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    I'll believe it when I see it. I don't need to believe there is more to life!
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    dude, the battle was won on intellectual ground about 80 years ago. There is no intellectual battle, it's over.

    Until Its accepted the battle is not yet over.

    It may be won but its not yet over.
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    Is it not just an application of Occam's razor - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor ?

    'When competing hypotheses are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selection of the hypothesis that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest entities while still sufficiently answering the question.'

    And then combine that with the scientific method, particularly that any theory or belief should expose itself to being proved false?

    So Darwin's theory of evolution can easily be proved to be false - find a layer of rock of the same age that contains a fossilised rabbit and a fossilised dinosaur. That would mean Darwin was wrong. Of the hundreds of millions of fossils found, no such anomaly has been found (despite the scientific community taking the greatest delight in proving previously held theories to be false and actively seeking to do so).

    So if we start with the belief in God - what is the test that can be practically applied to demonstrate this belief to be false? If it survives that test (and like scientific theories, a constant barrage of such tests) then it starts to look more promising. Theories that make no testable (disprovable) predictions cannot be considered to be as 'true' as those that have withstood decades of intense scrutiny.
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    (Original post by smile_again91)
    funny, because i did my theory of knowledge oral presentation on the exact same topic...

    I personally thought that atheism is not a religion. What you are saying is right and i agree with it, but thats just because what i think of atheism and your definition of atheism is different.

    for me, atheism= Not believing that god exists
    NOT atheism = believing that god doesnt exist.

    Of course. It is entirely dependant upon how you look it at.

    (Original post by daytona01)
    Interesting how, without science, religion would not exist
    Care to explain how?
    I am not entirely sure I buy that...

    The big question being, is it true that without religion science would not exist?
    I think that it is clear that religion has done science great favours and disservices. Excelled the scientific mind of humans and hindered our scientific development.

    I'm not atheist for a religious reason like you state, i'm atheist for a psychological reason. If your going to classify atheism as a religion please be aware that many atheists are scientists who will believe the hard facts, we don't put our faith in something we cannot objectively measure and we tend to be open-minded. Religion is a personal thing but more often than not an atheist will want the truth, not to preach their beliefs to others
    Religion is a blind belief in God and completing what they believe is Gods will.
    Atheism; in my view, is a blind belief in the non existence of God.

    Neither; again in my opinion, have scientific evidence. My view is that when looking at the Universe, if a God doesn't exist, I would be wholly disappointed. The Universe is amazing and we hardly know a thing.

    Additionally, before we rule out the existence of God, I believe we must also define what God is; or what we believe God to be.
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    (Original post by vas876)
    Until Its accepted the battle is not yet over.

    It may be won but its not yet over.
    The battle to educate people is ongoing I agree; however the intellectual battle is long gone. The last remaining theist argument was successfully dismantled almost 100 years ago. Modern day theists rehashing the same old discredited arguments in the hope that no-one will point out the flaws is cynical propaganda, not intellectual debate.
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    All the science I have been taught throughout my education doesnt leave much room for a "god" to fit in or make sense.
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    (Original post by Teaddict)

    Religion is a blind belief in God and completing what they believe is Gods will.
    Atheism; in my view, is a blind belief in the non existence of God.

    Neither; again in my opinion, have scientific evidence. My view is that when looking at the Universe, if a God doesn't exist, I would be wholly disappointed. The Universe is amazing and we hardly know a thing.

    Additionally, before we rule out the existence of God, I believe we must also define what God is; or what we believe God to be.
    Thats a strawman: most atheists don't believe in the non-existence of god. They simply think that it is either intinsically unknowable or hugely unlikely depending on exactly what kind of god we are talking about.
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    (Original post by py0alb)
    Thats a strawman: most atheists don't believe in the non-existence of god. They simply think that it is either intinsically unknowable or hugely unlikely depending on exactly what kind of god we are talking about.
    If people accept that humans could not comprehend or know what God is, or ever discover "it" then why be an atheist? Surely they would be agnostic?

    Why is it unlikely? The Universe is huge... there are single stars that are far beyond comprehension... explosions that cross a galaxy... galaxies ramming into each other... objects going so fast that it becomes a blur...

    Frankly, if God doesn't exist, the Universe is crap... If we assume God is an almighty being of great consciousness why is that hard to believe? humans evolved from bacteria, developed a consciousness and have dominated this planet...

    What stopped another creature on another world evolving far beyond what we have?
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    If people accept that humans could not comprehend or know what God is, or ever discover "it" then why be an atheist? Surely they would be agnostic?

    Why is it unlikely? The Universe is huge... there are single stars that are far beyond comprehension... explosions that cross a galaxy... galaxies ramming into each other... objects going so fast that it becomes a blur...

    Frankly, if God doesn't exist, the Universe is crap... If we assume God is an almighty being of great consciousness why is that hard to believe? humans evolved from bacteria, developed a consciousness and have dominated this planet...

    What stopped another creature on another world evolving far beyond what we have?
    You appear to be contradicting yourself a bit.

    If god is some intrinsically unknowable entity, why do we even bother to discuss him seeing as we are never going to get anywhere by definition? What a waste of time.

    Or then you say he is a super advanced alien, made of the same matter as the rest of the universe, in which case he is distinctly knowable, and science applies to studying him. You would think we would have found some evidence if he was interfering with stuff on earth. I think you've been watching starship troopers 3 too many times.

    As for "if God doesn't exist, the Universe is crap", speak for yourself. Most atheists are more excited by how awesome the universe is than any theists.
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    If people accept that humans could not comprehend or know what God is, or ever discover "it" then why be an atheist? Surely they would be agnostic?
    I think you have confused atheism with antitheism.

    Why is it unlikely? The Universe is huge... there are single stars that are far beyond comprehension... explosions that cross a galaxy... galaxies ramming into each other... objects going so fast that it becomes a blur...
    And you think these things make an omnipotent and omniscient being which has an interest in what we eat and how we have sex more possible?? :lolwut:

    Frankly, if God doesn't exist, the Universe is crap...
    Why exactly?


    What stopped another creature on another world evolving far beyond what we have?

    What stopped a galaxy which exactly resembles that depicted in Star Wars from existing? What stops intergalactic dragonfllys from existing?

    All these things could very well exist, but there is absolutely no evidence they do, and you should be prepared to acccept that the idea of God exists on the same level as the idea of other fantastic creatures.

    Do you believe in interstellar pigs? If not, then why not?
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    (Original post by flowerness)
    What are your reasons for not believing in a God or religion?!

    This is a really short message but I'd like to see what people say first then I'll contribute
    for the same reason I dont believe in Santa Claus. Child-like fantasy...
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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    And you think these things make an omnipotent and omniscient being which has an interest in what we eat and how we have sex more possible??

    That is not what I said.
    I merely believe that if all this can happen, and certainly much more impressive feats, then why is the probability of "God" existing small?



    What stopped a galaxy which exactly resembles that depicted in Star Wars from existing? What stops intergalactic dragonfllys from existing?
    Nothing stops it.
    All these things could very well exist, but there is absolutely no evidence they do, and you should be prepared to acccept that the idea of God exists on the same level as the idea of other fantastic creatures.

    Do you believe in interstellar pigs? If not, then why not?
    Interstellar pigs could well exist.
    I would not say whether or not I believe in them unless I had proof. As that may be impossible to gather, I can say I am agnostic to the existence of Interstellar pigs (though to be honest, I would quite like them to exist, just for the brilliance of interstellar pigs)..

    (Original post by py0alb)
    If god is some intrinsically unknowable entity, why do we even bother to discuss him seeing as we are never going to get anywhere by definition? What a waste of time.

    Or then you say he is a super advanced alien, made of the same matter as the rest of the universe, in which case he is distinctly knowable, and science applies to studying him. You would think we would have found some evidence if he was interfering with stuff on earth. I think you've been watching starship troopers 3 too many times.
    I have never actually seen Starship troopers 3.
    But my point is that there are so many variables and I was trying to detail a couple. Can humans comprehend or understand God? What is God? there are so many questions that just don't have answers or may never have answers.

    As for "if God doesn't exist, the Universe is crap", speak for yourself. Most atheists are more excited by how awesome the universe is than any theists.
    I didn't mean crap literally...
    The Universe is absolutely amazing... make no doubt of that. It is absolutely fascinating. But if some superior consciousness doesn't exist, the Universe won't be as impressive to me as it would be if the consciousness existed.
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    I have never actually seen Starship troopers 3.
    But my point is that there are so many variables and I was trying to detail a couple. Can humans comprehend or understand God? What is God? there are so many questions that just don't have answers or may never have answers.



    I didn't mean crap literally...
    The Universe is absolutely amazing... make no doubt of that. It is absolutely fascinating. But if some superior consciousness doesn't exist, the Universe won't be as impressive to me as it would be if the consciousness existed.
    Its the one where he thinks god is speaking to him, but it turns out its just a super intelligent and super gross alien. But he doesn't realise - until its too late!!!

    Personally I think the universe is far more impressive in that something so huge and complex all arose spontaneously just by following a few simple laws for 13 billions years. Thats far cooler than some dude in the sky playing sim city.

    But each to their own, I suppose . I'm a type 2 atheist and you're a type 1 theist. vive la difference.
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    That is not what I said.
    I merely believe that if all this can happen, and certainly much more impressive feats, then why is the probability of "God" existing small?

    You seem to be defining God as simply a hypercomplex being. Which of course is entirely possible. But i take it from your post that you imply he would be of this universe?

    My argument is against the God which is defined in Human religion. Namely an omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent being who interferes in ancient history and listens to our prayers, makes rules concerning sex, food, agriculture etc..etc..etc.. And who will judge us when we die.



    Interstellar pigs could well exist.
    I would not say whether or not I believe in them unless I had proof. As that may be impossible to gather, I can say I am agnostic to the existence of Interstellar pigs (though to be honest, I would quite like them to exist, just for the brilliance of interstellar pigs)..
    Me too...Imagine the bacon. :moon:

    Where does your agnosticism end? At what point do you start to believe? Or are you uncertain of all claims of knowledge.


    As for God, although both belief and disbelief take faith. The faith is in no way equal, not by a long shot. Especially when comparing say, Atheism and any of the Abrahamic beliefs.
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    (Original post by CMJBGBWC)
    Well then what you're saying there is "I will believe in whatever I was taught first".

    As you probably know already, there is insurmountable evidence in favour of the theory of evolution, and it is scientific theory (i.e. a fact in simple terms).

    Please now don't tell me you believe the Abrahamic version of events?
    But the Qur'an states evolution. And as I said before as well as the obvious scientific evidence I also believe what the QUr'an teaches which is what scientists believe on evolution today.
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    (Original post by iffi)
    These are ideas to make you understand why you should believe in Islam:

    To begin with here are 3 short stories..
    1)Once, all villagers decidd to pray for rain, on the day of prayer all people gathered and onnly one boy came with and umberella. THAT'S FAITH.
    2)Example of the feeling of a one year old baby. When you throw him in the air, he laughs becuase he knows you will cathc him. THAT'S TRUST.
    3)Every night we go to bed, we have no assurance to wake up alive the next morning, but still we have plans for tomorrow. THAT'S HOPE.
    May God be above you-fr blessings.
    Below you-for support
    Before you- for guidance
    Behind you- for protection
    Besdie you-for comfort
    In your heart-for suustainance!
    And as i would say, Ameen!
    I am a muslim and in Islam, there are 99 names of Allah. one of them includes Al-Mu'min. It means Guardian of faith-He who places faith in the heart of His servants, protects those who seek refuge in Him, and gives tranquility.
    Please feel free to ask some questions, im sorry if i have bored you.
    I'm an atheist, but I will grant you that is beautiful. It's a beautiful piece of writing, and I can see it would be lovely to believe in it.

    In fact, I can see how all religions must give people a sense of meaning, purpose in life, a guide for living their life in what the religion considers to be a "good" way, and the comfort of knowing they are not alone, all the hardship they go through in life will not be for nothing, and when they die it will not be the end.

    However, as an atheist I get all of these things in other ways (which I can explain if anyone wants me to although I won't right now in case I'm waffling). I don't believe in any religion. I can't believe in any religion. And to me, the world is infinitely wonderful and beautiful and life is just as rich and meaningful without it.

    I am fine with people being religious, I don't see a need to belittle them or make fun of them for something that makes them happy. All I would say, is that I would not force my beliefs onto them or pester them with it, and I think they should do the same. The people I absolutely don't agree with are the evangelists preaching loudly and condemning non-believers, those who start wars or conflicts because of differences in religion, and those who think they are better than other people because of their beliefs. If it doesn't hurt anyone else and they're not forcing it on anyone else, leave them be.
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    (Original post by lazyswot)
    I'm an atheist, but I will grant you that is beautiful. It's a beautiful piece of writing, and I can see it would be lovely to believe in it.

    In fact, I can see how all religions must give people a sense of meaning, purpose in life, a guide for living their life in what the religion considers to be a "good" way, and the comfort of knowing they are not alone, all the hardship they go through in life will not be for nothing, and when they die it will not be the end.
    Thank you. You just made my day
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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    You seem to be defining God as simply a hyper complex being. Which of course is entirely possible. But i take it from your post that you imply he would be of this universe?
    A creature from another Universe is entirely possible.
    It is entirely possible that our Universe is merely the waste product of another Universe...

    The possibilities are endless!


    My argument is against the God which is defined in Human religion. Namely an omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent being who interferes in ancient history and listens to our prayers, makes rules concerning sex, food, agriculture etc..etc..etc.. And who will judge us when we die.
    This comment I like because you have taken a very specific view... I still believe you are wrong to rule it out, but each to their own





    Me too...Imagine the bacon.
    Interstellar pork with a touch of inter-galactic seasoning...
    Where does your agnosticism end? At what point do you start to believe? Or are you uncertain of all claims of knowledge.
    Like you, I trust in science. However, my agnosticism stems from an inability for science to prove it otherwise. In my view, there are so many things about this Universe we don't know, and will never know that I feel I cannot make a decision.

    Thus agnostic.

    As for God, although both belief and disbelief take faith. The faith is in no way equal, not by a long shot. Especially when comparing say, Atheism and any of the Abrahamic beliefs.
    Didn't say they were equal, just that I believe they were both "religions".

    few simple laws for 13 billions years. Thats far cooler than some dude in the sky playing sim city.
    [/quote]

    Again, this comes down to what is God?
    Everything we assume about God could be entirely correct.
    It is entirely plausible to assume the Universe was created via the big bang (what caused that I haven't a clue...) and God simply followed through the process of evolution...

    God could be a name we give a force...

    Personally, I am not happy with the view that God plays sim city, however, I am open minded to the possibility that that is true - Though I agree with you, the Universe would become less impressive.

    But each to their own, I suppose . I'm a type 2 atheist and you're a type 1 theist. vive la difference.
    Type 1 theist?
    I am not religious -_- Agnostic
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    Hello, my name is the Classical God of antiquity, e.g. the Christian God or any sort of God really it doesn't really matter and I have recently created all life and hence the universe. I created the universe so that it would expand away from a single point through the big bang's singularity which is in fact a portion of my nature. I am eternal and it is unfair to question how I came into being because even I do not have any satisfactory answers. I feel the need to share my achievements with conscious minds, and have chosen a planet on the periphery of a backwater galaxy to do so. Life has come consciously into this planet very recently, by my clock, because I am eternal, but I cannot wait until this species which is very likely to die out soon because of the superb quality of my design which meant that 99% of all species which have ever lived has died, but I am so bloody egotistical (and i have a right to be due to the grand 'design' of my creation through which we get loving chaos such as earthquakes and wars) that i have decided to tell primitive savage nomads in what will become Iraq (and didn't that holy war turn out well) of my existence. I have written them a rulebook in which i decree homosexuality, women, people who play with dead cows skin etc as evil and to be controlled because I am divine and what I say goes. I am God and I am omnipotent only I am not omnipotent because people die and humans are flawed and so if I am a God I am a pathetic weak God. My preachers and men of action fly planes into buildings and kill doctors who perform abortions and preach vitriolic hatred but those are the sort of stupid people who'll believe whatever the pastor tells them so they'll have to do. There is no evidence for my existence due to the fact that I am divine and so you young turks can't understand my being, and I'm so infinitely beautifully divine I can't find it within myself to give any more evidence than the writings of ancient texts and the occasional 'miracle' which often haven't really happened or are patently untrue but you chaps just don't understand because you are skeptic fools who will burn in my happy fire playhouse run by a horned beast who used to be cool but then got too big for his boots so we had a scuffle and i won. You'll burn for eternity for your various sins because I'm a nice, loving entity really and decent people (namely Americans) need something to keep them through the unending winter of their lives. I am vindictive and cruel but still worship me because theres nothing better you could be doing like laughing with friends or watching waterfalls or looking at the impossible beauty of the constellations and wondering of the majesty of it all which is all the more lovely when you realize that you can explain it, and don't worry about these lives because you get to live in eternity whereas the happy people who looked for truth are going to purgatory because I'm a jealous chap. I created many religions in the world because I was bored and wanted something to do and in no way does that serve to argue against my own existence.

    I am God because I say so. Goodbye.
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    (Original post by Orwell)
    Hello, my name is the Classical God of antiquity.
    Hello, and welcome to thestudentroom.com.
 
 
 
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