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    (Original post by Moe Lester)
    He has every right, the foundations of modern European society have been built, especially in the Netherlands, upon Enlightenment values. Wilders is free to attack Islam, most non-muslims, find it a ridicoulus set of values. I have heard Wilders on numerous occasions say he has nothng against muslims, just Islam. As for attacks on Islam by intellectuals and politicans, they are going to become more and more frequent in Europe as Islam grows and electorates become Islamically aware. Just look at the last 10 years, 10 years ago nobody was talking about Islam. If you don't like it...just leave, in free, modern democratic (just about still) people are going to attack and criticise your faith, if you are so insecure about it then as I said the door is wide open. My grandparents immigrated here for a better life in a free society, my Grandfather on my mother side fought in the British military against Nazism....I am not going to let the values he was prepared to die for be trampled easily in this continent, especially by a religon!

    Also, words are cheap...what lies, what hate? Show me...videos, newspapers .etc. and explain.
    Mate, I have no problems or concerns with attacks on Islam. Islam is growing faster than the 'free, modern, democratic' set of followers. I'm pleased for your grandparents, I'm greatful your grandfather helped deafeat pure evil. Now you can either join the British military and hope one day there is a war on Islam or continue posting online. Either way I win.
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    (Original post by ZizAli)
    With all these things it is the double standards that is also a major factor. Look at this clip from 4:04 on wards. It's a couple of minutes long and it is a discussion about freedom of speech with regards to the cartoon fiasco. The hypocrisy is so extreme it is unbelievable.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9NCkBLUFp0

    Free speech should mean the opinion you hate most is allowed to be aired freely. I don't care about hypocrisy, because i do not condone it. Nobody has the right to not be offended.
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    (Original post by ZizAli)
    Islam is growing faster than the 'free, modern, democratic' set of followers.
    So you're saying Islam is opposed to freedom, modernism and democracy?

    I'm pleased for your grandparents, I'm greatful your grandfather helped deafeat pure evil. Now you can either join the British military and hope one day there is a war on Islam or continue posting online. Either way I win
    You idiot, I don't want a war with Islam. I want our societies to remain, free-thinking, democratic and unafraid to speak honestly. As you are proving, I have doubts that Islam, in it's current form, is a friend of these values.
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    (Original post by ZizAli)
    Mate, I have no problems or concerns with attacks on Islam. Islam is growing faster than the 'free, modern, democratic' set of followers. I'm pleased for your grandparents, I'm greatful your grandfather helped deafeat pure evil. Now you can either join the British military and hope one day there is a war on Islam or continue posting online. Either way I win.

    You take this all conquering attitude and then you complain when you are confronted on it? You do a disservice to those Muslims who do not cream their pants at the thought of a global caliphate, you make their lives harder and you segregate them from their communities.
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    (Original post by mechazoid)
    I take it you support him because he supports gay rights.
    Something wrong with this?

    Why shouldn't they have the same rights as heterosexuals/bisexuals/asexuals etc.
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    (Original post by mechazoid)
    I'd think he was a dirty freak....

    Typical right wing thing though, going with rent boys....

    These guys are crazy, the only good thing about holland is its immigrant population, white people are boring.
    Are you trolling? Or are you a bigot?

    There are many 'white' (i.e. pale-skinned?) immigrants in the Netherlands.
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    (Original post by Pop_tart)
    I don't support wilders although I do agree with some of his points.
    Same.

    Believe it or not, the predictions say that by the next elections Wilders party could be the second largest party in the Netherlands - you can imagine it worries some people that such a large part of the population actually agree with him OR there is no other party that does anything about the problem so people just go for Wilders eventhough he is pretty harsh.
    The pathetic inactive ruling classes of many European countries is the reason so many people turn towards extreme parties like the BNP and the, albeit much less extreme, Party for Freedom that Wilders leads.

    I remember watching the news ages ago, telling us that the majority of the muslims in holland (especially young ones) do not feel welcome anymore and about 40% was actually considering leaving the country.
    What is happening in the Netherlands, it used to be one of the bastions of tolerance, liberal-left craziness .etc. Has public opinion shifted so significantly in recent years?
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    (Original post by mechazoid)
    I am much more enghlightened than you, I make more money than you, study at a better uni on a better course and get more girls, white girls hahaha.
    What has this got to do with the issue?

    And how are 'white girls' in any way relevant to the issue?

    Are you terribly confused?
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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    You take this all conquering attitude and then you complain when you are confronted on it? You do a disservice to those Muslims who do not cream their pants at the thought of a global caliphate, you make their lives harder and you segregate them from their communities.
    Confronted on what? What exactly is your problem with Islam? I am telling you that Islam is the fastest growing religion. Therefore it does not resemble the picture that is being painted by Geert Wilders of Islam. Islam is a good religion with good values. Whether you beleive it is the truth or not is up to you.
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    (Original post by Moe Lester)
    So you're saying Islam is opposed to freedom, modernism and democracy?



    You idiot, I don't want a war with Islam. I want our societies to remain, free-thinking, democratic and unafraid to speak honestly. As you are proving, I have doubts that Islam, in it's current form, is a friend of these values.
    You can put words in my mouth all day. You can writing your passionate lectures about how society should be run. None of this concerns me as it has nothing to do with Islam. So do continue.
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    (Original post by ZizAli)
    Confronted on what? What exactly is your problem with Islam? I am telling you that Islam is the fastest growing religion. Therefore it does not resemble the picture that is being painted by Geert Wilders of Islam. Islam is a good religion with good values. Whether you beleive it is the truth or not is up to you.

    Regardless of it's values, the question is whether you want to impose them on others. Which is exactly what the Wilders trial represents. Why should we make exceptions for Islam with regards to our free society?
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    I suggest you watch 'Fitna'. Very scary.
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    (Original post by ZizAli)
    You can put words in my mouth all day. You can writing your passionate lectures about how society should be run..
    No it's generally religon that does that, I think people should say what the hell they want, especially regards religon, without fear of the law.

    None of this concerns me as it has nothing to do with Islam. So do continue
    Bit closed-minded eh?
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    (Original post by Moe Lester)
    No it's generally religon that does that, I think people should say what the hell they want, especially regards religon, without fear of the law.



    Bit closed-minded eh?
    Freedom of speach goes hand in hand with personal responsability. If I was racist, should I be allowed to go on daytime TV and speak of my hatred towards other races?
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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    Regardless of it's values, the question is whether you want to impose them on others. Which is exactly what the Wilders trial represents. Why should we make exceptions for Islam with regards to our free society?
    What do you mean impose them on others? Geert Wilders is being trialled because he is an MP who is being stupid and offending Muslims.
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    (Original post by ZizAli)
    Freedom of speach goes hand in hand with personal responsability. If I was racist, should I be allowed to go on daytime TV and speak of my hatred towards other races?
    Well maybe, depends on what you are saying.

    Islam/Muslims isn't a race though, it's a politico-spiritual system that people by choice choose to follow, thus people have every right to be critical of it from dawn till dusk...just as people can spend all day being critical of Socialism or the role of women in Russian society.
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    (Original post by Moe Lester)
    Well maybe, depends on what you are saying.

    Islam/Muslims isn't a race though, it's a politico-spiritual system that people by choice choose to follow, thus people have every right to be critical of it from dawn till dusk...just as people can spend all day being critical of Socialism or the role of women in Russian society.
    OK, I don't know if Geert Wilders should actually be on trial. I don't know the ins and outs of politics and law and what can or can't be prosecuted. However I am not sorry he is on trial at all. He is an insulting muppet.
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    (Original post by ZizAli)
    What do you mean impose them on others? Geert Wilders is being trialled because he is an MP who is being stupid and offending Muslims.
    Should Boris Johnson go on trial for offending people in Liverpool?
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    (Original post by iwilson03)
    Should Boris Johnson go on trial for offending people in Liverpool?
    What did he say? If he was taken up on it now would he still say the same thing or appologise? Does he reffer to the Liverpudlian culture as 'retarded'?
 
 
 
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