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    (Original post by flugestuge)
    The reason is easy to understand.
    The very brightest and most ambitious in the UK go to Oxford and Cambridge for their undergraduate studies.
    For postgraduate courses, the very brightest and most ambitious in the UK flee to Harvard, Yale, MIT and Stanford.
    So when you apply for a postgraduate course in a decent university in the UK, you are largely competing with the second tier of the UK's students.

    For instance, at Oxford, apart from a couple of courses, like the insanely competitive postgraduate BPhil and the BCL,
    it is much easier to get in at postgraduate level than it is to gain admission at the undergraduate level.
    Many Oxbridge graduates leave for a lucrative career in the city, while Oxbridge graduates who plan academic careers try to head to the US.
    A few Oxbridgers, usually the less ambitious, stay on in the UK for further studies.
    The brightest and most ambitious at Oxford head off to the Magic Circle, McKinsey/Bain/BCG, investment banks and the US.
    You know, the states is not the be all and end all of every ambitious student. A lot of people don't want to go and live there (I don't), and prefer to stay in Europe. Just look around all the lecturers/professors that have not graduated from the states and you'll see that there is no need to go to the states for an academic career.

    The only attraction would be the money
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    (Original post by flugestuge)
    For postgraduate courses, the very brightest and most ambitious in the UK flee to Harvard, Yale, MIT and Stanford.
    So when you apply for a postgraduate course in a decent university in the UK, you are largely competing with the second tier of the UK's students.
    You forgot the rest of the world. The very best and brightest of the rest of Europe, Asia, the US and so on also disperse and compete for places at Oxbridge and at the top US universities. That's a whole other ballgame, into which you clearly have very poor insight.
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    (Original post by flugestuge)
    Compare the difficulty of getting onto a DPhil program in English at Oxford,
    to the difficulty of getting onto the PhD program in English at Harvard.
    http://english.fas.harvard.edu/programs/graduate
    I think that you will agree that the difficulty of getting onto the latter is much greater.
    I suppose you thought you were going to wind me up by that, or you wouldn't have chosen that particular course, but I'm afraid you're jesting at scars that never felt a wound there. Nice try, though.:rolleyes:

    I'm just generally fed up with your strange charades and pathetic attempts to bully people and make them feel bad about themselves whenever you sense an opportunity, that's all. I've watched you play your weird little games for years now. God knows why you feel you have to do it - I suppose you must be getting some sort of kick out of it - but your infallible instinct for kicking whenever you sense what you perceive to be weakness is just sickening.
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    (Original post by flugestuge)
    Some Asians I know ( Pakistanis and Chinese ) tell me that the top students from their countries head to the US Ivy League too.
    I think we all realize on what you base your preposterous claims.

    Well, my uncle's dentist says you're wrong, and he knows "some Asians" too.
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    (Original post by crackingod)
    I could go through the stats for all courses, but I won't :p:

    I just got the impression that most "general" (meaning not too specialized) humanities and social sciences courses are very popular!
    I'm not working on the basis of stats - just the people I know on certain courses who are clearly complete idiots and there because they pay full international fees. They may have beaten off lots of other even stupider people to get on the course - they just aren't, as a course group, up to the calibre of the rest of the university. Believe me, these people - and courses - are out there.
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    (Original post by Athena)
    I'm not working on the basis of stats - just the people I know on certain courses who are clearly complete idiots and there because they pay full international fees. They may have beaten off lots of other even stupider people to get on the course - they just aren't, as a course group, up to the calibre of the rest of the university. Believe me, these people - and courses - are out there.
    I believe you!
    Hopefully I won't end up in any of these courses
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    (Original post by flugestuge)
    The reason is easy to understand.
    The very brightest and most ambitious in the UK go to Oxford and Cambridge for their undergraduate studies.
    For postgraduate courses, the very brightest and most ambitious in the UK flee to Harvard, Yale, MIT and Stanford.
    So when you apply for a postgraduate course in a decent university in the UK, you are largely competing with the second tier of the UK's students.

    For instance, at Oxford, apart from a couple of courses, like the insanely competitive postgraduate BPhil and the BCL,
    it is much easier to get in at postgraduate level than it is to gain admission at the undergraduate level.
    Many Oxbridge graduates leave for a lucrative career in the city, while Oxbridge graduates who plan academic careers try to head to the US.
    A few Oxbridgers, usually the less ambitious, stay on in the UK for further studies.
    The brightest and most ambitious at Oxford head off to the Magic Circle, McKinsey/Bain/BCG, investment banks and the US.

    The kind of research I do doesn't go on in the US because they're squeamish about it (oh no, not DNA!) - in fact, the majority of this kind of research goes on in just three centres in the UK. There are plenty of other examples in other subjects of people remaining in the UK because the UK has the world leading academics and research centres for their field of interest. As usual, your sweeping generalisations, intended to offend, are incorrect...
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    I think looking at US stats is a little misleading, as many universities aim to fund all the PhD students they admit, naturally making the numbers look rather intimidating! The impression I have about UK admissions is that it isn't as tough as in the US to get the place, but getting a funded spot is extremely tough.

    This is based on massive research I did a couple of years back when I started the US PhD application process But then I decided that their system just wasn't for me. It is, arguably, a more rigorous preparation for professional academic life, but it breeds attitudes which I personally find not to be conducive to producing my best work.

    That's probably my second-tier outlook talking, though.
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    (Original post by flugestuge)
    Sensitive much ?
    Funny how you completely ignored the rest of my post... And no, actually I couldn't care less, sorry to disappoint you there.
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    (Original post by Belphoebe)
    I think looking at US stats is a little misleading, as many universities aim to fund all the PhD students they admit, naturally making the numbers look rather intimidating! The impression I have about UK admissions is that it isn't as tough as in the US to get the place, but getting a funded spot is extremely tough.
    Exactly. This is what many people fail to realise. If you truly compare apples to apples (i.e. funded places to funded places), both the US and the UK are comparable.
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    It makes no difference. Firstly, you did a cybernetics degree, and Reading has a major specialism in that area, particularly given all the blue chips based in Reading where everyone seems to go afterwards. It all depends on how good it is for your course, and if you are applying to jobs in that area then employers will know that specialism.
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    We should actually be laughing at the US system. It may very well be harder to get into Harvard and Yale than Oxbridge and costs twice the amount. However, Oxbridge are equally famous and have the same (if not better) job prospects (according to THES world rankings).

    We have it great over here, compared to the US and they should be jealous of our system, not the other way around.
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    I am not sure why this topic spiralled so badly out of control so quickly, especially when there is little difference both academically and ideologically between British and east-coast institutions; most were established (in)directly by the British... But it is interesting to note that if you negate the population difference between the UK and US then Oxford actually gets almost twice as many applicants for doctorate-level English than Harvard, though the acceptance is rate is higher (29% vs. 19%) in England, because of the lower fees one would assume.
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    (Original post by ritchie888)
    Hey all,

    I've recently been accepted to do my masters at Imperial, and although I'm very happy and proud to have been accepted at such a good university, it doesn't seem as impressive as if I was accepted there as an undergrad.

    To have been accepted there for my bachelors I would have needed AAB at A2. Which I didn't have! It seems like it's much easier to be accepted on postgraduate courses than undergraduate.

    It's not to say that I don't think my application was good. My modules from my bachelors and references were very good/relevant for the course I applied for, but it still seems like being accepted at such a good university is more impressive than at undergrad level.

    What are everyone's views on this?

    Cheers,
    Ritchie
    If you weren't the real deal Imperial would have rejected you. And also even though an undergraduate degree at Imperial is rigorous, it isn't in the same league of intensity as an Imperial postgraduate degree. If you graduate with a good score from an MSc at Imperial then you have got a higher qualification than anybody from Imperial, Oxbridge or wherever, who just has a Bachelors, so yes it is impressive, and with that you're "top tier" by any standards.
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    If you weren't the real deal Imperial would have rejected you. And also even though an undergraduate degree at Imperial is rigorous, it isn't in the same league of intensity as an Imperial postgraduate degree. If you graduate with a good score from an MSc at Imperial then you have got a higher qualification than anybody from Imperial, Oxbridge or wherever, who just has a Bachelors, so yes it is impressive, and with that you're "top tier" by any standards.
    Not quite sure I agree. There's a few people in the mech eng MSc for example who seem to have slipped through. Their English/analytical skills not being quite up to grasp. However you are right in the fact that if you do get a good score then yes, you are the ****.

    An MSc at Imperial, in most occasions, is simply the last year of the equivalent course + 4 months of research = more time for your final project. PhD on the other hand is a whole different ball game. Have yet to meet an incompetent or even unimpressive PhD student here.
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    The problem is that you judge people based on expectation and often snap situations. Not everyone 'worthy' comes out well under such an examination and other do better than they should.
 
 
 
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