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Why are people in this country so deluded about healthcare? watch

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    (Original post by AnonymousPenguin)
    The UK actually spends a smaller percentage of the GDP on health care then France, Germany or Austria. France supposedly has the best health care in Europe at the moment.
    France is also not like the NHS, their healthcare is based on national insurance.

    The NHS spends less money per person, and is Free @ Point of Access for EVERYONE in the Country.
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    (Original post by elandar)
    Germany would be a perfect example of a system that is just as effective as the NHS without being an economic black hole that swallows billions and billions of pounds, based on the idea that "the NHS is unique, it requires this much money as it gives us something that other countries dont have".
    That must be why Germany was 7 places behind the UK in the world healthcare system rankings? Yah.
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    what people tend to do is blame the system all the time, its also partly the populations fault for overeating, binge drinking, and smoking like nutters. For example, have a trip down A&E on a friday/saturday night in your local hospital and think about a millions/billions of pounds a year it costs, then there goes the crime and social problems. Its not just a failing system, its also caused by social problems.
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    The NHS is awful for the elderly as they only have a set budget. They don't treat prostate cancer, and private here is more expensive than subsidised healthcare in America.
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    (Original post by Logan)
    what people tend to do is blame the system all the time, its also partly the populations fault for overeating, binge drinking, and smoking like nutters. For example, have a trip down A&E on a friday/saturday night in your local hospital and think about a millions/billions of pounds a year it costs, then there goes the crime and social problems. Its not just a failing system, its also caused by social problems.
    Much agreed - I think that could be said about pretty much all the industrialized countries! If you look at many "3rd world" countries, people live longer due to more natural foods/less processed and smaller diet, HOWEVER, the standard of living cannot compare to other "advanced" countries.
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    (Original post by jacketpotato)
    It simply isn't true that the middle classes are now using private healthcare en-masse. According to wikipedia, 8% of the U.K. population have private health insurance. And even if you do have private healthcare, you'll end up in the NHS half the time anyway. Major operations, most specialist things and A&E are all NHS - if you have a serious complication in a BUPA hospital, you can expect to be rushed to an NHS one!

    You'll also note that costs in the U.S. are completely out of control. Look at public spending on that graph in the U.S. compared to the U.K. The U.S. central government spends only a tiny bit less on medicare and mediaid than we do on our entire NHS.
    I mean the m/c would use private care under a private healthcare model that I'd support, with subsidies for the w/c.

    And I know the American system is worse than ours, that's why I don't condone or support it.
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    (Original post by folde)
    The NHS is awful for the elderly as they only have a set budget. They don't treat prostate cancer, and private here is more expensive than subsidised healthcare in America.
    I don't think the NHS does have set budgets for the elderly - NHS funding goes to hospitals and is split between departments as they see fit. Not many hospitals have 'elderly depts' - medicine for the elderly wards, yes, but the people on here are seen by cardiologists, resp drs, bowel surgeons or whoever is best to treat their ongoing problem. The staff on elderly wards permanently, such as nurses, OTs etc are paid in the same way all others are

    They don't always treat prostate cancer in any country as 'watchful waiting' has been proven to be the best option in early/indolent disease due to its low mortality rates and the high morbidity/mortality arising from complications of treating it.

    Of course it is - 'subsidised' is the clue there. Private will be more expensive as the government only funds the NHS, if you choose to opt out then you should expect to pay more :confused:



    I don't think people are deluded really, the faults of the NHS are well publicised and yet it remains a popular system, particularly in emergencies as the drs aren't ringing up your bank/insurance company before starting critical care. As (correct me if wrong) the original universal healthcare system I think it works well and it is a concept to be proud of although there is room for improvement if it is to provide healthcare equivalent to that which others pay for. I believe we do get a better deal overall though as most receive top quality care that they couldn't afford otherwise.
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    (Original post by elandar)
    Why do we constantly have this belief that the NHS is some kind of "unique" system that no one else has, and that no other countries help poor people when it comes to healthcare.
    Does no one in the UK realise that other countries in the world have healthcare systems that do everything the NHS does and cost about half as much to run?

    Is it just me or do we just compare ourselves to the USA when it comes to this and just ignore every other country inbetween?
    1) People don't. They think every industrialised nation barring the US has UHC.
    2) I assume you are going to bring up Singapore. Singapore is a very rich microstate which live other countries in the WHO rankings tended to do well. Also Singapore has much younger population, it's easy to spend little on healthcare when you have a very young population who are unlikely to use it. Also, the Singaporean system is very poor at controlling costs something the NHS does very well.
    3) A lot of the other European countries spend way more than the UK does.
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    (Original post by elandar)
    Is it just me or do we just compare ourselves to the USA when it comes to this and just ignore every other country inbetween?
    Well we have to have some kind of comeback when they ***** about how they "saved our asses" in the war.
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    (Original post by vas876)
    France is also not like the NHS, their healthcare is based on national insurance.

    The NHS spends less money per person, and is Free @ Point of Access for EVERYONE in the Country.
    I wasn't saying the NHS is bad - just the opposite, I think they do great with the amount of funding they get for the amount of care they provide. However, you can't expect to top health-care quality charts with that much money spent per person, hence comparisons to Germany and France are rather unfair.

    The point that national insurance systems do not provide health care for everyone isn't true though. I come from a country with one and everyone is covered, there's just more paperwork.
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    NHS is good but it needs cutbacks in some places to invest in research to find better ways of treating people instead of relying on american industries who charge too much for medicines
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    (Original post by flmedicine20)
    Much agreed - I think that could be said about pretty much all the industrialized countries! If you look at many "3rd world" countries, people live longer due to more natural foods/less processed and smaller diet, HOWEVER, the standard of living cannot compare to other "advanced" countries.
    Uk has one of the highest life expectancies?
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    (Original post by loki276)
    NHS is good but it needs cutbacks in some places to invest in research to find better ways of treating people instead of relying on american industries who charge too much for medicines
    You mean like GSK and Astrazeneca?
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    (Original post by AnonymousPenguin)
    The UK actually spends a smaller percentage of the GDP on health care then France, Germany or Austria. France supposedly has the best health care in *Europe* at the moment.
    *The World*
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    (Original post by Quady)
    You mean like GSK and Astrazeneca?
    I dont know the name of the companies but I do remember something about NHS being ripped off by american pharmaceutical companies
    Also isn't gsk british?
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    (Original post by loki276)
    I dont know the name of the companies but I do remember something about NHS being ripped off by american pharmaceutical companies
    Also isn't gsk british?
    Yeah they both are.

    So the NHS would do the R&D... who would then actually manufacture the drugs?
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    I have one issue with the NHS. Why are there so many employees of the NHS who arent doctors or nurses. Thats the only major fault, that there are too many administrators. Aprst from that, i think its pretty good. Maybe not the best, but definetly up there.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Yeah they both are.

    So the NHS would do the R&D... who would then actually manufacture the drugs?
    The companies obviously but they wont have a patent and NHS can choose which one to use
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    (Original post by loki276)
    The companies obviously but they wont have a patent and NHS can choose which one to use
    So the NHS would pay for the expensive part then pay a premium for manufacture.

    And you realise its a long term plan since it takes 15-25 years to get something from stating research to market. Thats when you have the researchers etc.
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    (Original post by AnonymousPenguin)
    The UK actually spends a smaller percentage of the GDP on health care then France, Germany or Austria. France supposedly has the best health care in Europe at the moment.
    I thought the Swedish had the best healthcare?
 
 
 
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