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    (Original post by Moe Lester)
    How enlightened :rolleyes:

    I am much more enghlightened than you, I make more money than you, study at a better uni on a better course and get more girls, white girls hahaha.
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    What fascinates me about Mr Wilders is his grasp of English...

    Mr Wilda'z spek propa engliz comprd 2 chavtardz

    ^^ That actually took longer to write than I thought it would -_-

    But in all seriousness, Wilders should not be on trial for his comments. This is what disgusts me about modern Europe and why I like America in this respect. In America, the police will walk along side protesting Nazi's to protect them. The freedom of speech and expression; in America, is a protected right.

    That should be the situation over here. As long as your comments are not explicitly vile, you should be guaranteed freedom of speech and expression, even if you require police escort.
    I think this passage here from this speech sheds a lot of light in this issue:

    http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/1126

    Someone who is in a state of denial regarding his mortal illness, his wife’s infidelity or his child’s delinquency will turn angrily on the one who refers to the forbidden truth. Likewise, a political culture that is in denial about a serious social problem will condemn those who seek to discuss it, and try its best to silence them. For a long time now the European political class has been in denial about the problems posed by the large-scale immigration of people who do not enter into our European way of life. It has turned angrily on those who have warned against the disruption that might follow, or who have affirmed the right of indigenous communities to refuse admission to people who cannot or will not assimilate. And one of the weapons that the élite has used, in order to ensure that it is never troubled by the truths that it denies, is to accuse those who wish to discuss the problem of ‘racism and xenophobia’. People of my generation have been brought up in fear of this charge, just as the people of Salem were brought up in the fear of being denounced as witches. We saw what happened to Enoch Powell, as a result of a public speech that warned against the dangers. I don’t say that Powell’s speech, in which he referred to ‘the river Tiber foaming with much blood’, was wise or helpful. On the contrary, it was all too easy to accuse him of scaremongering, and his quotation from the Cumean Sybil in Aeneid Bk VI – which of course nobody recognized – was instantly re-written as ‘rivers of blood’, and he himself dismissed as a dangerous madman. That was virtually the last time that a British politician dared to warn against the effect of large-scale immigration. Since then an uneasy silence has prevailed at the political level, while discussion at every other level has been hampered by the periodic show-trials of those judged to be guilty of ‘racism’ – for example, because they have argued that immigrant communities must integrate, and that separatism is intrinsically dangerous: the position adopted by The Salisbury Review under my editorship, and which was the cause of my own castigation.

    By denying a problem you prevent its discussion, until discussion is too late. Throughout the thirties the European political élite lived in denial over German re-armament. By the time the truth could no longer be hidden, it was impossible to deter Hitler’s seizure of Czechoslovakia. Reflecting on such examples it is surely reasonable to conclude that we have a duty now to brave the charge of ‘racism and xenophobia’, and to discuss every aspect of immigration. We owe this not just to the indigenous people of Europe, but to the immigrants themselves, who have just as great an interest in peaceful coexistence as the rest of us.
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    (Original post by Time Tourist)
    I love this term "far-right"... in what way are the EDL "far-right"... you can almost guarntee that as a group of predominantly working class people, them and their families are almost certainly going to consider themselves as Labour through and through (until very recently at least)
    This annoys me somewhat.

    Ok, the EDL can certainly act like thugs but the idea that they're far right is ridiculous.

    Look at footage or photos of their marches on youtube and the net and you'll see quite clearly that they have NON-WHITE supporters in their marches.

    They even fly the Israeli flag for ****'s sake, which the UAF would no doubt burn.

    The idea that the EDL is 'racist' is stupid. A few of its members no doubt are racist, but I don't think that's what the organisation stands for as a whole.

    ISLAM IS A RELIGION NOT A RACE.
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    "Mr Wilders, who has made no secret of his ambition to become Prime Minister, has called his indictment a political trial but the Amsterdam Court of Appeal decided that it was in the public interest to prosecute him because his comments have been “so insulting to Muslims”. "

    :facepalm2:
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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    "Mr Wilders, who has made no secret of his ambition to become Prime Minister, has called his indictment a political trial but the Amsterdam Court of Appeal decided that it was in the public interest to prosecute him because his comments have been “so insulting to Muslims”. "

    :facepalm2:
    Exactly, what the hell is happening in the Netherlands? It would be interesting to know what the levels of support for the prosecution are in the Dutch muslim community.
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    (Original post by Moe Lester)
    Exactly, what the hell is happening in the Netherlands? It would be interesting to know what the levels of support for the prosecution are in the Dutch muslim community.

    The Dutch Gov should be more concerned with protecting the right to free speech and expression rather than people being insulted, and that goes for everyone not just Muslims.
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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    The Dutch Gov should be more concerned with protecting the right to free speech and expression rather than people being insulted, and that goes for everyone not just Muslims.
    I agree, my point was who originally called for this prosecution? Muslims or the Dutch establishment? Do Dutch muslims as a community appear to support, oppose or particularly care about prosecuting Wilders?
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    (Original post by mechazoid)
    I am much more enghlightened than you, I make more money than you, study at a better uni on a better course and get more girls, white girls hahaha.
    Cool.
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    (Original post by Moe Lester)
    I agree, my point was who originally called for this prosecution? Muslims or the Dutch establishment? Do Dutch muslims as a community appear to support, oppose or particularly care about prosecuting Wilders?
    Wilders is an idiot. He is taking something out of context and using it as a method to gain support from others who nautrally dislike Muslims, and after viewing his Fitna clip will dislike Muslims even more so. Disgusting tactics, not worthy of a respectable MP.
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    (Original post by Moe Lester)
    I agree, my point was who originally called for this prosecution? Muslims or the Dutch establishment? Do Dutch muslims as a community appear to support, oppose or particularly care about prosecuting Wilders?

    I expect it was select members of the Dutch Government, the type of people which we are familiar with here and in the USA. 'PC' etc.. I also wouldn't be surprised if the Catholic church, COE backs this trial. After all, they took the side of Islam during the mohammad cartoon fiasco, and the side of the Ayatollah when he declared Fatwa against Salman Rushdie. :dontknow:
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    (Original post by mechazoid)
    I am much more enghlightened than you, I make more money than you, study at a better uni on a better course and get more girls, white girls hahaha.
    You are a nerd.
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    (Original post by ZizAli)
    Wilders is an idiot. He is taking something out of context and using it as a method to gain support from others who nautrally dislike Muslims, and after viewing his Fitna clip will dislike Muslims even more so. Disgusting tactics, not worthy of a respectable MP.
    What's your point? Wilders should be allowed to say what he does.
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    The more I see things like this happen, the less and less I mourn Europe's slow self-destruction. Which might be for the best. Hurry it up, kids, it's still pretty painful to watch.
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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    I expect it was select members of the Dutch Government, the type of people which we are familiar with here and in the USA. 'PC' etc..
    That's what I suspect.

    I also wouldn't be surprised if the Catholic church, COE backs this trial. After all, they took the side of Islam during the mohammad cartoon fiasco, and the side of the Ayatollah when he declared Fatwa against Salman Rushdie. :dontknow:
    Interesting, even the C of E, that I didn't know.
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    (Original post by Moe Lester)
    What's your point? Wilders should be allowed to say what he does.
    Not in his position. No way. He is cheating his way to power.
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    (Original post by ZizAli)
    Not in his position. No way. He is cheating his way to power.
    Can you explain what he has said so terrible?
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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    I also wouldn't be surprised if the Catholic church, COE backs this trial. After all, they took the side of Islam during the mohammad cartoon fiasco, and the side of the Ayatollah when he declared Fatwa against Salman Rushdie. :dontknow:
    With all these things it is the double standards that is also a major factor. Look at this clip from 4:04 on wards. It's a couple of minutes long and it is a discussion about freedom of speech with regards to the cartoon fiasco. The hypocrisy is so extreme it is unbelievable.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9NCkBLUFp0
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    (Original post by Moe Lester)
    Can you explain what he has said so terrible?
    His lies. He is misquoting the Quran. He is promoting hatred towards the Quran and Muslims. He has no right to do so, especially as an MP.
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    (Original post by ZizAli)
    His lies. He is misquoting the Quran. He is promoting hatred towards the Quran and Muslims. He has no right to do so, especially as an MP.
    He has every right, the foundations of modern European society have been built, especially in the Netherlands, upon Enlightenment values. Wilders is free to attack Islam, most non-muslims, find it a ridicoulus set of values. I have heard Wilders on numerous occasions say he has nothng against muslims, just Islam. As for attacks on Islam by intellectuals and politicans, they are going to become more and more frequent in Europe as Islam grows and electorates become Islamically aware. The Netherlands is one of the least religous nations on the planet, they have a fine tradition at standing up to the Church, just as I imagine most Dutch will not be prepared to be pushed around by Islam or a clueless, anti-freedom establishment....hence the fact Wilders may form the next Dutch government, or at least a large chunk of the opposition. If you don't like it...just leave, in free, modern democratic (just about still) people are going to attack and criticise your faith, if you are so insecure about it then as I said the door is wide open. My grandparents immigrated here for a better life in a free society, my Grandfather on my mother side fought in the British military against Nazism....I am not going to let the values he was prepared to die for be trampled easily in this continent, especially by a religon!

    Also, words are cheap...what lies, what hate? Show me...videos, newspapers .etc. and explain.
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    (Original post by Moe Lester)
    I agree, my point was who originally called for this prosecution? Muslims or the Dutch establishment? Do Dutch muslims as a community appear to support, oppose or particularly care about prosecuting Wilders?
    Very good point! I'm dutch myself and I have watched Wilders for many hours talking about his ideas in parliament, simply because I find him an interesting man. I don't support wilders although I do agree with some of his points.
    Believe it or not, the predictions say that by the next elections Wilders party could be the second largest party in the Netherlands - you can imagine it worries some people that such a large part of the population actually agree with him OR there is no other party that does anything about the problem so people just go for Wilders eventhough he is pretty harsh. I remember watching the news ages ago, telling us that the majority of the muslims in holland (especially young ones) do not feel welcome anymore and about 40% was actually considering leaving the country. The strange things is that hardly any of the muslims actually stick up for themselves they just let it happen. The muslim community is hardly involved in politics which makes them an easy target for wilders I guess.

    Wilders does have some crazy ideas, some are so weird that I almost felt like is he being serious or is he just trying to provoke things. Either way every time he gets in the headlines it's an extra bit of promotion for him. Many, especially in the lower classes (no offence) support him.
 
 
 
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