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How fair is Fairtrade watch

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    "Fair" trade products are for white, rich, upper-middle class kids who need to feel better about themselves.

    "Oh but if you buy fair trade coffee* (and pay 5 gazillion more), the enormous amount of 10 people in Brazil will get to eat rice instead of crap!!!"

    :woo:

    Poverty is no more.

    *Starbucks fair trade ofc.
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    (Original post by Cesare Borgia)
    In human nature, the happiness of your neighbour vs. personal gain, which do you think will triumph?

    Free Trade will be fair when it is conducted by emotionless robots.
    You still have the idea that economics is a zero-sum game. It is not.

    In this scenario, I do not care about how happy my neighbour is. If I can, I will screw him over. But he is not an idiot, and he will not accept a deal which is bad for him. So we negotiate and haggle, and if there is a deal we are both happy with, then it is in both of our interests to take it.
    It is possible for two people, who both care only about their own interests to reach an agreement that benefits both of them. I am well aware personal gain is the only objective in free trade, but that doesn't mean somebody has to lose.
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    (Original post by The_Octopus)
    You still have the idea that economics is a zero-sum game. It is not.

    In this scenario, I do not care about how happy my neighbour is. If I can, I will screw him over. But he is not an idiot, and he will not accept a deal which is bad for him. So we negotiate and haggle, and if there is a deal we are both happy with, then it is in both of our interests to take it.
    It is possible for two people, who both care only about their own interests to reach an agreement that benefits both of them. I am well aware personal gain is the only objective in free trade, but that doesn't mean somebody has to lose.
    Would you act this way if you were in a position to force your neighbour to give you eggs at low cost?
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    (Original post by Cesare Borgia)
    Free Trade, by it's nature, is exploitative. Fairtrade is just a load of liberal guilt crap for helping guardian readers feel good about themselves.
    Who is being exploited?
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    (Original post by PGtips92)
    Who is being exploited?
    African farmers 'n that.
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    I think fair trade is a good thing on the face of it. However it depends on the companies.
    I would recommend looking into suma, perhaps dove farm, cadbury of course.
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    (Original post by Cesare Borgia)
    African farmers 'n that.
    Trade restrictions like the CAP are alot more exploitive of African farmers than free trade.
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    (Original post by Cesare Borgia)
    Would you act this way if you were in a position to force your neighbour to give you eggs at low cost?
    (Original post by *Star*Guitar*)
    Because we all have that option - not. You are assuming equality of bargaining power, which isn't realistic.
    These are basically the same question - my answer is that in a situation where one person controls all available supplies of a vital resource, such as water or food, then exploitation can be a problem and the state should intervene. But were fair trade to exist, this case would not arise and so to suggest the all capitalism is exploitative is incorrect as I have given an example where it is not and only is very specific examples which, incidentally, only ever occur when the government intervenes, is capitalism exploitative.
    But in this situation where I control what someone else needs, and they cannot get it elsewhere, Fairtrade isn't going to help is it? Fairtrade is about protecting the ability of people to sell what they produce, not what they buy what they need. If there were not tariffs or quotas then people would already be free to sell what they produce to whoever wants to buy it, and when it comes to chocolate, coffee or bananas there are lots of buyers, and lots of sellers, so this monopoly problem doesn't happen.

    I accept that while there is not free trade between two countries, then the Fairtrade program can help. Buying coffee off a poor man at above the market price of coffee will help that man, just like giving him charity will help him but free trade is also fair, and nobody has to pay above market price.
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    I suspect that fair trade involves me paying 3 times as much for a product, the originator receiving a 10% premium, and the supermarkets enjoying a great big excess of profit from the change. Amarite?

    It's a fair trade alright. For Tesco.
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    (Original post by Cesare Borgia)
    African farmers 'n that.
    How so?
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    (Original post by Howard)
    How so?
    I don't know I'm only going by the pictures of happy looking black blokes with machetes on the fair trade bars of chocolate.
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    i like fairtrade chocolate
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    (Original post by The_Octopus)
    You still have the idea that economics is a zero-sum game. It is not.

    In this scenario, I do not care about how happy my neighbour is. If I can, I will screw him over. But he is not an idiot, and he will not accept a deal which is bad for him. So we negotiate and haggle, and if there is a deal we are both happy with, then it is in both of our interests to take it.
    It is possible for two people, who both care only about their own interests to reach an agreement that benefits both of them. I am well aware personal gain is the only objective in free trade, but that doesn't mean somebody has to lose.
    In many cases, the person you are "negotiating" with will have very little room to play with, as they desperately need the money. Many places there is a monopoly of trade, and the only way you can sell your goods is through one company. That means - if you want to feed your kids, well.. You have to sell your goods for the price that is offered, regardless of how unfair it is.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    I suspect that fair trade involves me paying 3 times as much for a product, the originator receiving a 10% premium, and the supermarkets enjoying a great big excess of profit from the change. Amarite?

    It's a fair trade alright. For Tesco.
    Exactly... no country or the great masss of the poor people will ever get "rich" because of fair trade. Companies will get rich (Starbucks) because of the humongous weight that the term "fair trade" has with WESTERN consumers (oh my god! it's fair trade! it means we're helping poor people! let's buy a truck full of fair trade crap).

    Big corporations do not even need to come up with anything anymore. They just put "fair trade" on their products and they get rich whilst the smaller shops/companies who can not afford to buy and sell "fair trade" will eat **** and go bankrupt. And guess what happens next... ZOMG!!1!!11! BIG CORPORATIONS ARE GETTING BIGGER!!! RUN!!11
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    A company cannot just put fairtrade on their products, there are rules and regulations to it..
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    (Original post by EvilSheep)
    A company cannot just put fairtrade on their products, there are rules and regulations to it..
    what...I didn't say that they do not REALLY sell fair trade products. The products ARE fair trade which is why most smaller companies/shops can not buy them whilst bigger companies can and do. (companies do buy fair trade products...they are the ones who pay the poor people in the 3rd world not you -- you will pay the companies when they make these products available here in the UK).
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    I went into one of the coffee houses to buy a bottle of orange juice. There was only 1 typoe to chose from....fair trade - that's not fair, what about healthy competition? Desperate for a drink I purchased the orange juice. It was expensive, but I was very thirsty. One sip was enough, talk about caustic? It was absolutely disgusting wholly sour, couldn't drink it.
    I felt totally ripped off for something that was unconsumable ....... not very fair to me!!

    Btw, I'm one of those people who is adverse to buying bags in shops, I just refuse to shop in those kind of places. No-one was bothered about the environment when all of the foot and mouth -infected cattle carcasses were burnt, what's the difference now??!!
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    (Original post by SunOfABeach)
    Exactly... no country or the great masss of the poor people will ever get "rich" because of fair trade. Companies will get rich (Starbucks) because of the humongous weight that the term "fair trade" has with WESTERN consumers (oh my god! it's fair trade! it means we're helping poor people! let's buy a truck full of fair trade crap).
    Indeed. I love paying $6 for a large mocha in the knowledge that 0.0001 penny of it may one day reach an unknown coffee plantation worker in Guatemala.
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    (Original post by SunOfABeach)
    Exactly... no country or the great masss of the poor people will ever get "rich" because of fair trade. Companies will get rich (Starbucks) because of the humongous weight that the term "fair trade" has with WESTERN consumers (oh my god! it's fair trade! it means we're helping poor people! let's buy a truck full of fair trade crap).

    Big corporations do not even need to come up with anything anymore. They just put "fair trade" on their products and they get rich whilst the smaller shops/companies who can not afford to buy and sell "fair trade" will eat **** and go bankrupt. And guess what happens next... ZOMG!!1!!11! BIG CORPORATIONS ARE GETTING BIGGER!!! RUN!!11

    How do you feel about Suma and Dove Farm?
    Or one world is enough?
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Indeed. I love paying $6 for a large mocha in the knowledge that 0.0001 penny of it may one day reach an unknown coffee plantation worker in Guatemala.
    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/46cd2578-3...0779e2340.html
 
 
 
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