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    (Original post by mathperson)
    Bold: I'm not trying to be cocky, I'm simply pointing out a logical inconsistency in what you said in your OP :confused:

    OK its obvious that you have begun being rude to me for some reason.

    What do you mean it was done in a rhetoric fashion, what so you didn't actually want people to answer it? I'd suggest doing a module in the English language, as oppose to critical thinking, if you want to be like that.

    It doesn't matter whether you copied and pasted it, it is still illogical. When you said in reply to my post something along the lines of "then it would be consistent", I demonstrated why what you said in your OP wasn't consistent and why what you said as a reply was also inconsistent.

    I don't know why you've suddenly started being rude OP :erm:

    I've done an A level in English language, a module in critical thinking, and I'm a second year philosophy student working his way around the semantics and lexis used in different arguments (of course on a very simplified level, but it's not easy task, and I've barely started).
    The reason why I accused you of feeling cocky was on how obvious it was to be a rhetoric question. I felt it would work in your favour me to be labelled as cocky instead of stupid.

    With regards to the inconsistencies I still do not see them (see my edit above).

    However I have made a mistake, I should have asked:

    "If you don't, and if you know what a normal distribution is, try drawing 2 normal distributions and see how they differ."

    What are those and can you take me through them.

    Anyway, the dead of the night is hitting me so I'll go to bed in a minute and reply in the morning.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    I've done an A level in English language, a module in critical thinking, and I'm a second year philosophy student working his way around the semantics and lexis used in different arguments (of course on a very simplified level, but it's not easy task, and I've barely started).
    The reason why I accused you of feeling cocky was on how obvious it was to be a rhetoric question. I felt it would work in your favour me to be labelled as cocky instead of stupid.

    With regards to the inconsistencies I still do not see them (see my edit above).

    However I have made a mistake, I should have asked:

    "If you don't, and if you know what a normal distribution is, try drawing 2 normal distributions and see how they differ."

    What are those and can you take me through them.

    Anyway, the dead of the night is hitting me so I'll go to bed in a minute and reply in the morning.
    With all due respect, see the bold.

    That is what I asked you, what do you mean you should have asked it?

    I will try too, but it is very difficult over the internet, but I will try tomorrow (I'll PM you or do it on this thread), indeed the dead of night is hitting me also.

    Take care.
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    No, there are blacks with genius level IQs (180+ is what most psychologists count as genius level). I know this cos 2/3rds of the way through that thing the scientist said something about how the suchandsuch theory must be wrong because they've analysed 'blacks with very high IQs, genius level IQs' and found they don't have mostly suchandsuch genes.
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    (Original post by calvinuk)
    Well if you consider that a particular branch of Jews has accounted for an astronomical percentage of nobel prizes in the fields of Maths/Physics than I would say that it's hard to argue against race playing some role in intelligence.
    Jewish culture values academic persuits VERY highly.
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    (Original post by O-Ren)
    No, there are blacks with genius level IQs (180+ is what most psychologists count as genius level). I know this cos 2/3rds of the way through that thing the scientist said something about how the suchandsuch theory must be wrong because they've analysed 'blacks with very high IQs, genius level IQs' and found they don't have mostly suchandsuch genes.
    The fact that there examples of very smart black people doesn't prove the proposition that "black people are on average less intelligent than white people" is false.

    I actually expect that it is true (if we assume intelligence to be the academic kind of intelligence that IQ tests are for). But I'd guess that it's more down to culture/social circumstances than genes. Black people on average live in poorer areas and there is a kind of black subculture in this country.
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    (Original post by Psyk)
    The fact that there examples of very smart black people doesn't prove the proposition that "black people are on average less intelligent than white people" is false.

    I actually expect that it is true (if we assume intelligence to be the academic kind of intelligence that IQ tests are for). But I'd guess that it's more down to culture/social circumstances than genes. Black people on average live in poorer areas and there is a kind of black subculture in this country.
    lol I know! Read the OP, he was asking if 'all black people are less intelligent that most white people'.
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    (Original post by mathperson)
    With all due respect, see the bold.

    That is what I asked you, what do you mean you should have asked it?

    I will try too, but it is very difficult over the internet, but I will try tomorrow (I'll PM you or do it on this thread), indeed the dead of night is hitting me also.

    Take care.
    Sorry, no excuses, I was out of line with that cocky comment. I could give the reason (not the justification) behind it, very simply; stress and tiredomnessticisty...

    With regards to having barely started I can only wonder if you know just how broad a subject it is?
    Have you ever studied philosophy past the very basic Kant and utilitarianism?
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    There are no differences between races, just like there are no differences between different breeds of dog.
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    (Original post by O-Ren)
    lol I know! Read the OP, he was asking if 'all black people are less intelligent that most white people'.
    And the point of me doing this in case you're interested is because if there are very clever black people then to discriminate against black people based on being less intelligence would be racist as it presupposes they're in the majority than the minority.

    I would say that the average black person is less intelligent in the way IQ tests are set out but due to the reasons laid out (which is something I'd thought before setting down to the show) it's due to social conditioning etc. (someone else mentioned that on the first page I think).
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    And the point of me doing this in case you're interested is because if there are very clever black people then to discriminate against black people based on being less intelligence would be racist as it presupposes they're in the majority than the minority.

    I would say that the average black person is less intelligent in the way IQ tests are set out but due to the reasons laid out (which is something I'd thought before setting down to the show) it's due to social conditioning etc. (someone else mentioned that on the first page I think).
    What did you think of the documentary once you'd seen all of it? I thought it was very interesting, but we didn't find out anything conclusive. I guess it's because it's still an area under development.

    I'm more interested in the male/female IQ divide, but I can't imagine channel 4 making a documentary about that any time soon. It's too much of a volatile area.
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    I'm not arguing whether or not there is a gap in intelligence between the races, I just assume that the gap would be so miniscule that it could be ignored. Remember, genetically, people of different races are very, very similar.

    Honestly, in my opinion, culture would have a greater influence on academic success. For example, in Japan, there is a great deal of pressure placed on young children to suceed and to carry on the honour of the family; this may not be apparent in some other cultures, hence the lower IQ scores.
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    (Original post by O-Ren)
    What did you think of the documentary once you'd seen all of it? I thought it was very interesting, but we didn't find out anything conclusive. I guess it's because it's still an area under development.

    I'm more interested in the male/female IQ divide, but I can't imagine channel 4 making a documentary about that any time soon. It's too much of a volatile area.
    MY views didn't really change.

    At first I was thinking that they may have changed should more evidence for the original arguments posed had been presented. But then I don't feel IQ tests are a good way to measure intelligence.

    I'm tempted to say the closest thing to measure intelligence is the level of brain activity, as opposed to how logical or good at categorising things people are.

    What about you?

    Oh and with regards to women: 50 years ago I would have thought men would have been generally higher, on the other hand now I think women on average would be higher at a younger age, and I'd guess that men would catch up.
    This is speculation of course, but if it is largely about social conditioning that would make sense...
    ...I could be so so wrong though.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    MY views didn't really change.

    At first I was thinking that they may have changed should more evidence for the original arguments posed had been presented. But then I don't feel IQ tests are a good way to measure intelligence.

    I'm tempted to say the closest thing to measure intelligence is the level of brain activity, as opposed to how logical or good at categorising things people are.

    What about you?

    Oh and with regards to women: 50 years ago I would have thought men would have been generally higher, on the other hand now I think women on average would be higher at a younger age, and I'd guess that men would catch up.
    This is speculation of course, but if it is largely about social conditioning that would make sense...
    ...I could be so so wrong though.
    I watched it pretty open-mindedly. To be honest the arguments for social reasons being the main factor in lower IQ seemed a lot more credible than the arguments for genetic reasons, so I now think social reasons are more likely.
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    (Original post by O-Ren)
    I watched it pretty open-mindedly. To be honest the arguments for social reasons being the main factor in lower IQ seemed a lot more credible than the arguments for genetic reasons, so I now think social reasons are more likely.
    Same as me then:P: .
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    Intelligence doesn't simply relies on genetics but also experience plays a vital role.
    It is dumb to try to see how much comes from genetics and how much comes from experience. This is similar to a musician playing flute and asking how much of the music comes from the instrument and how much from the musician. Intelligence simply derives from the interaction on both.

    What about if we would compare indian and white? or chinese and white? and if we actually compare two random whites? I think that intelligent is relative in that matter and the only differences between whites and blacks are their skin. Black people skin contains a larger amount of some coloured kerocytes (which whites also have) due to prolongued exposure to the sun over generations. There are also other few genetic differences like african women tend to have bigger buts and this was evolution that made this way (i don't quite remember the whole thing) due to the amount of food they would eat (which would be less)

    Also intelligence doesn't depend on brain size therefore a black man with a smaller brain have a greater capacity than a brain with a larger volume.

    Conclusion: I think it is relative.
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    (Original post by chronic_fatigue)
    work ethic, but the thing with Jews is they aren't a race.

    Jews are a race. Islam and Christianity is not, however.


    There is a distinct difference between Judaism and all other religions in the fact that it is very difficult to convert into, and to be born "Jewish," your mother must be a Jew.
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    (Original post by O-Ren)
    Jewish culture values academic persuits VERY highly.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews


    Ashkenazi Jews have a noted history of achievement in western societies.[44] They have won a large number of the Nobel awards.[45][46] In those societies where they have been free to enter any profession, they have a record of high occupational achievement, entering professions and fields of commerce where higher education is required.[47] For example, during the 20th century in the United States, Ashkenazi Jews represented approximately 3% of the population, but won 27% of the US Nobel Prizes in science, and 25% of the ACM Turing Awards (the Nobel-equivalent in computer scienc


    There is no way that it is merely social when even displaced Ashkenazi Jews perform so well.
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    (Original post by calvinuk)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews


    Ashkenazi Jews have a noted history of achievement in western societies.[44] They have won a large number of the Nobel awards.[45][46] In those societies where they have been free to enter any profession, they have a record of high occupational achievement, entering professions and fields of commerce where higher education is required.[47] For example, during the 20th century in the United States, Ashkenazi Jews represented approximately 3% of the population, but won 27% of the US Nobel Prizes in science, and 25% of the ACM Turing Awards (the Nobel-equivalent in computer scienc


    There is no way that it is merely social when even displaced Ashkenazi Jews perform so well.
    But displaced Jews take their culture with them, I assume.
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    (Original post by O-Ren)
    But displaced Jews take their culture with them, I assume.
    But their culture has a much lesser impact as they move.
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    (Original post by calvinuk)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews


    Ashkenazi Jews have a noted history of achievement in western societies.[44] They have won a large number of the Nobel awards.[45][46] In those societies where they have been free to enter any profession, they have a record of high occupational achievement, entering professions and fields of commerce where higher education is required.[47] For example, during the 20th century in the United States, Ashkenazi Jews represented approximately 3% of the population, but won 27% of the US Nobel Prizes in science, and 25% of the ACM Turing Awards (the Nobel-equivalent in computer scienc


    There is no way that it is merely social when even displaced Ashkenazi Jews perform so well.
    It's cultural without doubt. If you do some researh outside of wkipedia, it becomes glaringly apprant that the success of Ashkenazi Jews in the US is down to culture.
 
 
 
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