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    What happens when you have to body scan a child? Technically, it is child pornography.

    And if a young couple have to go through the legal procees after getting pictures of their child developed in the bath, what would this be classed as? After all, you would have security officials looking at a naked child.
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    People seem to forget that these machines aren't even proven to be completely effective. One guy some time back came on the BBC and clearly said that it isn't beyond terrorists to get past these if they wanted to.

    Imagine that this does turn out to be the case and someone slips past after having been scanned, what would the government do then, make physical all body viewing compulsory?
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    (Original post by Straightpath)
    People seem to forget that these machines aren't even proven to be completely effective. One guy some time back came on the BBC and clearly said that it isn't beyond terrorists to get past these if they wanted to.

    Imagine that this does turn out to be the case and someone slips past after having been scanned, what would the government do then, make physical all body viewing compulsory?
    Exactly.

    It's a half way measure, they know it sucks, but if the government can push it through people will get used to it... leaving them free to move on to whatever else.
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    (Original post by Itchynscratchy)
    I would imagine it would be medical physicists, just like they would in a hospital. It would not be difficult to measure the radiation output of the machine.
    Ok, so every single machine, before being brought to the airport, should be first analysed and receive an approval from an independent body. And finger crosses that no corruption is involved.

    But even if you find an article saying that those machine are safe - it's just what the producers said it.

    Even if someone would analyse them, who guarantees you that the machine used in the airport is not simply malfunctioning and emitting a completely different deal of radiations/whatever they are.


    And why should I just risk my health, btw?
    I fly often to and from Europe. Why should I be forced to undergo a treatment that nobody can guarantee safe FOR ABSOLUTELY NO REASON AT ALL.


    You know how many terrorist attacks have been made on planes flying within Europe, in the last 20 years?

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    you know how many people have been killed by terrorist bombing EU planes?

    0



    And here people are talking as if we got bombed once a week.


    You don't believe that those machines may be harmful.
    I don't believe in terrorism.
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    Wouldn't it be more wise if only blacks and muslims are scanned?
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    (Original post by Frieza)
    Ok, so every single machine, before being brought to the airport, should be first analysed and receive an approval from an independent body. And finger crosses that no corruption is involved.
    why on earth would anyone in their right mind intentionally mess up the QA test? take off the tin foil hat

    But even if you find an article saying that those machine are safe - it's just what the producers said it.
    No, because you can measure the radiation output and hence declare it safe. You don't just take the manufacturers word, you measure it!

    Even if someone would analyse them, who guarantees you that the machine used in the airport is not simply malfunctioning and emitting a completely different deal of radiations/whatever they are.
    ''radiations/whatever they are''? Do you have any idea about what you are talking about at all?

    Assuming it works the same as in hospitals, the machines will be tested regularly to ensure they are calibrated properly

    And why should I just risk my health, btw?
    I fly often to and from Europe. Why should I be forced to undergo a treatment that nobody can guarantee safe FOR ABSOLUTELY NO REASON AT ALL.
    You are not risking your health, for the third time in this thread the dose received from one scan is 20 times less than the dose you recieve during a regular day. It's the equivalent of 3 minutes flight, so if you fly often the actual act of flying is far more dangerous to your health.



    You know how many terrorist attacks have been made on planes flying within Europe, in the last 20 years?

    0

    you know how many people have been killed by terrorist bombing EU planes?

    0



    And here people are talking as if we got bombed once a week.


    You don't believe that those machines may be harmful.
    I don't believe in terrorism.
    I have never argued whether or not they are a necessity, I am just saying the histeria about the dose is total nonsense. It's just another panic by people who have no knowledge of science at all.
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    If it reduces the risk of me being blown up on a flight, then I'm cool with it.
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    (Original post by shark67)
    Wouldn't it be more wise if only blacks and muslims are scanned?
    That's what is going to happen anyway because they don't have the capacity to scan everyone in a timely fashion.
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    (Original post by Itchynscratchy)
    why on earth would anyone in their right mind intentionally mess up the QA test? take off the tin foil hat
    Because each machine cost more than 1 million each?
    Any idea of how much money someone is making?


    (Original post by Itchynscratchy)
    No, because you can measure the radiation output and hence declare it safe. You don't just take the manufacturers word, you measure it!
    You mean that you shouldn't, but in actual fact, they did take the manufacturers word.


    (Original post by Itchynscratchy)
    ''radiations/whatever they are''? Do you have any idea about what you are talking about at all?
    This has already been posted:
    http://www.naturalnews.com/027913_fu...nners_DNA.html


    (Original post by Itchynscratchy)
    Assuming it works the same as in hospitals, the machines will be tested regularly to ensure they are calibrated properly
    Oh, that's odd. This is the first time I hear that the machine will be tested and checked regularly by some independent authority.



    (Original post by Itchynscratchy)
    You are not risking your health, for the third time in this thread the dose received from one scan is 20 times less than the dose you recieve during a regular day. It's the equivalent of 3 minutes flight, so if you fly often the actual act of flying is far more dangerous to your health.
    Dose of terahertz photons?
    There are 2 different technologies, so it's not so as easy as you try to make it. The long-term health risks are completely unknown to the scientific community.
    And of course, nothing guarantees that the machine malfunctions and starts shooting x times the radiations that is supposed to.




    But please, try to see the discussion from my point of view.
    I don't know if those machine are harmful, or can be harmful, perhaps in the long run - or not. In fact, nobody knows.
    So, I am arguing how a thing that is not proven safe should not be enforced, expecially because there are no reasons at all.

    But on the other hand, there's a user on TSR that apparently knows, somehow, that these machines are completely safe.
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    (Original post by kjc_us)
    If it reduces the risk of me being blown up on a flight, then I'm cool with it.
    And just out of curiousity, could you quantify the risk of "being blown up" ?
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    I don't mind if they take a picture of me. My body is akin to that of a greek god. Infact, if they took a pic I would like a copy to put on facebook.
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    (Original post by Frieza)
    This has already been posted:
    http://www.naturalnews.com/027913_fu...nners_DNA.html


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    Tell you what, if you don't like it, don't fly. You effectively get given your choice as to whether or not you want to participate when you book your flight.
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    (Original post by Frieza)
    Because each machine cost more than 1 million each?
    Any idea of how much money someone is making?
    They will be checked multiple times, by different people who are nothing to do with the company involved

    You mean that you shouldn't, but in actual fact, they did take the manufacturers word.
    No they didn't, an independent person will measure the radiation output they don't just read the manual and assume it's true. an independent person does an experiment to check

    pseudo-scientific nonsense journalism from a website with an obvious extreme bias. I have already read the article that supposedly shows this phenomenon and said earlier that they also say that the effect is only noticeable after exposures of 6 hours!

    Scares like this are whipped up by the media all the time to scare people who don't know any better (see the MMR scare for a better example)

    Oh, that's odd. This is the first time I hear that the machine will be tested and checked regularly by some independent authority.
    Of course they will be. The International Radiation Regulations act 1999 forces them to. It's in government legislation.


    Dose of terahertz photons?
    There are 2 different technologies, so it's not so as easy as you try to make it. The long-term health risks are completely unknown to the scientific community.
    And of course, nothing guarantees that the machine malfunctions and starts shooting x times the radiations that is supposed to.
    It's not unknown at all, the output is well known. It has been tested, it will be tested. 1 paper said there might be a chance of harm if you are in there for hours at once and idiot websites like the one you have quoted jumped on that to whip up a storm that you are falling for.

    But please, try to see the discussion from my point of view.
    I don't know if those machine are harmful, or can be harmful, perhaps in the long run - or not. In fact, nobody knows.
    So, I am arguing how a thing that is not proven safe should not be enforced, expecially because there are no reasons at all.

    But on the other hand, there's a user on TSR that apparently knows, somehow, that these machines are completely safe.
    I study medical physics, and you (presumably) don't. That puts me at a better chance of understanding the risks than someone who has read a load of media scaremongering.
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    P.s.

    WRT T-Rays.


    THIS is where they got their info from.

    Read it.

    Spoiler:
    Show
    Great things are expected of terahertz waves, the radiation that fills the slot in the electromagnetic spectrum between microwaves and the infrared. Terahertz waves pass through non-conducting materials such as clothes , paper, wood and brick and so cameras sensitive to them can peer inside envelopes, into living rooms and "frisk" people at distance.

    The way terahertz waves are absorbed and emitted can also be used to determine the chemical composition of a material. And even though they don't travel far inside the body, there is great hope that the waves can be used to spot tumours near the surface of the skin.

    With all that potential, it's no wonder that research on terahertz waves has exploded in the last ten years or so.

    But what of the health effects of terahertz waves? At first glance, it's easy to dismiss any notion that they can be damaging. Terahertz photons are not energetic enough to break chemical bonds or ionise atoms or molecules, the chief reasons why higher energy photons such as x-rays and UV rays are so bad for us. But could there be another mechanism at work?

    The evidence that terahertz radiation damages biological systems is mixed. "Some studies reported significant genetic damage while others, although similar, showed none," say Boian Alexandrov at the Center for Nonlinear Studies at Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico and a few buddies. Now these guys think they know why.

    Alexandrov and co have created a model to investigate how THz fields interact with double-stranded DNA and what they've found is remarkable. They say that although the forces generated are tiny, resonant effects allow THz waves to unzip double-stranded DNA, creating bubbles in the double strand that could significantly interfere with processes such as gene expression and DNA replication. That's a jaw dropping conclusion.

    And it also explains why the evidence has been so hard to garner. Ordinary resonant effects are not powerful enough to do do this kind of damage but nonlinear resonances can. These nonlinear instabilities are much less likely to form which explains why the character of THz genotoxic
    effects are probabilistic rather than deterministic, say the team.

    This should set the cat among the pigeons. Of course, terahertz waves are a natural part of environment, just like visible and infrared light. But a new generation of cameras are set to appear that not only record terahertz waves but also bombard us with them. And if our exposure is set to increase, the question that urgently needs answering is what level of terahertz exposure is safe.





    In other words:


    We have a theory which is based on a computer model. We have no information beyond that, we have no solid proof.

    Oh, and btw - you create OMGZ TETRUHURTZ RADIASHUN when you unpeel tape. Might wanna stop doing that.
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    I'd like to live in a world where we don't have to use body scanners, though previously being a major advocate of the privacy campaigners I now don't see so much of a problem with it. The image is hardly revealing and as long as you have no contraband you should suffer no problem, its no different really from being frisked if you set off a metal detector.
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    for the 'selection' of people to be fair they need to say someting like scan every 100th person (interval sampling) for example, rather than just picking people from the crowd, that way they cant be accused of discrimination or targeting certain people or anything, i dont like the idea of them pointing a finger at people in a crowd and selecting them this way.... wether they claim its random or not and making people do it, they need to make sure it is completely random and that is not done by just picking people out of a crowd....or do a lottery type thing so a computer generates random numbers (random sampling if i remember my statistcis lesson right *puts on boffin cap*) so person number 56, 112, 204 etc.... that goes through security is scanned
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    (Original post by jordan200888)
    for the 'selection' of people to be fair they need to say someting like scan every 100th person (interval sampling) for example, rather than just picking people from the crowd, that way they cant be accused of discrimination or targeting certain people or anything, i dont like the idea of them pointing a finger at people in a crowd and selecting them this way.... wether they claim its random or not and making people do it, they need to make sure it is completely random and that is not done by just picking people out of a crowd....or do a lottery type thing so a computer generates random numbers (random sampling if i remember my statistcis lesson right *puts on boffin cap*) so person number 56, 112, 204 etc.... that goes through security is scanned

    + Opt in pretty please:yep:


    Like I've said before, I've had enthusiastic frisks before....TOO enthusiastic.....I'd much rather a scan.
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    (Original post by HDS)
    + Opt in pretty please:yep:


    Like I've said before, I've had enthusiastic frisks before....TOO enthusiastic.....I'd much rather a scan.
    You should do what I do.

    Ask to be searched before they have the opportunity to ask you.

    I never get searched. I just act too excited about the whole experience. :yep:
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    What a wonderful read this was

    Personally I want to travel safely. If that now means metal detectors at tube stations and scanners at airports i don't care because Ive got nothing to hide. Unfortunatly because of a tiny number of nutters who believe we're all evil westerners who need slaughtered, this is what has to happen. Flying isn't a right it's a privilege. If you don't like their security policies, don't do it. As an added bonus you can say you're saving the planet too.
 
 
 
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