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The lack of patriotism and sheer self-hatred on this site disgusts me... watch

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    (Original post by xptos1)
    One of thousands of examples can just be the fact that the country is ruled by a Scotsman, and he's not the only one.
    Scotland is part of Britain. A Scot has as much right to be the PM as a Welsh or English person does.

    Most people aren't patriotic because there's really no reason to be. This country lets anyone in, there's no jobs, the country's in huge debt, there's high crime rates, ultimately, Labour are in power which is the root of it all.
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    :emo:



    You people make my cry.

    Is it so hard to be both patriotic and socially liberal o the max like myself? Is it??!?!?!?!?!


    :cry:
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    (Original post by NoneGuy)
    I live in Birmingham so know fully well how many Muslims are here when compared with normal people.

    Do you not feel threatened in how Islam says those who deny Islam shall die?

    Are you not upset we are going extinct in this world?

    :sigh:
    Dude, are you for real?

    Nobody is stopping a 'normal' guy from shagging a 'normal' girl and getting her preggers. And if by 'we' you mean ignorant scum such as yourself, then I don't see the problem with the extinction you mentioned.

    Edit: I was wondering how long it'd be before somebody tried to turn this into a ZOMG MUSLIMS thread.
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    (Original post by xptos1)
    And by the way just imagine the thing in my case. Portugal and Spain.

    We actually go to Spain and we can speak Portuguese that Spanish people understand and vice-versa. Then if you would join Both countries together which also have similar but different culture and would make some acts and call it "Great Iberica". Create a flag for the union. Imagine then a Spanish ruling Portugal... We like our "hermanos" very much but that is just unthinkable.
    I don't think you quite understand the history and politics of the Union.
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    Ohhh yeah I'm so happy us Brits bomb other less fortunate countries and blame it on the Muslims! HELL YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.


    No.
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    (Original post by az1992)
    the same thing was said about the jews, that they wanted to take over Germany and there was mass propaganda. Today we call those German public who believed it stupid yet we are all following a similar trail.
    The people who say such things about the Jews these days are generally Muslims. You have the wrong analogy to think that Muslims are the new Jews. Many 'moderate' Muslims are at least mildly antisemitic, much like the wider German population, and like the wider German population they bear some responsibility for the Islamists (read Islamic neo-facists) who commit terrible acts and spread bile in their name - where are the moderate Muslims taking to the streets when Islamists kill Muslims? There are hardly any who say anything about a group of extremists with a growing support base among young Muslims for at least part of their radical political agenda. You've got this one completely wrong, Jews are still Jews, fascists are still fascists (BNP), but the new kids on the block with a radical political agenda - who want to create a Caliphate (read 'Reich'), kill apostates (read all manner of political opponents who the NAZIs interned before the Jews as soon as they took power), establish their own supremacy over all others and exterminate the Jews are the Islamists. Islamists are the new NAZIs. And the old NAZIs (BNP) and the new NAZIs (Islamists) feed off each other, as each grows so does the other.

    The EU report into antisemitism presented detailed evidence that the largest and fastest growing threat to European Jews was from young Muslim men (Islamist or Islamist influenced one would presume) and embarrassed by this clear empirical fact some Eurocrat doctored the conclusion, completely contradictorily to the body of the report, to suggest that the rise in attacks on Jews came from the white far right (which the figures within the report show to perpetrate a small and relatively static minority of such incidents). The real and growing threat to Jews comes from Islamists and the young Muslim men they inspire, so its a nonsense to claim that Muslims are the new Jews when its radical Islamists who are the new NAZI persecutors of Jews.
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    (Original post by caroline147)
    Furthermore, Britain's lack of national pride seems to prevent upsurges of both fascism and US-style national arrogance. It's a good thing.
    Sorry but I disagree.

    British people used to be a very proud people. During the extensive rise of racism, we merely laughed it off. We were proud and didn't need any fascist spoiling it.

    Now a days, we are not so proud and yet fascism is doing good in Britain - It has achieved some form of parliamentary representation - Unprecedented really even if it is so small...

    It is always about balance. A nice amount of pride; in my view, prevents the rise of extremists like the BNP. When a peoples pride has been torn away, extremists breed like bacteria... albeit very slow in bacteria terms -_-
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    (Original post by pendragon)
    Surely NE is the most patriotic place in the UK? The loyalists are uber-patriotic towards Britain and the republicans towards the Irish republic.
    I was talking about being a patriotic British citizen; I wasn't disputing whether or not the people of Northern Ireland are pre-disposed to patriotism itself, because, as the last thirty years have proven, they are a very proud people.

    Also, I suspect loyalists are more loyal to Ulster than to Britain.
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    (Original post by pendragon)
    The people who say such things about the Jews these days are generally Muslims. You have the wrong analogy to think that Muslims are the new Jews. Many 'moderate' Muslims are at least mildly antisemitic, much like the wider German population, and like the wider German population they bear some responsibility for the Islamists (read Islamic neo-facists) who commit terrible acts and spread bile in their name - where are the moderate Muslims taking to the streets when Islamists kill Muslims? There are hardly any who say anything about a group of extremists with a growing support base among young Muslims for at least part of their radical political agenda. You've got this one completely wrong, Jews are still Jews, fascists are still fascists (BNP), but the new kids on the block with a radical political agenda - who want to create a Caliphate (read 'Reich'), kill apostates (read all manner of political opponents who the NAZIs interned before the Jews as soon as they took power), establish their own supremacy over all others and exterminate the Jews are the Islamists. Islamists are the new NAZIs. And the old NAZIs (BNP) and the new NAZIs (Islamists) feed off each other, as each grows so does the other.

    The EU report into antisemitism presented detailed evidence that the largest and fastest growing threat to European Jews was from young Muslim men (Islamist or Islamist influenced one would presume) and embarrassed by this clear empirical fact some Eurocrat doctored the conclusion, completely contradictorily to the body of the report, to suggest that the rise in attacks on Jews came from the white far right (which the figures within the report show to perpetrate a small and relatively static minority of such incidents). The real and growing threat to Jews comes from Islamists and the young Muslim men they inspire, so its a nonsense to claim that Muslims are the new Jews when its radical Islamists who are the new NAZI persecutors of Jews.
    Im hearing you, and I do agree with you about BNP and extremist Muslims feeding of each other, but I do disagree with the Anti-Semitic Muslim religion. Im sure that there are alot of Muslims that hate Jews but it doesnt explicitly encourage attacks on jews.

    I may be wrong but I think that the majority of followers of Anjem Choudry are young Muslims just as many of the more eager nationalists are becoming increasingly younger. When someone first grasps knowledge they will be prone to jump on the first cause available. Anjem Choudry himself was a pot smoking student and very nonreligious.

    Therefore, the rise of these "new nazi's" as you put it is nothing more then a younger generation trying to find a cause on how to live their lives. the same can be said for the youth of any ethnic background. i mean just look on TSR where you have people between the ages of 16 and mid 20s blindly taking a political side that they dont fully understand using words that they dont actually know the meaning of. Does not mean we should judge all students or youth as ignorrant and
    bigoted. In the same way we should not be judging a whole religion on the actions of a naive few.
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    (Original post by Lust of a Gardener)
    I was talking about being a patriotic British citizen; I wasn't disputing whether or not the people of Northern Ireland are pre-disposed to patriotism itself, because, as the last thirty years have proven, they are a very proud people.

    Also, I suspect loyalists are more loyal to Ulster than to Britain.
    Loyalists conception of Ulster is as an integral part of Britain though, whatever the complex nature of their uber-patriotism Britain is key to it.
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    Sorry but I disagree.

    British people used to be a very proud people. During the extensive rise of racism, we merely laughed it off. We were proud and didn't need any fascist spoiling it.

    Now a days, we are not so proud and yet fascism is doing good in Britain - It has achieved some form of parliamentary representation - Unprecedented really even if it is so small...

    It is always about balance. A nice amount of pride; in my view, prevents the rise of extremists like the BNP. When a peoples pride has been torn away, extremists breed like bacteria... albeit very slow in bacteria terms -_-
    During the rise of racism in the 50s and 60s, it was precisely "laughing it off" that meant many ethnic minorities had to endure terrible abuse. Yeah, the Notting Hill race riots were ******* hilarious lololololol.

    Um, considering one of fascism's core tenets is nationalism, it stands to reason that patriotism is far far more likely to contribute to its support rather than undermine it. As soon as you start irrationally glorifying your country, I don't see why you'd stop at a 'balanced' point. It's all another name for a superiority complex.

    It's completely counterintuitive to link a rise in nationalism to a decrease in patriotism. The BNP have representation because we've introduced proportional representation into the electoral system, and because there's been mass immigration.
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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    What are you talking about? You implied that the British were confused about their identity because they had a Scottish Prime Minister.

    I pointed out that Scotland, and the Scottish are part of Great Britain and have been for over three hundred years. Nevermind what it means to be British. You were wrong.

    I will just copy paste and underline. One of thousands of examples can just be the fact that the country is ruled by a Scotsman.

    This was what i was talking about.. You see i'm here just studying i don't want to live here. I saw this which is clearly visible and made my comments. I watch news ok. This isn't solely my opinion. There was a survey that was performed not long ago and most Brits were agreeing about the confusion stuff. The prime minister thing is just one example and who pointed out was an Englishman and i noted it. I also gave that monsk? (that building to pray) example which i can see from where i stand.. What is that? Are we in morroco? that's not British for me. We have respect for muslisms in portugal but don't mix our cultures to the point people come and can barely recognize where they are.

    Somebody also told that i don't seem to understand the union. Well we study history you know, maybe we don't know the same little details as you but we know the basics. If Scots and English are the same for you then good for you. I won't bother you with that any more.

    There is no point you guys can accept an opinion and see the side of it. I fundamented everything i said to a minimum you've just limited attacking without even reading properly.

    You think you're not confused well good for you i feel happy for yourself. Really.

    I stated that this is a delicate subject and didn't meant to offend anyone or get anybody angry, you guys probably know it better than anyone but its stupid to start talking about this in a forum as it won't just take anyone to a point.
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    (Original post by LMAC)
    Scotland is part of Britain. A Scot has as much right to be the PM as a Welsh or English person does.

    Most people aren't patriotic because there's really no reason to be. This country lets anyone in, there's no jobs, the country's in huge debt, there's high crime rates, ultimately, Labour are in power which is the root of it all.
    Scotland is part of Britain. A Scot has as much right to be the PM as a Welsh or English person does -> Well guess what i know that and im not impressed at all.

    I know about the immigration problem i am aware. I think that imposing the same system as Australia does would be of great benefit to the UK.


    And by the way about the economy:

    -UK was the most affected by the current recession
    -UK started giving signs of recovery precisely in September when foreigners were coming back from holidays and students coming to settle in.
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    (Original post by az1992)
    Im hearing you, and I do agree with you about BNP and extremist Muslims feeding of each other, but I do disagree with the Anti-Semitic Muslim religion. Im sure that there are alot of Muslims that hate Jews but it doesnt explicitly encourage attacks on jews.

    I may be wrong but I think that the majority of followers of Anjem Choudry are young Muslims just as many of the more eager nationalists are becoming increasingly younger. When someone first grasps knowledge they will be prone to jump on the first cause available. Anjem Choudry himself was a pot smoking student and very nonreligious.

    Therefore, the rise of these "new nazi's" as you put it is nothing more then a younger generation trying to find a cause on how to live their lives. the same can be said for the youth of any ethnic background. i mean just look on TSR where you have people between the ages of 16 and mid 20s blindly taking a political side that they dont fully understand using words that they dont actually know the meaning of. Does not mean we should judge all students or youth as ignorrant and
    bigoted. In the same way we should not be judging a whole religion on the actions of a naive few.
    There is a difference between student radicalism of one kind and student radicalism that leads young men to blow up their fellow citizens and be prepared to even kill their co-religionists as a result.

    There is certainly antisemitism in the Hadith, as well as distorted pictures of Jews in the Qu'ran.

    For example this is from the second most authoritative Hadith collection (and the Hadith are second to the Qu'ran in importance, and quite essential to the Islamic faith as they explain much of the background of everything alluded to in the Qu'ran):

    Hadith, Sahih Muslim, Book 41, Number 6985:

    'Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.'

    Of course Muslims could repudiate this part of their religious textual tradition, just as Christians repudiate ugly parts of the Old Testament, but not if they are literalists or don't reject the Hadith entirely.

    The argument that Christians and Jews are respected in Islam as 'people of the book' is largely erroneous, certainly they receive better treatment than pagans but that isn't saying much; and under Islam Jews and Christians are second class citizens who must keep quiet and pay additional taxes for the privilege of limited and private worship. At the very least the Qu'ran presents a distorted view of the other two Abrahamic religions.

    And I am aware that of course antisemitism among Muslims is not simply or even perhaps mainly a result of their religious texts (not that these help) but also bound up with Israel-Palestine, but it is nonetheless rife in the Arab press and filters into Western Muslim communities. The 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion', a Tsarist forgery, and one of the most antisemitic texts ever to be written, which was distributed by the NAZIs to demonise Jews is widely sold in various languages across the Muslim world - including in British and European mosques, Egyptian state TV even aired a series based upon the text during its prime time Ramadan highest viewing period. A level of antisemitic discourse exists prevalently among many Muslims which would not be tolerated in wider British society, and it isn't just confined to Islamists or extremists.
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    (Original post by pendragon)
    Loyalists conception of Ulster is as an integral part of Britain though, whatever the complex nature of their uber-patriotism Britain is key to it.
    You're being far too pedantic about this.

    Loyalists are loyal to Ulster and the protestant community in Northern Ireland. The Union Jack is only a symbol to them of their struggle against the catholics, just as the Irish flag is a symbol of rebellion for the Catholics and Republicans.

    Don't let the facade fool you, these people are loyal only to their own communities.
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    (Original post by meebodied)
    Have you been South to the Republic of late? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbE97zATZuk People are arriving in Ireland IN THEIR DROVES. Someone told me the number of people entering Ireland between 2000-2005 was the equivalent of the UK population rising by 10 million
    What the hell are you talking about? Did you even read what I wrote?

    I wasn't dicussing the immigration problem in Northern Ireland, nevermind the one in the Republic. I was discussing patriotism and how, being a Catholic in a Republican stronghold, has not pre-disposed me to being a patriotic British citizen.

    I'm not concerned with immigration. As far as I know, most of the immigrants seem to be moving elsewhere.
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    (Original post by xptos1)
    I will just copy paste and underline. One of thousands of examples can just be the fact that the country is ruled by a Scotsman.

    This was what i was talking about.. You see i'm here just studying i don't want to live here. I saw this which is clearly visible and made my comments. I watch news ok. This isn't solely my opinion. There was a survey that was performed not long ago and most Brits were agreeing about the confusion stuff. The prime minister thing is just one example and who pointed out was an Englishman and i noted it. I also gave that monsk? (that building to pray) example which i can see from where i stand.. What is that? Are we in morroco? that's not British for me. We have respect for muslisms in portugal but don't mix our cultures to the point people come and can barely recognize where they are.

    Somebody also told that i don't seem to understand the union. Well we study history you know, maybe we don't know the same little details as you but we know the basics. If Scots and English are the same for you then good for you. I won't bother you with that any more.

    There is no point you guys can accept an opinion and see the side of it. I fundamented everything i said to a minimum you've just limited attacking without even reading properly.

    You think you're not confused well good for you i feel happy for yourself. Really.

    I stated that this is a delicate subject and didn't meant to offend anyone or get anybody angry, you guys probably know it better than anyone but its stupid to start talking about this in a forum as it won't just take anyone to a point.


    I don't care about reasons not to feel British. That is not why i quoted you. I quoted you because you implied that a Scotsman is not British. You were wrong, i am one of two posters who has called you up on this falsity now. All your words above are wasted because they are nothing but a strawman constructed by yourself for the immature reason of avoiding your mistake.

    Britain is not England. Britain is England/Scotland/ Wales/ N.Ireland.

    Now if you had said that an Englishman might feel a bit peeved because there was a scot in charge then you would have had a point. But you didn't, you said that a British person would have ahd a problem. But i doubt Scottish people would have much of a problem with a Scottish prime minister purely because he is Scottish, and Scottish people are British people aswell.
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    (Original post by caroline147)
    During the rise of racism in the 50s and 60s, it was precisely "laughing it off" that meant many ethnic minorities had to endure terrible abuse. Yeah, the Notting Hill race riots were ******* hilarious lololololol.

    Um, considering one of fascism's core tenets is nationalism, it stands to reason that patriotism is far far more likely to contribute to its support rather than undermine it. As soon as you start irrationally glorifying your country, I don't see why you'd stop at a 'balanced' point. It's all another name for a superiority complex.

    It's completely counterintuitive to link a rise in nationalism to a decrease in patriotism. The BNP have representation because we've introduced proportional representation into the electoral system, and because there's been mass immigration.
    I disagree, sensible patriotism weakens fascism just as sensible practice of religion weakens religious extremism. When you remove religion entirely or patriotism entirely people react against it and turn to extremes.

    Religious fundamentalists can then say look our society is irreligious and completely degenerate you should embrace religion entirely (in the extreme form we package it to you), and fascists can say look they all hate our country we are the only ones sticking up for it - if you don't hate our country you should join us.

    Whereas if people are steeped in a sensible religious tradition (Anglicanism or Sufi Islam) or a decent moderate kind of patriotism they will not feel there is any void or any 'conspiracy' against them, their country or their religion, and as a result they will not be conned by extremists like the Islamists or the BNP. Moderate religion and moderate patriotism drains the pool in which radicalism can swim.

    If religion or patriotism is not truly moderate and is in fact imbued with some radical elements it can become a conveyor belt to extremism, so its important not to confuse moderation for the majority (they aren't always the same thing).

    If you had no sensible patriotism and no moderate peaceful religion in a country do you really think this would reduce the number of people who turned to what would then be the only alternative options of extreme nationalism and religious fundamentalism?

    If more British Muslims were Sufi and more were proud to have a British identity along with a sensible form of British patriotism there would certainly be fewer Islamists, fewer young British Muslims sympathetic to Islamism, and correspondingly less ground for the BNP to stand on as well as fewer genuine concerns in the wider British population about Islam (which they do not understand, or see the internal distinctions of, i.e. regarding Islamism) and which the BNP use to attract support and shield their actually racist agenda in the guise of a legitimate criticism of a religious ideology (which many sensible and educated people in wider society share).
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    (Original post by ak56)
    The basic ethos of this site is that British patriotism is very negative, we should be ashamed of our behaviour, other cultures have every right to hate us and pick us up on our cultural short-comings, we have no right to critise foreigners because by default everything they do is better than us - they dress better than us, they are more intelligent than us, they are better looking than us, less sexually premocious, society has lower crime, blah blah blah.

    I'm sure you don't care, but I have used this site for years, and I often have to take a break from posting because of the sheer liberal negativity and pompousness, and how quite frankly anti-British this site is, it sometimes does get really grating and depressing to read just how much of the country's youth seem to hate themselves and their culture.

    I suspect 80% of you will eventually grow out of your stupid liberal, apologist, pompous views while the remaining 20% will become aging communists.

    But to me, the sheer level of self-hatred towards your own identity of this website is highly depressing, and definitely goes against what would be considered natural self-preservation and self-respect.
    Are you Nick Griffin?
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    (Original post by Lust of a Gardener)
    You're being far too pedantic about this.

    Loyalists are loyal to Ulster and the protestant community in Northern Ireland. The Union Jack is only a symbol to them of their struggle against the catholics, just as the Irish flag is a symbol of rebellion for the Catholics and Republicans.

    Don't let the facade fool you, these people are loyal only to their own communities.
    Loyalty in the sense of whose interests they have at heart and who they will act on behalf of is very different to loyalty in the sense of a kind Britishness uniquely bound up in their own interpretation of what that means and their Protestant Ulsterite identity. If their ideology and identity were not bound up with being British they would be happy for Northern Ireland to become independent of both Britain and Ireland as long as they remained in charge - but perhaps you think this is already the case?

    Sorry to be pedantic, but these things matter to some people.
 
 
 
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