Turn on thread page Beta

Faith schools shouldn't receive government funding watch

Announcements
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    I'd personally prefer it if the government didn't fund schools at all, and all schools became private schools.
    (And then people who can't afford it can apply for grants from the government).

    I think that would improve the standards of schools, since all schools are now competing with each other in the same way that any other business does - and it would get rid of the complaint that "my parents weren't rich so my education was disadvantaged".

    Then religious schools would just be providing a particular type of religious education - it's their school, they can provide their services in whichever way they'd like, and people wouldstill be able to go there, even if they weren't particularly rich.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by AnythingButChardonnay)
    Since when has Britain been secular?
    Well, Christianity being the official religion of the country suggests we're not secular but that doesn't necessarily mean we're a country full of devout practising Christians. People keep insisting we're a Christian country even though various laws would smack in the face of Christian values (e.g. abortion).

    Funny though. I'm sure enough people are fine with an Anglican or Roman Catholic school receiving state funding but will soon kick up a stink if Muslim schools did the same. Either all faith schools should receive funding, or none at all.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    I'd personally prefer it if the government didn't fund schools at all, and all schools became private schools.
    (And then people who can't afford it can apply for grants from the government).

    I think that would improve the standards of schools, since all schools are now competing with each other in the same way that any other business does - and it would get rid of the complaint that "my parents weren't rich so my education was disadvantaged".

    Then religious schools would just be providing a particular type of religious education - it's their school, they can provide their services in whichever way they'd like, and people wouldstill be able to go there, even if they weren't particularly rich.
    grants would be stupid
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by loki276)
    Faith schools only get better grades because they choose the best applicants

    also faith schools cant discriminate on religion, if you do get discriminated on religion take them to court its there for a reason
    I don't think any state school should be able to "choose" applicants in order to boost their own status. The whole point of state education is that it's meant to be free and available for anyone who lives in the catchment area. I don't know much about the English system but in Scotland schools don't choose pupils based on ability, they have to accept anyone (except faith schools, who are allowed to pick pupils based on their religion).

    Faith schools can discriminate by religion. Technically, they're not allowed to, but they get around it. My mum works in education - there are loopholes which allow faith schools to hire staff of their religion over staff of other religions.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by moregano)
    I don't think any state school should be able to "choose" applicants in order to boost their own status. The whole point of state education is that it's meant to be free and available for anyone who lives in the catchment area. I don't know much about the English system but in Scotland schools don't choose pupils based on ability, they have to accept anyone (except faith schools, who are allowed to pick pupils based on their religion).

    Faith schools can discriminate by religion. Technically, they're not allowed to, but they get around it. My mum works in education - there are loopholes which allow faith schools to hire staff of their religion over staff of other religions.
    that's what I meant they have crap quality of teaching but get better grades

    also if there are loopholes they must be closed than instead of removing funding

    Most faith schools that I know of are only partly funded by the government and seeing as the parents of the children are paying taxes as well why should the children not get free education as well
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    See the statistics and then come back to me. They perform better, need on in all less funding and religion doesn't play the minimalist role in the whole process.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by loki276)
    Faith schools only get better grades because they choose the best applicants
    Arguably yes, but private funding inevitably helps. They are still cheaper for the government to run.

    (Original post by loki276)
    also faith schools cant discriminate on religion, if you do get discriminated on religion take them to court its there for a reason
    Faith schools can discriminate when employing staff and choosing students. You may be thinking of Jewish schools, which are a dodgy area because it concerns race as well as religion.
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by loki276)
    Seeing as I am Muslim and I don't hate you your argument fails
    I said "Islam" as in the ideology, not "muslims" as individuals.

    "Almost as much as Islam hates me," and "almost as much a Muslim hates me" and are two different things. The first is an ideology, and the second an individual with their own likes/dislikes and character.:rolleyes:

    But anyway, you're a bad Muslim then - if you followed your faith strictly, you'd only be friends with other Muslims. The Qur'an instructs muslims NOT to take the Jews and the Christians for friends, and calls un-believers like myself "the vilest of animals" and "losers.":rolleyes:
    Sort of stinks doesn't it? A faith trying to dictate who you can and can't be friends with??? I used to do all the religion stuff, until I realized I was breaking my faith all the time, and kicked it in to touch.

    Why don't you do the same?
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by loki276)
    grants would be stupid
    Why? They seem to work fine for university?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by JoshC)
    Without government spending we would have to rely on external sources of funding. We already have to pay for transport costs ourselves which is one of the changes made a few years ago. It costs about £200 per child which many parents struggle to find.
    No no, I'm not saying just cut all funding now and expect the school to carry on like normal lol. I'm saying that faith schools should either be private schools, or regular state schools which accept everyone and don't teach religion.

    (Original post by JoshC)
    Maybe you think that you wouldn't get considered for a place but did you actually try? It alright saying that you can't get a place but if you never tried then you can't moan. Yes, you mentioned about a parent not getting a job, or someone did, and they didn't get it, had you ever thought that the people who got the job were actually, just possibly, better qualified, rather than your excuse that they were catholic? Not only that but maybe they offered other things such as understanding the religions of the kids and can help with other areas in the school.
    I didn't try for a place at that school, my parents didn't want me to go there anyway and there was an equally good "normal" school in the area too. But I know of people who did crazy things to try and get their kids into the RC high school, many ended up on waiting lists for years when they could have walked straight in if they were Catholic. As for the jobs, my mum was competing with other teachers straight out of teacher training, and I'm sure many of them were equally qualified for the job. Out of maybe 100 applicants for each place, only a small proportion of which would have been Catholic, it seems a bit of a coincidence that all of the teaching posts in RC schools (at least 3 or 4 my mum's applied for) went to Catholics.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    We should withdraw public funding for faith schools, leave it to religious organisations in the UK to give them endowments supplemented by fee-paying at their discretion. The government should continue to regulate them as it does with private schools. We should also ban foreign investment or donations into British charitable and religious institutions as well as schools; this would prevent the Saudis from using their petrodollars to spread Wahhabism and support Islamists.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by moregano)
    The UK is meant to be a secular, multicultural society, so why are religious schools funded by the government?
    I'm sorry, but you just contradicted yourself in your first sentance.
    Multicultural INCLUDES all religions. So, you take away the religious school's funding, and the school shuts down, creating a less multicultural society.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by loki276)
    that's what I meant they have crap quality of teaching but get better grades
    What? That doesn't make any sense. They don't have "crap quality of teaching", well obviously some do and some don't, but that has nothing to do with them being faith schools, and neither does the fact that they supposedly get better grades.

    (Original post by loki276)
    also if there are loopholes they must be closed than instead of removing funding
    Loopholes or not, they are still allowed to choose pupils of their religion over others.

    (Original post by loki276)
    Most faith schools that I know of are only partly funded by the government and seeing as the parents of the children are paying taxes as well why should the children not get free education as well
    Maybe it's different in England, but in Scotland there are no "voluntary funded" schools, all state schools rely 100% on government funding.

    Also, in Scotland the only religious state schools we have are Catholic. So if you're Jewish, or Muslim, Protestant, whatever, we don't have the option of a state-funded school which caters for our religion.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yvaiine)
    I'm sorry, but you just contradicted yourself in your first sentance.
    Multicultural INCLUDES all religions. So, you take away the religious school's funding, and the school shuts down, creating a less multicultural society.
    Hey, we've got the same signature! :five:

    Anyway... faith schools don't create a multicultural environment for the children who attend them. They encourage segregation. Without religious state schools, there would still be private faith schools, and people would still be free to practice religion outside of their education, which is what most of us manage to do anyway. Having schools with pupils of many different religions and backgrounds creates a more multicultural society.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MaceyThe)
    I said "Islam" as in the ideology, not "muslims" as individuals.

    "Almost as much as Islam hates me," and "almost as much a Muslim hates me" and are two different things. The first is an ideology, and the second an individual with their own likes/dislikes and character.:rolleyes:

    But anyway, you're a bad Muslim then - if you followed your faith strictly, you'd only be friends with other Muslims. The Qur'an instructs muslims NOT to take the Jews and the Christians for friends, and calls un-believers like myself "the vilest of animals" and "losers.":rolleyes:
    Sort of stinks doesn't it? A faith trying to dictate who you can and can't be friends with??? I used to do all the religion stuff, until I realized I was breaking my faith all the time, and kicked it in to touch.

    Why don't you do the same?
    The Quran only advices to not be allied with them, it never forbids
    also allied as in countries not friends
    I have friends that are atheist's and religous as well as do most Muslims both in the present and in the past
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by moregano)
    What? That doesn't make any sense. They don't have "crap quality of teaching", well obviously some do and some don't, but that has nothing to do with them being faith schools, and neither does the fact that they supposedly get better grades.


    Loopholes or not, they are still allowed to choose pupils of their religion over others.


    Maybe it's different in England, but in Scotland there are no "voluntary funded" schools, all state schools rely 100% on government funding.

    Also, in Scotland the only religious state schools we have are Catholic. So if you're Jewish, or Muslim, Protestant, whatever, we don't have the option of a state-funded school which caters for our religion.
    What I am trying to say is that even though they get better grades it doesn't have anything to do with the fact with whether they have better quality of teaching or not, it depends on the type of students they take in

    They are not allowed to discriminate on religion, if you feel you have been unfairly discrimnated take them to court
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    Why? They seem to work fine for university?
    because if the parent doesn't get the grant then the child wont get any education
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by loki276)
    because if the parent doesn't get the grant then the child wont get any education
    The only reason the parent wouldn't get a grant would be because the parent is rich enough to pay for the school themselves.

    There'd be no question of a child getting no education, because up until the age of 16 it is a legal requirement. The parent is obliged to pay to send their child to school, or seek funding from the government if they fall below a particular income bracket.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    I am a Roman Catholic. I went to a state funded, Roman Catholic secondary and primary school. The two schools achieved brilliant things within the community, cutting racial and religious tensions in an area with a reputation for racial and religious violence. Yet this is somehow a waste of taxpayer's money, because it calls itself a Catholic school and ensures everyone does an RS GCSE?

    It's so selfish, you basically say that 'because I can't have, everyone shouldn't have'. If the government only spent money that was accessable and useful for everyone, the government would spend no money.

    People are entitled to believe what they want. Catholic schools state that what they say is a religious belief. Any Catholic child would hear this in church. Any non Catholic child wouldn't believe it, because they are not Catholic.

    (Original post by drukarale)
    You don't deserve an unfair advantage due to your beliefs.

    You don't deserve an unfair advantage due to your parents' salaries.

    You don't deserve an unfair advantage due to your postcode.
    Rich people would just get their children tutors. It's not an unfair advantage, it's perfectly fair. YOu are taught the same knowledge for the exam, using librarys you have access to the same books. People will always have advantages over you. That's just how the world is.

    Parents have an inalienable right to educate their children how they want. Private schools are not just about passing exams (well real private schools aren't). It's about a certain type of education, and I respect fully the right of parents to pay for it.

    I don't want the government monopolizing the curriculum, who knows what crazy things kids might learn.

    Life is full of unfair advantages, grow up.
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    The only reason the parent wouldn't get a grant would be because the parent is rich enough to pay for the school themselves.

    There'd be no question of a child getting no education, because up until the age of 16 it is a legal requirement. The parent is obliged to pay to send their child to school, or seek funding from the government if they fall below a particular income bracket.
    So if the parent is refusing to pay for a child's education or cant afford to pay for it but earns £60,000+ than the child should be without education?
 
 
 
Poll
Cats or dogs?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.