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    (Original post by ZizAli)
    Fair enough if people were reacting so harshly to the Holocaust or terrorist activity. Religion does not promote either and promotes peace and morality whether it be Islam, Christianity or other any other major religion.
    This wouldn't of been so funny if it hasn't of been said in a thread about Islam. Those are your views about what religion is. Other people look on and form their own judgements. Your position is a failure to understand that others will hold a different opinion.

    I personally do not think religions promote peace nor what would I recognise as morality.

    For many people, the distinction between Nazi holocaust and Islamic invasion of India is tenuous at best when measured as an outrage against humanity.
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    Absolutely not.
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    I realise that the whole point of this debate was 'if,' but if one religion was proved true (which is impossible) then practically all religions would be proved one way or the other. And to answer your question, no I would never ever think of following islam.
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    i don't get how anyone can say that the Qur'an is the word of God, or any other religous book for that matter...God didn't write it...a human being did..!
    no i wouldn't follow islam...
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    (Original post by *Rouge*)
    i don't get how anyone can say that the Qur'an is the word of God, or any other religous book for that matter...God didn't write it...a human being did..!
    The point is that Muslims believe God wrote the Qur'an, even if you believe that humans did.

    (When I say "wrote", I mean "authored". Obviously humans were the ones who physically put the pen to the paper - But Muslims believe that the Qur'an is God's intellectual property, that he dictated, and humans wrote)
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    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    The point is that Muslims believe God wrote the Qur'an, even if you believe that humans did.

    (When I say "wrote", I mean "authored". Obviously humans were the ones who physically put the pen to the paper - But Muslims believe that the Qur'an is God's intellectual property, that he dictated, and humans wrote)
    this isn't just about the Qur'an, it's about any religious book...
    it just doesn't make sense to me that God 'told' a human what to write and he did..how can you trust what another man/woman wrote ande live by it..?same goes for things like homosexuality and not drinking...God didn't say they're wrong...we just assumed that he would want that...
    i do believe in God btw...
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    (Original post by enlightened)
    Proving that Islam is the truth ultimately, though not solely, lies in proving that the Qur'an is the word of God. (Other factors also need to be taken into account such as the biography of the Prophet Muhammad etc.)

    I've researched Islam quite thoroughly for about 7 years now and it does seem that Muslims have a real claim when it comes to proving God's existence and that their religion is a true religion from God. The evidence in their favour is overwhelming.

    Their main source of proof is the Qur'an, which they claim is a linguistic miracle in the Arabic language (an additional point may be noted, that the Prophet Muhammad was illiterate, this is a historical fact, asserted by both Muslims and non-Muslim orientalists) The Qur'an does have many scientific statements that have recently been proven to be true, but the Qur'an is primarily meant to be linguistic miracle and not a scientific one.
    Most people are largely ignorant of why it is that Muslims believe in what they believe in, thinking that it is a religion solely based on faith rather than proven fact.
    The Qur'an contains no contradictions, which one would find if it was the work of a man or men. Those who claim it has contradictions usually have a superficial understanding of the Qur'an and are mistaken, or perhaps knowingly try to mislead people.

    Here are a couple of videos that which discuss the imitability of the Qur'an and its miraculous nature.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zezBOtU2WGY

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irIS9osq6pI

    One that discusses the scientific miracles of the Qur'an:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUUPYs0gElU

    Say the Qur'an can be proven to be the words of Allah, or God, a number of facts would then be established:
    1) There is only one God, Allah
    2) Muhammad is a Prophet of God
    3) There is a Day of Judgement
    4) There is an eternal life of either Paradise or Hell
    5) The purpose of mans existence is to worship God (submit to him)
    6) Failing to become a Muslim after one has been exposed to Islam would doom one to Hell
    7) Angels exist
    8) Two angels record mans deeds (good and bad) from the moment of puberty till his/her death
    8) Eblis, or Satan, exists
    7) Each person has personal devil that is assigned to him from the moment of his birth till his death who incites him to evil, namely disbelieving in God and associating other gods with Him
    8) Jesus was never crucified
    9) Jesus shall return
    10) The theory that man evolved from apes is false

    If Islam can be proven to be the truth beyond all reasonable doubt and after considering the consequences of not following it, would you become a practising Muslim?
    This sounds like Taliban tripe to me.:eek:
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    (Original post by *Rouge*)
    this isn't just about the Qur'an, it's about any religious book...
    it just doesn't make sense to me that God 'told' a human what to write and he did..
    Why doesn't that make sense?
    God's supposed to be all powerful right? It shouldn't be too difficult for him to speak to humans?

    Muslims believe the Qur'an arrived in this manner, Jews and Christians believe the 10 Commandments arrived in this manner etc.

    how can you trust what another man/woman wrote and live by it..?
    If he brings you enough evidence that this book he has was actually dictated to him by God and not simply something he came up with himself?

    same goes for things like homosexuality and not drinking...God didn't say they're wrong...we just assumed that he would want that...
    I think that's where many religious people would disagree with you. A follower of an Abrahamic religion in particular would probably tell you that God actually said that certain things are right and wrong.

    i do believe in God btw...
    Do you belong to any particular religion?
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    I will try and answer your question OP.

    Proving that Islam is the truth ultimately, though not solely, lies in proving that the Qur'an is the word of God. (Other factors also need to be taken into account such as the biography of the Prophet Muhammad etc.)
    :rolleyes:

    I've researched Islam quite thoroughly for about 7 years now and it does seem that Muslims have a real claim when it comes to proving God's existence and that their religion is a true religion from God. The evidence in their favour is overwhelming.
    Believe me, I have also researched Islam, primarily because of all the preaching i used to get by some muslims about "scientific miracles" and what not. However what i realised while researching was that like every other religion, it has flaws, it has contradictions and it is just another religion, not anything close to a "true religion", just one more Holy Book .


    Their main source of proof is the Qur'an, which they claim is a linguistic miracle in the Arabic language (an additional point may be noted, that the Prophet Muhammad was illiterate, this is a historical fact, asserted by both Muslims and non-Muslim orientalists)
    Largely bias frankly, who are these people that make such claims? I think it's safe to say all religions are written in an archaic and metaphorical language. Many also feel their text is undoubtedly miraculously written, but there is nothing that would specifically differ the language from other religions books.

    The Qur'an does have many scientific statements that have recently been proven to be true
    I was hoping you'd say that, it's the number 1 response preachers learn to say to convice others. Again, you should have done more research becuase if you did you may have found out that the vast majority of these "scientific" claims/miracles are either plagiarised, wrong, or vague and another thing which may interest you is, other religions also have so called science in their holy books, maybe those others are true?

    but the Qur'an is primarily meant to be linguistic miracle and not a scientific one.
    Well that's a first, I've always heard it the other way around.


    Most people are largely ignorant of why it is that Muslims believe in what they believe in, thinking that it is a religion solely based on faith rather than proven fact.
    Well I for one am not ignorant, quite the contrary in fact, I like to learn however there would be no debate between atheists and religious folk if it was "proven fact" or the scientific community for that matter.:rolleyes:
    The honest truth though is that it is based on faith and blind belief that what's in the quran or their holy text, is fact.

    [B]The Qur'an contains no contradictions[b/] which one would find if it was the work of a man or men. Those who claim it has contradictions usually have a superficial understanding of the Qur'an and are mistaken, or perhaps knowingly try to mislead people.
    Every holy text contains contradictions whether you want to believe that or not even scientific books may sometimes contain contradictions. It only takes a goole search to find some, the problem is you get websites such as answering islam, answering hinduism etc. which try to respond and refute the argument, without actually answering the question, just wishy-washy quotes followed by wishy-washy explanations. And if you start your research partially believing your religion is true, you will be more on the biased wishy-washy argument side.

    Also perhaps those who claim they have the right understanding are just making words fit their argument, maybe they're the ones trying to mislead gullible people like you?

    Here are a couple of videos that which discuss the imitability of the Qur'an and its miraculous nature.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zezBOtU2WGY

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irIS9osq6pI

    One that discusses the scientific miracles of the Qur'an:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUUPYs0gElU
    I didn't watch those videos because I see no point. I'll do my own research not listen to religious apologetics.

    This man thinks Christianity is true:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRi3FNQCs4w

    Sikh Miracles:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvQ0-uhl_Ms

    Christianity Miracles:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XN0cit0XFDs

    I have a feeling you won't watch the above videos for the same reason as me.

    Say the Qur'an can be proven to be the words of Allah, or God, a number of facts would then be established:
    1) There is only one God, Allah
    2) Muhammad is a Prophet of God
    3) There is a Day of Judgement
    4) There is an eternal life of either Paradise or Hell
    5) The purpose of mans existence is to worship God (submit to him)
    6) Failing to become a Muslim after one has been exposed to Islam would doom one to Hell
    7) Angels exist
    8) Two angels record mans deeds (good and bad) from the moment of puberty till his/her death
    8) Eblis, or Satan, exists
    7) Each person has personal devil that is assigned to him from the moment of his birth till his death who incites him to evil, namely disbelieving in God and associating other gods with Him
    8) Jesus was never crucified
    9) Jesus shall return
    10) The theory that man evolved from apes is false
    Indeed, but since it has not been and will most likely never be we can assume:
    1) There may or may not be a God, since the evidence to date shows that this is incredibly unlikely.
    2) Muhammad was just another man.
    3) There is no Day of Judgement, just a fictional story.
    4) There is no afterlife. Period.
    5) The purpose of mans existence is to reproduce and enjoy out one and only life to the fullest.
    6) Failing to become a Muslim after one has been exposed to Islam would make you a rational thinker who isn't easily brainwashed.
    7) Angels are fiction.
    8) Two angels do not exist.
    8) Eblis, or Satan do not exists
    7) Each person does not have a personal devil.
    8) Jesus was just another man.
    9) Jesus was just a normal human being.
    10) The theory that man evolved from apes is false, well this is already false since we didn't evolve from apes, but Evolution would still remain fact.

    If Islam can be proven to be the truth beyond all reasonable doubt and after considering the consequences of not following it, would you become a practising Muslim?
    I know you will probably not believe me, but if it could be "proven beyond all reasonable doubt" I would get on my knees and beg for forgiveness straight away and not just for Islam but any other religion. However this will never happen because I like Science and empirical evidence and religion does not offer this.

    Hope I answered your questions. If you want quotes, contradictions, examples of what i said above or just ask me something PM me.

    Bye.
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    I didn't look at any posts here, Just the thread title. And my answer is "no".

    And my question is "Why does this just concern Islam?"
    Why not any other religion? My answer would still be a resounding "no", but I don't see why it would make a different whether it was one religion or another...
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    (Original post by RyanT)
    This wouldn't of been so funny if it hasn't of been said in a thread about Islam. Those are your views about what religion is. Other people look on and form their own judgements. Your position is a failure to understand that others will hold a different opinion.

    I personally do not think religions promote peace nor what would I recognise as morality.

    For many people, the distinction between Nazi holocaust and Islamic invasion of India is tenuous at best when measured as an outrage against humanity.
    This is becoming increasingly annoying. The failure is all on your behalf mate. I never once objected to others having opinions, I object to the way in which some losers put thier opinion forward. Islam does not promote terrorism either. Therefore you have done nothing but failed in everything you have said and seeing as you are unlikely to appologise for wasting mine and everyone elses time I simply ask that you don't do it again.
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    Yes. But it would take a lot to convince me that something that abstract is true
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    hahahaha no way
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    (Original post by Rizwani)
    if he wants to tell people good news, he can. End Quote
    Good, Okay... how much goodness have you heard as of yet? out of 100+replies was any reflecting the true nature of Islam? You really think copying some youtube clip or pasting out a link would really help?To you and me it is but would it be the same to the rest? Especially after the stereotype Islams got which is nobody but us to blame.
    OUT
    Side note: I keep seeing Islamic posts day after day , very few do have any impact to folks around here (my personal opinion) .Besides OP Good luck with it , if you so want to let others know about islam you should have counter arguemented quarter of the comments the least or perhaps shown a sign, but from what it looks all you did was made a list, copy pasted that.Job Done.
    Bottom-line: My suggestion to you, create a religious forum(on Islam or whatever you like) post the info you got and perhaps have a debate. Seeing that you have been studying and i assume believing as well?it shouldn't be a problem i hope.Peace
    Edit: Oh darn , mis-quoted .
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    So many abusive people it's like they are scared and insecure from religion so they are quick to attack it.
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    I'm going to be annoying and diverge...

    What is this "Truth" you speak of?

    "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
    - Buddha


    (This is my cop-out way of saying believe what the heck you want and leave others to it.)
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    Perhaps.
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    Yes I would, but I wouldn't be happy about it.

    Edit: though maybe not, I'm probably already going to Hell...
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    I'll decide when and if it's proven true, but i doubt it ever will be.
    • Thread Starter
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    (Original post by Simisanerd)
    You don't have to start abusing the dude, simply disagree and that is that. Show some respect to other peoples faith/beliefs, even if you don't accept/understand them.

    Jeez. People these days. :facepalm:
    Thanks
 
 
 
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