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    (Original post by ZizAli)
    What do you mean impose them on others? Geert Wilders is being trialled because he is an MP who is being stupid and offending Muslims.

    Free society demands that you are not persecuted for your opinion or views. Islam demands the opposite. The recent trend of catering for primitive and brutal Islamic demands reveals an erosion of the respect western society has/had for liberty and freedom. The main reason for this is cowardice in the face of empty threats. Islamic extremism is a bully in who's presence we are cowering.
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    (Original post by ZizAli)
    Freedom of speach goes hand in hand with personal responsability. If I was racist, should I be allowed to go on daytime TV and speak of my hatred towards other races?


    I think you misunderstand responsibility. True responsibility means you have the right and freedom to make the choice. I think you are talking about obedience, which does not and should not go hand in hand with free speech.
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    (Original post by iwilson03)
    Should Boris Johnson go on trial for offending people in Liverpool?
    :rofl: Johnson was ruder to the people of Liverpool than Wilders has been about Islam.
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    (Original post by ZizAli)
    What did he say? If he was taken up on it now would he still say the same thing or appologise? Does he reffer to the Liverpudlian culture as 'retarded'?
    You are honestly offended because he said Islam was retarded? Seriously grow up, surely Islam is matue enough to not be offended by playground insults like that.
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    (Original post by Moe Lester)
    You are honestly offended because he said Islam was retarded? Seriously grow up, surely Islam is matue enough to not be offended by playground insults like that.
    I am not offended. I am angered at his Fitna movie however.
    You said it. Playground insults, the man is nothing more than a kid in a playground, what is he doing in politics?
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    I think Islam is retarded. In the same way i think all religions are retarded, add to that all of the British political parties, nationalism, white supremacy, socialism,, patriotism etc..etc...

    Would you seriously have me stopped from airing this opinion. Would you prevent me from doing this with force if you had the power to do so?
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    (Original post by ZizAli)
    What did he say? If he was taken up on it now would he still say the same thing or appologise? Does he reffer to the Liverpudlian culture as 'retarded'?
    He said that Liverpool was wallowing in self guilt over the death of a Liverpudlian in Iraq, which was bad but the point is that we shouldn't prosecute over this sort of thing.

    Also retarded can just mean slow and backward, it isn't as offensive as you might immediately think.

    But none of this is really to the point. You may think that Wilders is stupid, but if we prosecuted politicians for saying stupid things then we wouldn't really have many left...
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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    Free society demands that you are not persecuted for your opinion or views. Islam demands the opposite. The recent trend of catering for primitive and brutal Islamic demands reveals an erosion of the respect western society has/had for liberty and freedom. The main reason for this is cowardice in the face of empty threats. Islamic extremism is a bully in who's presence we are cowering.
    Indeed, unlike many on TSR i don't think Islam is particularly much worse than Christianity. Post reformation Christianity behaved in a similar fashion as Islamists do today, it was through critical analysis and propagation of values like freedom of speech, secularism and so forth that Christianity had to evolve into the more spiritual, village fete, vicar around for tea role that it has adopted in the West, or at least western Europe. We must not fight repressive Christianity for centuries, only to roll over like lambs to the slaughter in the face of radical Islam. I hope the Dutch remember, concession after concession here and there to aggressive religon leads to gradual erosion of the very freedoms we cherish...remember the slide towards quasi-facism will be long and slow, this trial is important. If Wilders is convicted it will be a watermark moment in modern European history, and a deeply worrying development.
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    (Original post by ZizAli)
    I am angered at his Fitna movie however.
    Fitna is a pile of ****, I was bored after 5 minutes. I expected something more deep or intelligent...simply playing scary background music and finding videos of terrorists isn't a particularly clever way of confronting Islam.

    You said it. Playground insults, the man is nothing more than a kid in a playground, what is he doing in politics?
    Dunno, I guess a lot of the Dutch electorate agree with him I guess
    http://www.nrc.nl/international/arti...he_Netherlands
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    Are you guys kidding me? Of course freedom of speech is important, but it's way beyond that by now: he actively encourages people to hate muslim religion. The main complaint is not freedom of speech... the Netherlands is one of the most free countries in the world. I'm Dutch and I've followed the media reports for years. There's nothing good going on around this guy! He's entitled to his opinion, but he's forcing it upon the Netherlands now, and it's bad, and scary!
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    (Original post by Moe Lester)
    Indeed, unlike many on TSR i don't think Islam is particularly much worse than Christianity. Post reformation Christianity behaved in a similar fashion as Islamists do today, it was through critical analysis and propagation of values like freedom of speech, secularism and so forth that Christianity had to evolve into the more spiritual, village fete, vicar around for tea role that it has adopted in the West, or at least western Europe. We must not fight repressive Christianity for centuries, only to roll over like lambs to the slaughter in the face of radical Islam. I hope the Dutch remember, concession after concession here and there to aggressive religon leads to gradual erosion of the very freedoms we cherish...remember the slide towards quasi-facism will be long and slow, this trial is important. If Wilders is convicted it will be a watermark moment in modern European history, and a deeply worrying development.

    I wish somebody would remind the Dutch that they were champions of the enlightenment, and a safe haven for some of the most illustrious thinkers of that time, who had to flee from their countries in fear of Christian opression.
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    (Original post by Zenobia)
    Are you guys kidding me? Of course freedom of speech is important, but it's way beyond that by now: he actively encourages people to hate muslim religion. The main complaint is not freedom of speech... the Netherlands is one of the most free countries in the world. I'm Dutch and I've followed the media reports for years. There's nothing good going on around this guy! He's entitled to his opinion, but he's forcing it upon the Netherlands now, and it's bad, and scary!
    So you want him prosecuted? For exercising his right to freedom of speech? He isn't forcing his opinion on the Netherlands, that is the point of democracy - you can choose to ignore a party and vote for another..
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    (Original post by Zenobia)
    Are you guys kidding me? Of course freedom of speech is important, but it's way beyond that by now: he actively encourages people to hate muslim religion.
    I can see why people are concerned, but it's the same issue with the BNP in Britain; this is the downside of freedom of speech, I guess. But I think we have to credit folks with enough intelligence to know when to stop listening to what politicians are saying, it's not like we don't have a choice.

    ED:gr
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    (Original post by Zenobia)
    Are you guys kidding me? Of course freedom of speech is important, but it's way beyond that by now: he actively encourages people to hate muslim religion.
    And? I'm not sure he causes hate, I have no issue with people disliking Islam.

    The main complaint is not freedom of speech... the Netherlands is was one of the most free countries in the world.
    I'm Dutch and I've followed the media reports for years. There's nothing good going on around this guy! He's entitled to his opinion, but he's forcing it upon the Netherlands now, and it's bad, and scary!
    How is he forcing it on anybody, he is using perfectly legitimate political strategies in his campaign. Looks more like a case of the Dutch voting with their feet against the fundamentally anti free speech and spineless establishment. It's becoming increasingly obvious that voters are turning away from the mainstream and towards vaguely facist strongmen like Wilders or even worse Le Pen, the late Haider and even I suppose Griffin across Europe...if normal political politcs cut the ******** and acted in a useful manner this silly situation wouldn't occur :mad:
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    (Original post by Aeolus)
    I wish somebody would remind the Dutch that they were champions of the enlightenment, and a safe haven for some of the most illustrious thinkers of that time, who had to flee from their countries in fear of Christian opression.
    It isn't the Dutch that need waking up....surely just the poltical class, don't the idiots realise this sort of thing is going to turn normal,decent and moderate Dutch people towards Wilders or possibly worse...
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    Gilders doesn't stand for freedom of speech and all that BS. People here insulting the Quran have never actually read it and so have no right to form a judgement based on small extracts from it (I may conclude Harry Potter's evil if I only read the bits where Voldemort is saying kill mudbloods etc.). Banning the Quran does not only offend a fifth of the world's population but also goes against the basis of freedom of speech. The Quran was the best system to follow to bring peace to the divided and battle wearied Arabian peninsula at the time of the Prophet and indeed if you read your history, Muslims treated minorities much better than the Christians before them in Spain, Sicily etc. They also made enormous scientific advances which became the base for modern scientific research.
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    He is inconsistent though, he calls for a ban of the Quran due to its content inciting violence, and yet he doesn't call for a ban on the Bible?
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    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    Gilders doesn't stand for freedom of speech and all that BS. People here insulting the Quran have never actually read it and so have no right to form a judgement based on small extracts from it (I may conclude Harry Potter's evil if I only read the bits where Voldemort is saying kill mudbloods etc.).
    Yes they do. This is what freedom of speech is, being able to say exactly what we want.

    I really couldn't care less that your political movement.....sorry, religion finds this offensive.

    You demonstrate the typical Islamic hypocrisy of: 'I demand the right to say what i want but anyone who criticises my faith should be stifled'
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    Why would you want to offend people just because you can? How juvenile. And don't bother quoting me with rhetoric about Islamozombiefacist taking over Europe, his film was a blatant provocation.
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    (Original post by mechazoid)
    I'd think he was a dirty freak....

    Typical right wing thing though, going with rent boys....

    These guys are crazy, the only good thing about holland is its immigrant population, white people are boring.

    wait and see my friend. wait and see.
 
 
 
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