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The lack of patriotism and sheer self-hatred on this site disgusts me... watch

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    People here are leftist, and that just goes to prove it.
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    (Original post by Skye333)
    Well... it is a prblem site basically, so eveyone hates stuff.

    I love this country though, so good for this thread, people piss me off so much :mad:, saying it's a crap hole, go off and live somewhere with no NHS or dole money then, huh?
    It is a **** hole, but everywhere is a **** hole to me and this **** hole happens to be MY **** hole.
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    (Original post by ak56)
    The basic ethos of this site is that British patriotism is very negative, we should be ashamed of our behaviour, other cultures have every right to hate us and pick us up on our cultural short-comings, we have no right to critise foreigners because by default everything they do is better than us - they dress better than us, they are more intelligent than us, they are better looking than us, less sexually premocious, society has lower crime, blah blah blah.

    I'm sure you don't care, but I have used this site for years, and I often have to take a break from posting because of the sheer liberal negativity and pompousness, and how quite frankly anti-British this site is, it sometimes does get really grating and depressing to read just how much of the country's youth seem to hate themselves and their culture.

    I suspect 80% of you will eventually grow out of your stupid liberal, apologist, pompous views while the remaining 20% will become aging communists.

    But to me, the sheer level of self-hatred towards your own identity of this website is highly depressing, and definitely goes against what would be considered natural self-preservation and self-respect.
    Patriotism turns a lot of things into some kind of nasty competition. I'll use today's Australian Open final as an example - whenever Murray scored a point, the Brits were up, shaking their fists and baring their teeth. Why should we behave like that? It was needless aggressive behaviour which is both pathetic and demeaning. (It should be about the sport, not the country, anyway.) In fact, I was embarrassed by their behaviour - I felt as if they were showing our country up.

    I prefer to be proud of myself and the people I know - instead of, for example, some guy I've never met who's won a Olympic gold medal in a sport I couldn't care less about.

    The majority of patriotic people in this country are funnily enough, the scum who also happen to be racist - and who we could frankly do without. I'd prefer my wonderful, hard-working and decent immigrant friends to that white trash any day.

    You're clearly not the most intelligent of people - TSR is hardly representative of Britain's youth as a whole, so to make judgements based on it is just folly.
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    (Original post by effofex)
    In that case they are specifying their preference of certain 'value systems':

    e.g. rule of law, parliamentary democracy etc.

    They are not proud of the nationality per se.
    Surely that is patriotism. If it wasnt people would not be so resistant to being invaded as long as they remained on the same piece of land as they are so proud of, for example.
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    (Original post by ak56)
    Patriotism is logicial because you are what you are as a result of the culture you were brought up in, your views, your values, your outlooks, your accent, the language you speak, your behaviour is largely as a result of your culture, and to deny your culture as an extremely important part of your being is absurd.

    To not be proud of your culture to me is to not be proud of yourself and what you are. However, most people on this site aren't very proud of themselves, slap the average TSR member in the face and he'd probably offer you the other cheek and ask what he could do so he doesn't upset you again.
    Not necessarily. The boy at Eton wouldn't have any of the things you listed (except language - and even then only to an extent) with the boy off the council estate. At the same time, the two boys who live within a mile of each other along the Northern Irish/Irish border would probably have many things in common. To say, "Oh, he was born within X geopolitical area, and therefore is going to have the same views and values as everyone else there" is a bit daft.
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    (Original post by around)
    Maybe it's a 'being educated' thing?

    just a thought

    exactly, its always the intellgentsia who are the most left-wing section of society
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    (Original post by whisperings)
    Patriotism turns a lot of things into some kind of nasty competition. I'll use today's Australian Open final as an example - whenever Murray scored a point, the Brits were up, shaking their fists and baring their teeth. Why should we behave like that? It was needless aggressive behaviour which is both pathetic and demeaning. (It should be about the sport, not the country, anyway.)
    It wasn't needless, it was all in a good spirit. Something pathetic and demeaning would be sending a barrage of insults down to Federer while he was playing a point.
    I dont think you call hardly call it aggressive either, I mean you see that sort of behavior from both sets of fans in an Ashes test match. It doesnt descend into fights, its just a bit of banter in an competitive but importantly freindly rivalry.
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    (Original post by Banburyhammer)
    Surely that is patriotism. If it wasnt people would not be so resistant to being invaded as long as they remained on the same piece of land as they are so proud of, for example.
    I think the difference is between 'blind patriotism' and 'justifiable patriotism' (again this is subjective).

    There are people who are proud of the value systems rather than saying they are proud of x country because they are born in it.

    The issue isn't really with patriotism regarding invasion, rather than a belief in collective ownership of a landmass which individuals would rather not have forcibly wrested away from them. It is simply about defending land. A Qatari investor with land in London who is about to lose it as a result of people squatting on it may attempt to 'defend' it. It's unlikely he would do this because he is 'proud to be a Qatari'.
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    (Original post by effofex)
    I think the difference is between 'blind patriotism' and 'justifiable patriotism' (again this is subjective).

    There are people who are proud of the value systems rather than saying they are proud of x country because they are born in it.

    The issue isn't really with patriotism regarding invasion, rather than a belief in collective ownership of a landmass which individuals would rather not have forcibly wrested away from them. It is simply about defending land. A Qatari investor with land in London who is about to lose it as a result of people squatting on it may attempt to 'defend' it. It's unlikely he would do this because he is 'proud to be a Qatari'.
    Then I can see your arguement against 'blind patriotism', I think which sort we are all on about needs to be clarified.
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    (Original post by ak56)
    The basic ethos of this site is that British patriotism is very negative, we should be ashamed of our behaviour, other cultures have every right to hate us and pick us up on our cultural short-comings, we have no right to critise foreigners because by default everything they do is better than us - they dress better than us, they are more intelligent than us, they are better looking than us, less sexually premocious, society has lower crime, blah blah blah.

    I'm sure you don't care, but I have used this site for years, and I often have to take a break from posting because of the sheer liberal negativity and pompousness, and how quite frankly anti-British this site is, it sometimes does get really grating and depressing to read just how much of the country's youth seem to hate themselves and their culture.

    I suspect 80% of you will eventually grow out of your stupid liberal, apologist, pompous views while the remaining 20% will become aging communists.

    But to me, the sheer level of self-hatred towards your own identity of this website is highly depressing, and definitely goes against what would be considered natural self-preservation and self-respect.

    I agreee with 100%

    it saddens me to see the british youth act like this.
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    You know what patriotism is? Raise a baby in a cellar and he'll be proud of it. That's why Natascha Kampusch bought the house she was locked in. It's illogical!
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    Well, my problem is that the patriotism we often actually encounter is hardly anything to do with just being proud of your own country. It's often just xenophobia mixed with overzealous displays of adoration. Nothing wrong with having a sense of pride about your country- but you don't need to be all showy and annoying about it.
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    (Original post by Banburyhammer)
    It wasn't needless, it was all in a good spirit. Something pathetic and demeaning would be sending a barrage of insults down to Federer while he was playing a point.
    I dont think you call hardly call it aggressive either, I mean you see that sort of behavior from both sets of fans in an Ashes test match. It doesnt descend into fights, its just a bit of banter in an competitive but importantly freindly rivalry.
    If it was all in good spirit, as you say, then why wouldn't smiling, cheering and clapping suffice? Why did the fans have to act as if they were trying to intimidate the other side? It's just a sport, not some kind of fight. I didn't see many Swiss fans behaving in the same way.
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    (Original post by innerhollow)
    Well, my problem is that the patriotism we often actually encounter is hardly anything to do with just being proud of your own country. It's often just xenophobia mixed with overzealous displays of adoration. Nothing wrong with having a sense of pride about your country- but you don't need to be all showy and annoying about it.
    Well put!
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    (Original post by whisperings)
    If it was all in good spirit, as you say, then why wouldn't smiling, cheering and clapping suffice? Why did the fans have to act as if they were trying to intimidate the other side? It's just a sport, not some kind of fight. I didn't see many Swiss fans behaving in the same way.
    Because (this is gonna sound sexist) the majority of people in the crowd of a test match will be men, and so a bit of banter just comes naturally.
    Unless your on about the Australian Open final, in which case, us brits are jsut a bit louder i suppose, but i wouldnt say more aggresive. I repeat, there was nothing abusive at all. No songs about the fildelity about his wife, about his capabilities as a player, looking odd (im taking all of this from a typical football match)
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    (Original post by Cesare Borgia)
    This. Would you prefer us all weeping over the jack?


    It goes without saying.
    Its the Union Flag. It is only the Union Jack when it is at the front of a ship.

    Carry on other wise
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    Anyone else thinking of the corelation between intelligence (spending x amount of time on a student fourm) and liberal attitudes?

    To the OP - Calm down. We all love some aspects of the UK, and some of other countrys. Isnt it more important to be proud to be moral/ethical/free/given chances in life ?

    And feel like giving us an example of "self hating" ? Because it sounds like something straight out of the daily mail regarding patriotism
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    As a tiny (relatively) island/isles in the Atlantic, I think it's fair to say that we can take pride in our Scientific/Technological advances that we have contributed to the world, and for a country the size of ours to be the world's greatest power for 125 or so years- that takes some doing. However, I don't subscribe to the tub-thumping notion that a considerable amount of Americans (for example) have to the flag (ie some Americans find it "unpatriotic" when another family doesn't display the flag in the vicinity of their house).
    Also, we created Carling, Monty Python, Alan Partridge and ...... Derby County FC!!!!!!!!!
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    (Original post by effofex)
    Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

    Do people here think I should be proud to be male because Albert Einstein was male and that I share my gender with him?

    Likewise should I be ashamed of the fact that I am male and Adolf Hitler & Josef Dzughashivilli were male too?

    Why be proud to be of x/y/z nationality if you haven't EARNED that nationality?
    Technically, you never "earned" the right to be alive considering you're simply a consequence of the merging of two very-specific reproductive cells that, at a different time, and place - involving two different people - would've brought about someone completely different. All your ancestors were also the result of the aforementioned process. Evidently, then, following your logic, you shouldn't be proud of the nearly impossible fact that you are alive, or any of your positive attributes e.g. aesthetic or cognitive qualities, that allow you to "earn" things.

    Furthermore, your references to gender are significantly flawed. Can you point me to a single patriot who says that they're proud to be British on the sole basis that, for example, Winston Churchill was British, or that they're ashamed to be British because Oswald Mosley and Nick Griffin were/are British? I seriously cannot see the point you're making. Patriotism is a feeling of identity under a common banner that's shared with others, in the same sense that a person shares an identity with the school they're at, the university they attend, the football team they support, etc. The fact that there may be football hooligans - or a school bully - still does nothing to subvert this feeling of identity.
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    (Original post by necessarily benevolent)
    Technically, you never "earned" the right to be alive considering you're simply a consequence of the merging of two very-specific reproductive cells that, at a different time, and place - involving two different people - would've brought about someone completely different. All your ancestors were also the result of the aforementioned process. Evidently, then, following your logic, you shouldn't be proud of the fact that you are alive (or any of your positive attributes e.g. aesthetic or cognitive qualities).

    Furthermore, your references to gender are significantly flawed. Can you point me to a single patriot who says that they're proud to be British on the sole basis that, for example, Winston Churchill was British, or that they're ashamed to be British because Oswald Mosley and Nick Griffin were/are British? I seriously cannot see the point you're making. Patriotism is a feeling of identity under a common banner that's shared with others, in the same sense that a person shares an identity with the school they're at, the university they attend, the football team they support, etc. The fact that there may be football hooligans - or a school bully - still does nothing to subvert this feeling of identity.
    To the latter post, i believe the point was adressing how patriots view individual achievements as national achievements, and thus believe individuals such as Winston Churchill give some merit or dividend to them.
 
 
 
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