speak two languages, but one isn't totally up to the level of the other, so even if I have an excellent command of it, I'd just say I'm proficient, but not fluent. I see fluency as a kind of level you achieved once you have no more struggle with a language at all, before that, just different levels of proficiency in a language. But that's entirely subjective so I really shouldn't say anything :holmes:

(Original post by wes)
Aye, we're being told that a lot of them are coming up for retirement in the next few years.
Perfect for me, then :teeth:
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xJessx
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(Original post by Anatheme)
Spanish is easy. That is, if you compare it to stuff like Mandarin, Russian, Arabic. If you tell me it's harder than Japanese, I really won't believe you :nah:. And tbh, it's easier than French, might be harder than Italian, not sure, but that's about it.
It might be easier but it's not easy lol.
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Anatheme
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(Original post by xJessx)
It might be easier but it's not easy lol.
Yeah, that's what I said… (Hence the comparison with languages seen as "hard" ). Although I don't think it's very high in the Difficult Languages to Learn For English Native Speakers League Table. :rolleyes:
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IzzyWizzy
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(Original post by Anatheme)
Yeah, that's what I said… (Hence the comparison with languages seen as "hard" ). Although I don't think it's very high in the Difficult Languages to Learn For English Native Speakers League Table. :rolleyes:
If it is that easy, why aren't more people brilliant at it? I think it's an easy language to pick up but not to master. Would you say English was an easy language for speakers of Romance languages? I wouldn't. Most people can speak it and be understood, but very few ever get really good at it. As an ESL teacher, I think English is deceptively easy. I get students in pre-intermediate saying English is easy, but they only think that because they're blissfully ignorant of how much there is still to learn. I think Spanish is like that, although perhaps not to the same degree. The majority of people I've met who claimed that Spanish was easy were pretty bad at it. If you were arrogant enough to claim a language was easy, wouldn't you make sure you knew that 'seguir' is not followed by the infinitive or that 'problema' is masculine? If it's so easy, why do people who think they're fluent make these basic, basic mistakes? Nobody I know who is bilingual in Spanish/English says Spanish is easy.
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Anatheme
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(Original post by IzzyWizzy)
If it is that easy, why aren't more people brilliant at it? I think it's an easy language to pick up but not to master. Would you say English was an easy language for speakers of Romance languages? I wouldn't. Most people can speak it and be understood, but very few ever get really good at it. As an ESL teacher, I think English is deceptively easy. I get students in pre-intermediate saying English is easy, but they only think that because they're blissfully ignorant of how much there is still to learn. I think Spanish is like that, although perhaps not to the same degree. The majority of people I've met who claimed that Spanish was easy were pretty bad at it. If you were arrogant enough to claim a language was easy, wouldn't you make sure you knew that 'seguir' is not followed by the infinitive or that 'problema' is masculine? If it's so easy, why do people make these basic, basic mistakes? Nobody I know who is bilingual in Spanish/English says Spanish is easy.
'Cause you're the best, innit. Although, people aren't brilliant at French, nor at German, nor at any language at all, actually, so yeah, they may be **** at Spanish but they're **** at everything else as well, not just Spanish. No language is easy to master, but I'm sure as hell there are many, many harder languages to just learn (then master) than Spanish.

And English is definitely an easy language for native speakers of Romance languages, for they can reach a great level in it without even going there (I know, my English is ****, I don't care). You could also ask yourself if the way languages is taught has something to do with it. I'm sure my 8h of English a week at school were more beneficial than the average A-Level student's 3h/week.

I don't really care whether I come across as a right arrogant *****, Spanish may be difficult for you to learn, but it isn't that much of a difficult language to learn and is hardly listed in the top hardest languages to learn. You need to put this into context, I'm comparing it to the rest of the languages on Earth not just German or French.

http://www.claritaslux.com/blog/the-...uage-to-learn/
http://www.language-learning-advisor...n-another.html
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_th...guage_to_learn

As for English being easy, don't get me started, my English may not be perfect but my degree definitely doesn't suffer from that. I'd agree that it's not an easy language to master and also that I'm far from perfection, but as said above, there's no easy language to master and I believe I do a pretty good job at using it without being spotted as a foreigner every single time.
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IzzyWizzy
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(Original post by Anatheme)
'Cause you're the best, innit. Although, people aren't brilliant at French, nor at German, nor at any language at all, actually, so yeah, they may be **** at Spanish but they're **** at everything else as well, not just Spanish. No language is easy to master, but I'm sure as hell there are many, many harder languages to just learn (then master) than Spanish.
French and German don't seem to constantly get labelled as 'easy' languages the way Spanish does. Why not? How come people who speak them don't go around saying how easy they are and how anyone can learn them? I haven't found any significant difference in the level of difficulty. It goes without saying that Japanese or Arabic are harder for an English speaker to learn than Spanish, but why does Spanish suffer from the reputation that it's for idiots? French has more similar vocabulary to English than Spanish and German and Dutch are similar to English in many ways. Why are people impressed when I say I know German but not what I say I know Spanish?

And English is definitely an easy language for native speakers of Romance languages, for they can reach a great level in it without even going there (I know, my English is ****, I don't care). You could also ask yourself if the way languages is taught has something to do with it. I'm sure my 8h of English a week at school were more beneficial than the average A-Level student's 3h/week.
I don't agree. Most people are terrible at it, and it's always the ones who think it's easy who speak it badly. Sure, some people speak it really well but I have classes full of people who have been learning English for 10+ years and are still at pre-intermediate level. Sure, they probably had bad teachers, but if English is so easy, how come they weren't able to teach themselves?

I don't really care whether I come across as a right arrogant *****, Spanish may be difficult for you to learn, but it isn't that much of a difficult language to learn and is hardly listed in the top hardest languages to learn. You need to put this into context, I'm comparing it to the rest of the languages on Earth not just German or French.

http://www.claritaslux.com/blog/the-...uage-to-learn/
http://www.language-learning-advisor...n-another.html
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_th...guage_to_learn
I didn't say it was hard for me to learn, but I've never found any language particularly hard. Obviously it's going to be harder for a European to learn Chinese, that doesn't need to be said, but I don't know why Spanish is always singled out as 'the easy one' by people who butcher it when they speak.

As for English being easy, don't get me started, my English may not be perfect but my degree definitely doesn't suffer from that. I'd agree that it's not an easy language to master and also that I'm far from perfection, but as said above, there's no easy language to master and I believe I do a pretty good job at using it without being spotted as a foreigner every single time.
You do have a really high level of English. I'm talking about the masses of people who think it's easy because it's 'I play, you play, we play' and are completely unaware of just how complex it really is. I always say it's easy to speak English badly, and I think the same applies to Spanish.
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Anatheme
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(Original post by IzzyWizzy)
French and German don't seem to constantly get labelled as 'easy' languages the way Spanish does. Why not? How come people who speak them don't go around saying how easy they are and how anyone can learn them? I haven't found any significant difference in the level of difficulty. It goes without saying that Japanese or Arabic are harder for an English speaker to learn than Spanish, but why does Spanish suffer from the reputation that it's for idiots? French has more similar vocabulary to English than Spanish and German and Dutch are similar to English in many ways. Why are people impressed when I say I know German but not what I say I know Spanish?
I don't think I've said Spanish was for idiots, and if I implied it, then you have all the rights in the world to kick my ass as hard as you can. I wouldn't dare saying that a language is for idiots, for I respect anyone actually having the balls to learn something they didn't learn from within their mum's womb. In terms of general stupidity (nah, it's definitely not knowledge in this case), German grammar appear to be harder than Spanish grammar, and if Spanish is a warm and welcoming language, German seems to be a bit of a ***** when you get to a good level.

I don't agree. Most people are terrible at it, and it's always the ones who think it's easy who speak it badly. Sure, some people speak it really well but I have classes full of people who have been learning English for 10+ years and are still at pre-intermediate level. Sure, they probably had bad teachers, but if English is so easy, how come they weren't able to teach themselves?
Motivation? If you don't want to do something, you're likely to fail. Plenty of people at school realised that English was important and put enough efforts into learning it for them to reach a good level despite the crappiest teachers ever, but the lazy ones just wouldn't do anything. It's the same for maths, tbh, I had maths lessons for 15 years and I still can't do anything with it :erm:


I didn't say it was hard for me to learn, but I've never found any language particularly hard. Obviously it's going to be harder for a European to learn Chinese, that doesn't need to be said, but I don't know why Spanish is always singled out as 'the easy one' by people who butcher it when they speak.
That, I know not, and it shall remain a mystery. Or maybe they just imagine that knowing a bit of vocab and making sentences that sound right is all that's needed to speak it. When I say it's easy, and I probably should have mentioned that before, I'm not talking about a level above A-Level level, as you're meant to reach fluency after A2 and I'd definitely agree with anyone else that mastering a language isn't easy. I heard that German gets considerably harder in terms of grammar when you get to A-Level standard, and the difficulty, in French (imo), is mainly French slang. I find most English with a good level of French speak like books and literally no native speaks like they do.

You do have a really high level of English. I'm talking about the masses of people who think it's easy because it's 'I play, you play, we play' and are completely unaware of just how complex it really is. I always say it's easy to speak English badly, and I think the same applies to Spanish.
It can apply to any language, really, the thing is everyone will react differently to such or such language, so in the end, it may just be that most people end up struggling with German or prefer Spanish therefore fiding it easier, and creating this "Spanish is for idiots" phenomenon.

From my point of view (but it's seriously biased as I find romance languages easier to learn), Spanish seems easier to learn and speak, it's not as rigorous as German and not as silly as French. As for saying the vocab of French is more related to English than Spanish is to English, nah, I wouldn't agree. French and Spanish are close enough to have (imo), the same level of relation to English, even if I think it's easier to learn Spanish after your learnt French than French after you learnt Spanish.
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miniteen
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(Original post by Anatheme)
Mandarin is still one the hardest languages to learn in the world for an English speaker and it definitely will take you ages to learn it (surely more than 4 years)
Maybe you could review your statement. It really depends who.
Mandarin is, at a glance, the hardest language to learn. This being said, it really depends. The difficulty in Chinese is in the writing system and in the sound system. There is no difficulty whatsoever in the grammar. It takes 3 months to get a good gist of the tones. One can be fluent without necessarily knowing how to write everything, though it helps obviously.
This taken into account, one could say Chinese isn't that hard.
I know of someone who learned Chinese in a year btw. He was so good in just one year that he skipped two years of a full undergrad Chinese degree (which normally takes 4 years). Sure, he works like a maniac, but in my opinion uni shouldn't only be about having fun. Far from that. But he's capable of reading a Chinese newspaper. And no he hasn't been studying it in secret for another 7 years.
My chinese friends mistook him for a Chinese actually when they heard him, and when they saw him write. Though his face immediately told them otherwise. Lol.
I'm not saying Chinese is easy, and I don't believe just anyone can do it. It'll take years for some, but it demands work and motivation that's for sure. But from experience, I can say that Chinese is by far not the hardest language. Attacking Japanese grammar, and Korean pronunciation is, trust me, far beyond any difficulty Chinese has ever brought me. Oh, and I dropped out of Latin, Maltese (grammatically based on Arabic) and Greek because I was just so bad at grammar, and forever would be.
Basically, it really depends on who we're talking about I believe. Don't make hasty judgements.
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Anatheme
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(Original post by miniteen)
Maybe you could review your statement. It really depends who.
Mandarin is, at a glance, the hardest language to learn. This being said, it really depends. The difficulty in Chinese is in the writing system and in the sound system. There is no difficulty whatsoever in the grammar. It takes 3 months to get a good gist of the tones. One can be fluent without necessarily knowing how to write everything, though it helps obviously.
This taken into account, one could say Chinese isn't that hard.
I know of someone who learned Chinese in a year btw. He was so good in just one year that he skipped two years of a full undergrad Chinese degree (which normally takes 4 years). Sure, he works like a maniac, but in my opinion uni shouldn't only be about having fun. Far from that. But he's capable of reading a Chinese newspaper. And no he hasn't been studying it in secret for another 7 years.
My chinese friends mistook him for a Chinese actually when they heard him, and when they saw him write. Though his face immediately told them otherwise. Lol.
I'm not saying Chinese is easy, and I don't believe just anyone can do it. It'll take years for some, but it demands work and motivation that's for sure. But from experience, I can say that Chinese is by far not the hardest language. Attacking Japanese grammar, and Korean pronunciation is, trust me, far beyond any difficulty Chinese has ever brought me. Oh, and I dropped out of Latin, Maltese (grammatically based on Arabic) and Greek because I was just so bad at grammar, and forever would be.
Basically, it really depends on who we're talking about I believe. Don't make hasty judgements.
Cool story, bro
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littleshambles
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This thread has

a) Made me feel extremely stupid for learning Russian.
b) Motivated me to put Russian radio on and stop ******* about.
c) Made me feel a lot worse about how **** I am at inserting prepositions into empty spaces. Yeuch.

I will also say though:

a) That Anatheme, your English is really, really very good. Although I don't know how you speak in person your written facility is indistinguishable from full fluency, and your English is certainly much better than that of most native speakers. I rather pride myself on my ability to use English well as it's the only language I know, so to see someone evidently holding themselves to a much higher standard than me is a bit tbh. Yes on occasion you may drop the odd "foreign" turn of phrase or obscure mistake but it's hardly a capital crime.
b) I know I'm not going to be nearly as good at Russian when I finish university as someone else will be at a language they took from A Level. But I don't think that means that my degree will be useless to me in terms of actually being able to speak. I don't want to spend 4 years studying only to go off and get an office job as soon as I graduate and never use Russian again. I want to carry on learning after I graduate, to actually spend a sizeable portion of my life using this language that I am paying £30,000 to learn, to learn about the culture and the way of life of the people who use it, to get used to the sounds of the language and the way Russians think, to dream in Russian. Maybe I chose the wrong language, maybe I should have started learning something way earlier, maybe I'm past it. Maybe I'll never be fluent. But what else am I going to spend my life doing? You might as well do something and letting the high possibility of failure, letting your naivety get in the way I guess, would be far too timid. Like sticking your toe in the water but never going in.

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(Original post by Anatheme)
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littleshambles
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Oh, this thread is all two weeks old. Whoops.
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Anatheme
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(Original post by littleshambles)
This thread has

a) Made me feel extremely stupid for learning Russian.
b) Motivated me to put Russian radio on and stop ******* about.
c) Made me feel a lot worse about how **** I am at inserting prepositions into empty spaces. Yeuch.

I will also say though:

a) That Anatheme, your English is really, really very good. Although I don't know how you speak in person your written facility is indistinguishable from full fluency, and your English is certainly much better than that of most native speakers. I rather pride myself on my ability to use English well as it's the only language I know, so to see someone evidently holding themselves to a much higher standard than me is a bit tbh. Yes on occasion you may drop the odd "foreign" turn of phrase or obscure mistake but it's hardly a capital crime.
b) I know I'm not going to be nearly as good at Russian when I finish university as someone else will be at a language they took from A Level. But I don't think that means that my degree will be useless to me in terms of actually being able to speak. I don't want to spend 4 years studying only to go off and get an office job as soon as I graduate and never use Russian again. I want to carry on learning after I graduate, to actually spend a sizeable portion of my life using this language that I am paying £30,000 to learn, to learn about the culture and the way of life of the people who use it, to get used to the sounds of the language and the way Russians think, to dream in Russian. Maybe I chose the wrong language, maybe I should have started learning something way earlier, maybe I'm past it. Maybe I'll never be fluent. But what else am I going to spend my life doing? You might as well do something and letting the high possibility of failure, letting your naivety get in the way I guess, would be far too timid. Like sticking your toe in the water but never going in.
I can't see a single reason why you should feel stupid learning Russian. No you won't reach a perfect level of fluency after your degree, but unlike some languages (Arabic), when you go there you will definitely be able to communicate with people easily (at least for basic things like food, I still can't order food in Arabic, but I can talk to you about the creation of the UN :erm:).

If the aim of someone is to be really good at one or two languages by the end of their degree, then I would say they have more chance with European languages. They forgive a lot more than other languages, in my opinion, as they're a lot closer to English and not as difficult to pick when you don't make that much effort.

I mean in general, someone wondering whether they should choose between Arabic, Russian and Mandarin Chinese because one could be more useful than another shouldn't even try to study it at uni. They're the kind of language you study out of pure passion and that will get you nowhere if your only motivation is your CV. Imo, it's the kind of languages that you won't ask someone whether you should study them, you just know it's the right thing for you.

And apparently, I sound British to non-British people (apart from my Romanian/Canadian flatmate who's never heard a Scottish accent and thinks I have a very strong one ( :eyebrow: ), whereas people from L'pool ask me if I'm from "down south" (yeah, I guess I am, maybe a bit more down south than you'd think, though )). It's a lot more obvious to people who know me well or have heard me speaking English a lot, but other than that, I just have a "slight foreign accent" according to most people. That'll do, as long as you can't tell I'm French, I'm happy
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