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Whats the deal with tuition fees? watch

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  • View Poll Results: What would you prefer
    Tuition fees scrapped
    25
    18.80%
    Tuition fees lowered
    32
    24.06%
    Tuition fees scrapped and overall entry points increased
    31
    23.31%
    Keep things as they are
    45
    33.83%

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    In my home country where uni is free it is full of peple studying ******** degrees just because they feel that university is a socially acceptable 5 year period of partying with living expenses covered by parents.

    Therefore I think that entry points should be raised and perhaps higher maintenace loans/grant should be offered from the money saved. I couldnt card less about tuition fees, I will be able to repay them really quickly. Living expenses scare me though.


    PS. On average educating a student costs 16k per year of which govwrnment pays 13k, dont be stupid to think that your 3k covers costs of educating you for a year
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    (Original post by slipend)
    London Underground.
    Local Public transport.
    Welfare Housing.


    If you think about it the tax payers fund a lot of things they never use or ever will use. Everybody who gets disability allowance, everybody who has long term sick get money form the tax payers.
    Noby is stopping you using London Underground/local transport, you just choose not to. Welfare is an insurance that you may have to use.

    I do get/agree with your point though.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Noby is stopping you using London Underground/local transport, you just choose not to.
    Like nobody is stopping people going on to further education? oh except that you have to pay £1000's for it and if you are from a less that well off family background and mummy and daddy won't give you hand outs you have to get a 20 hours a week job at Starbucks too to pay for the overpriced student accommodation.

    Oh, btw I'm not arguing with you, just have to quote someone
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    I want the system like it used to be when my mum went.

    Free, only for the smartest, and with decent grants so that you can actually afford to live without having to take on two jobs.
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    (Original post by ellingham)
    I am running a campaign against tuition fees for one of my modules at university, so i would like to get some views on the subject. If tuition fees were scrapped would universities be full of people who are there just for the sake of it, if you had to pay for college how many of you would have gone? If tuition fees were scrapped how would universities be funded? How do Scotland get around not paying tuition fees? Would you be in favour of tuition fees being scrapped or lowered?

    Sorry for the long post but i would like some detailed responses.

    Okay i'm adding a poll, so say which one you chose and why.
    I reckon, none of us like paying tuition fees, even with students loans etc. but we should examine the role of University

    1. There is the slightly romantic idea of discussing the meaning of like and the works of Marx or chaucer etc at uni - and for many people this is part of the experience. Its good, but often offers little practical benefit.

    2. University as a place to equip you with the skills required for a (well paid or enjoyable) job. This offers a more practical way of looking at university and assessing the place of fees. If i am paying about £10,000 over three years for an undergrad degree, then i want a good return on investment (in my eyes a starting wage of £20k for the first year of work, followed by a strong increase in the following years). If my £10k fees offer this, then i consider that to be a good return on investment - If i end up flipping burgers for a fiver an hour, thats a poor ROI. If fees are to go up, which they are likely to do, I would want an equal return on investment (if i pay £20k over three years in fees, the i want a starting wage of £35k - £40k p/a).

    Fees are a necessary evil - the current set-up with students loans available to many people means that many (most?) people can afford Uni. The question always return to ROI - I pay £10k for a service - i expect a damn good service.

    So yes, I'm happy to pay the current rate of fees.

    But, with fees due to increase in the next year or two, i am not convinced that they will offer a relative increase in ROI, so i do not think that i would be happier to pay higher fees.
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    (Original post by psychocustard)
    I want the system like it used to be when my mum went.

    Free, only for the smartest, and with decent grants so that you can actually afford to live without having to take on two jobs.

    Noooo, that's how you create a two tier society, a 'us and them' concept. What do you think will eventually happen to the ones who aren't the smartest? They won't go on to further education and then the real problems begin.
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    (Original post by slipend)
    Like nobody is stopping people going on to further education? oh except that you have to pay £1000's for it and if you are from a less that well off family background and mummy and daddy won't give you hand outs you have to get a 20 hours a week job at Starbucks too to pay for the overpriced student accommodation.

    Oh, btw I'm not arguing with you, just have to quote someone
    Wow, students have to get part-time jobs. What a hardship. Down with the government, those thieving *******s, making people work for their money!
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    (Original post by paddyman4)
    It's an investment. Everyone is able to borrow enough to make that investment. That is as good as can be expected. The Government cannot afford to cover the entire funding of universities.

    My favourite solution would be to stop Government funding of useless courses and use that money to preven tfurther rises in tuition fees. Universities have set up so many ridiculous and cheap to run courses to earn extra money. There's no reason the Government should pay for someone to do a degree that won't benefit the society or benefit the person in terms of opportunities. The reason the Government pays for courses at the moment is so people of all classes can afford to go. This to help social mobility, preventing poor kids remaining poor because they can't afford qualifications. But a course which will not provide opportunities does not help social mobility; therefore it is done purely for pleasure and as such is a luxury that should not receive Government funding.
    This post sums up what is wrong in the UK today. People do not see the intrinsic value of education. Courses have to be 'useful'. So presumably you'd abolish classics or ancient history at Oxford and Anglo Saxon, Norse and Celtic or Medieval languages at Cambridge to fit your utilitarian model.
    In my opinion your view is utterly arse about face. I totally refute your last sentence, that is exactly why people should go to university, for scholarship alone.
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    (Original post by Pink Bullets)
    Wow, students have to get part-time jobs. What a hardship. Down with the government, those thieving *******s, making people work for their money!
    Actually, I didn't make myself clear.

    Part time jobs are fine, the point is that with increasing fee's and price of living higher, students will have to find part time work and have money worries. Thus, creating students who devout lots of time to working and not 100% to getting the best possible grade in their degree.

    However, on the contrary if you are from a 'well off' family and your parents supply you with handouts, no work is necessary and thus enabling you to work full time only on your degree.

    It's a tricky one.
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    (Original post by slipend)
    Actually, I didn't make myself clear.

    Part time jobs are fine, the point is that with increasing fee's and price of living higher, students will have to find part time work and have money worries. Thus, creating students who devout lots of time to working and not 100% to getting the best possible grade in their degree.

    However, on the contrary if you are from a 'well off' family and your parents supply you with handouts, no work is necessary and thus enabling you to work full time only on your degree.

    It's a tricky one.
    I'm from a fairly well off family and was supplied with 'handouts', but I still had part-time jobs all through my degree. I don't know anyone who didn't, really. Is it not standard to work during your degree? (unless you are doing a subject that is truly full-time, by that I mean 30-40 hours a week of contact time)

    I'd much rather students have to get part-time jobs than fees decreasing/government handouts increasing. Anyone doesn't work at all for 3-4 years is going to get a harsh reality check after they graduate. Okay... they might have a first-class degree, but they'll also have a blank CV and an immature outlook on life. Hence, I see it as a positive thing that the government doesn't fund 100% of students' living expenses (again with the exception of those very few courses that don't leave any time for work)
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    (Original post by hobnob)
    You don't? I always thought Scottish students still had to pay tuition fees (though not top-up fees), so they were paying something in the region of £1,700 a year or so, i.e. basically what people were paying before the - fairly recent - introduction of top-up fees. Or am I getting this mixed up with the Welsh universities?:confused:
    I believe all we have to pay for is accommodation, and any materials fees (such as books or art supplies).
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    (Original post by hypocriticaljap)
    This post sums up what is wrong in the UK today. People do not see the intrinsic value of education. Courses have to be 'useful'. So presumably you'd abolish classics or ancient history at Oxford and Anglo Saxon, Norse and Celtic or Medieval languages at Cambridge to fit your utilitarian model.
    In my opinion your view is utterly arse about face. I totally refute your last sentence, that is exactly why people should go to university, for scholarship alone.
    I wouldn't abolish them, I would stop the Government paying for you to do them. If a course is done purely for your own interest and enjoyment, doesn't give you any greater opportunities and so doesn't affect the country or the economy, then it shouldn't be payed for by everyone else. Why should someone who chose to work instead of go to uni have to work to pay for someone else to go and enjoy themselves for 3 years? If it's purely for enjoyment then it is on the same level as any other luxury.
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    (Original post by paddyman4)
    I wouldn't abolish them, I would stop the Government paying for you to do them. If a course is done purely for your own interest and enjoyment, doesn't give you any greater opportunities and so doesn't affect the country or the economy, then it shouldn't be payed for by everyone else. Why should someone who chose to work instead of go to uni have to work to pay for someone else to go and enjoy themselves for 3 years? If it's purely for enjoyment then it is on the same level as any other luxury.
    Except all degrees give you greater opportunities. How do you propose to measure how great the opportunities have to be to justify funding?
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    (Original post by slipend)
    Like nobody is stopping people going on to further education? oh except that you have to pay £1000's for it and if you are from a less that well off family background and mummy and daddy won't give you hand outs you have to get a 20 hours a week job at Starbucks too to pay for the overpriced student accommodation.

    Oh, btw I'm not arguing with you, just have to quote someone
    Quite, but the thousands are paid when you recieve the value from the education, not upfront (note, different to 5 years ago). So you don't have to pay thousands to get further education.

    Its not overpriced, if it was people would live in non student accommodation.

    People can work before uni too in order to cover the cost of living. Going back to your arguement before, the Gov doesn't pay living costs for primary or secondary education...
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    (Original post by slipend)
    Noooo, that's how you create a two tier society, a 'us and them' concept. What do you think will eventually happen to the ones who aren't the smartest? They won't go on to further education and then the real problems begin.
    Hmm, I'm not totally convinced.

    I think there needs to be more apparenticeships, and emphasis on things that you can do after GCSEs without automatically having to go to uni - not everyone who has been coming into the FE and HE sectors should actually be there, I think. But we need to be realistic - there aren't enough graduate jobs. I know when I was in my last job, calling recent graduates, that most people weren't in graduate positions, they were at the bottom of the rung at bars and restaurants, earning minimum wage.
    The thing is now, that you can get into uni, no matter what grades, as long as you've got the cash, and I don't think that's fair.

    Gawd, maybe I should just get a time machine and go back to the 50s
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Quite, but the thousands are paid when you recieve the value from the education, not upfront (note, different to 5 years ago). So you don't have to pay thousands to get further education.

    Its not overpriced, if it was people would live in non student accommodation.

    People can work before uni too in order to cover the cost of living. Going back to your arguement before, the Gov doesn't pay living costs for primary or secondary education...
    Sorry, but that's what child benefit, and child tax credits are there to help with.


    It IS overpriced. I paid £102 a week for a tiny en-suite room, with a crap kitchen, next to all the clubs so I got CONSTANT noise, with a lift that was constantly breaking, and security guards who would lose the bloody master keys.
    You know why people don't go into non student accommodation? Becuase it's easy, and people don't realise how much cheaper it would be to go into a house. Add onto that the fact that you have to then go through the rigmarole of finding people to live with - difficult, if you have no friends going with you to that uni - and finding a house, which is harder when you've got all the second/third/fourth years already snapping up all the decent houses, and having no idea of what the area's like, where to go/not to go. Then, you've got the issue that as soon as you work out how crap it is in there, you can't leave the contract unless you leave university itself.

    Oh, and if you live in a small town, with no jobs, in the middle of a recession, like me, then no, you can't work before uni, because there aren't any jobs!
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    (Original post by Pink Bullets)
    Except all degrees give you greater opportunities. How do you propose to measure how great the opportunities have to be to justify funding?
    Common sense. 'Surf Science' does not deserve funding.

    Or they could look at the graduates from every course in every uni and see if a non-negligible number of them go on to get jobs which required them to have a degree. If not, the course is not beneficial to social mobility or to the country.
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    (Original post by psychocustard)
    Sorry, but that's what child benefit, and child tax credits are there to help with.


    It IS overpriced. I paid £102 a week for a tiny en-suite room, with a crap kitchen, next to all the clubs so I got CONSTANT noise, with a lift that was constantly breaking, and security guards who would lose the bloody master keys.
    You know why people don't go into non student accommodation? Becuase it's easy, and people don't realise how much cheaper it would be to go into a house. Add onto that the fact that you have to then go through the rigmarole of finding people to live with - difficult, if you have no friends going with you to that uni - and finding a house, which is harder when you've got all the second/third/fourth years already snapping up all the decent houses, and having no idea of what the area's like, where to go/not to go. Then, you've got the issue that as soon as you work out how crap it is in there, you can't leave the contract unless you leave university itself.

    Oh, and if you live in a small town, with no jobs, in the middle of a recession, like me, then no, you can't work before uni, because there aren't any jobs!
    Have you looked at the prices of regular accommodation?

    You get a damn good deal in student accommodation. Personally, I paid £130 a week for an en-suite room (including 14 meals a week) in one of the most expensive areas of London. In comparison, the average studio flat in the same area costs £250 a week, excluding bills and with no meals included.

    Yes, you can normally find a privately-owned room that is cheaper than whatever your paying for student accommodation... but when you compare like-for-like, student accommodation is nearly always the better deal.

    Anyone who feels student accommodation is too expensive is perfectly free to get accommodation elsewhere. It's just that, when they see how much a decent flat costs comes to when all bills are paid for, they'll be singing praises of cheap student accommodation...
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    Scrapping Tuition Fees would be a pointless!
    You would get people who were there just for party!
    Rather than wanting to get a degree out of it!
    On the news today, they are looking at reducing the number of applicants that are applying for university!
    Anyone know if it will affect this years applicants or not till next year??
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    (Original post by psychocustard)
    Sorry, but that's what child benefit, and child tax credits are there to help with.


    It IS overpriced. I paid £102 a week for a tiny en-suite room, with a crap kitchen, next to all the clubs so I got CONSTANT noise, with a lift that was constantly breaking, and security guards who would lose the bloody master keys.
    You know why people don't go into non student accommodation? Becuase it's easy, and people don't realise how much cheaper it would be to go into a house. Add onto that the fact that you have to then go through the rigmarole of finding people to live with - difficult, if you have no friends going with you to that uni - and finding a house, which is harder when you've got all the second/third/fourth years already snapping up all the decent houses, and having no idea of what the area's like, where to go/not to go. Then, you've got the issue that as soon as you work out how crap it is in there, you can't leave the contract unless you leave university itself.

    Oh, and if you live in a small town, with no jobs, in the middle of a recession, like me, then no, you can't work before uni, because there aren't any jobs!
    CB at a grand a year hardly covers living costs. CTC is means tested.

    How many weeks of the year did you pay for? 32? Would it have been cheaper to have gone privately?

    Unemployment went down in Q4...
 
 
 
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