Turn on thread page Beta

Had an abortion - boyfriend found out! watch

    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bslforever)
    neither is it for a man, but that didn't stop you quoting it now did it?
    actually it is 100% for the man
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    I sneak up while you're asleep, you're pregnant, I inject you with something to abort your child that you're unaware of. Am I right to do so because you don't know I've done it even though you'd like a child?
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by samba)
    The only harm it causes is terminating the baby. Just like an abortion. (ok, imagine it doesnt hurt for a few moments)
    You can't create an imaginary scenario that wouldn't exist! And even so, no that is not acceptable because it's not his body so he can't harm it.
    Offline

    3
    (Original post by Aeolus)
    So when does it cease to become a growth? Surely if you know enough to label it such you know when to stop labeling it?


    As for my stance on abortion. I made it pretty clear in this tiring thread. http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...5#post23378845
    When it becomes sentient. We cannot say with certainty at what point that is, but for a significant amount of time after conception we can conclude that it hasn't reached it yet because the brain has not developed, and science has fairly conclusively linked that to sentience even if we're not sure exactly how it works.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sophistress)
    Legally nothing is insignificant but for the purpose of this thread bringing up obscure legal precedents and other countries' laws is a bit of a red herring. I mean, what relevance does any of that have to this thread? How's it going to help the OP? If you can tell me that then, and only then, will I be impressed.
    The majority of the thread insignificant to the OP to be honest; this is a conceptual issue regarding male and female rights to abortion and babies in general (The woman gets to make a mistake, the man does not, thats not equality)

    Some major issues to address ARE legal; the status of a fetus, whether it's a privacy or discrimination issue, etc. And ultimately, this has to be solved through legislature, because otherwise it'll be a nightmare.

    Currently however, it's purely academic. And pretty interesting
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BrightGirl)
    You can't create an imaginary scenario that wouldn't exist! And even so, no that is not acceptable because it's not his body so he can't harm it.
    But hes not harming her body, he's harming this baby, which according to you she shouldnt be that bothered about.

    You can by the way; it's called modelling!
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bslforever)
    The only reason that you have rights now is because someone didnt kill you when you were a vulnerable foetus. And my point referred to your stupid statement about "if we were aborted we wouldnt care as we wouldnt have known".

    The morning after pill is slightly more natural, as implantation of a fertilised egg is a very natural process and does not always occur in nature itself.
    :confused: That doesn't make sense. You're still preventing the potential human life from forming.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Who cares anyway? The OP hasn't broken the law. How about discussing breaking and entering or criminal damage? Not hot button enough?
    Offline

    3
    (Original post by samba)
    But hes not harming her body, he's harming this baby, which according to you she shouldnt be that bothered about.

    You can by the way; it's called modelling!
    I see no way to abort a foetus without either forcing the woman to take drugs or performing some sort of invasive procedure, both of which violate her bodily autonomy and would be criminal without consent.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by samba)
    The majority of the thread insignificant to the OP to be honest; this is a conceptual issue regarding male and female rights to abortion and babies in general (The woman gets to make a mistake, the man does not, thats not equality)

    Some major issues to address ARE legal; the status of a fetus, whether it's a privacy or discrimination issue, etc. And ultimately, this has to be solved through legislature, because otherwise it'll be a nightmare.

    Currently however, it's purely academic. And pretty interesting
    I agree that it is interesting, but inappropriate for a thread asking for advice in H&R (although I agree that I've probably crossed the line too).
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by samba)
    But hes not harming her body, he's harming this baby, which according to you she shouldnt be that bothered about.

    You can by the way; it's called modelling!
    It's not a baby and it's attached to the inside of her. Let's agree to disagree...

    And no you can't model a completely unrealistic, impossible situation which would never exist, because then the argument is pointless.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tinktinktinkerbell)
    actually it is 100% for the man
    Its really not im afraid.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BrightGirl)
    It's not a baby and it's attached to the inside of her. Let's agree to disagree...
    Im not sure im following you there. A baby at full term is attatched to the mother and entirely dependant on her. Is it therefore not a baby...?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Imagine if the male was able to automatically cause an abortion to happen to the baby without consulting his girlfriend. I wonder would all the females on this thread be quite as supportive of one of the parents aborting the child without consulting the other.
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bslforever)
    I used perfect use rates. I would not be surprised if my stats were off - i am notoriously terrible at stats. So what conclusion should you draw from the 97% and 99% that i mentionned?
    Firstly I'd use typical use rates and then I'd realise that it's not per time you have sex, it's per year.

    85% (condoms) 92% (pill) together would = about 99%. Per year.

    Say a woman was fertile and sexually active for 33 years of her life (to make the numbers easier). 1 woman using both these methods for 33 years probably wouldn't have an accidental pregnancy. But out of 3 women, one of them probably will over her lifetime. That's not that uncommon. It has to happen to some people, otherwise it'd be 100%.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Bslforever)
    Its really not im afraid.


    yes ive just looked and it really isnt, damn the stupid person on here who the other day told me it was :rolleyes:


    so, the only two ways of 100% avoiding pregnancy are

    not to have sex
    up the bum

    lol
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BrightGirl)
    :confused: That doesn't make sense. You're still preventing the potential human life from forming.
    I would view that more as a use of contraception. It puts the womans body in an entirely natural state at which she will not be able to conceive - exactly like the pill does.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by nolongerhearthemusic)
    Firstly I'd use typical use rates and then I'd realise that it's not per time you have sex, it's per year.

    85% (condoms) 92% (pill) together would = about 99%. Per year.

    Say a woman was fertile and sexually active for 33 years of her life (to make the numbers easier). 1 woman using both these methods for 33 years probably wouldn't have an accidental pregnancy. But out of 3 women, one of them probably will over her lifetime. That's not that uncommon. It has to happen to some people, otherwise it'd be 100%.
    Wow, i do apologise. Damn PSE teachers lied to me my whole life
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by BrightGirl)
    It's not a baby and it's attached to the inside of her. Let's agree to disagree...

    And no you can't model a completely unrealistic, impossible situation which would never exist, because then the argument is pointless.
    Better example then: What if he slipped her a pill that aborted the baby?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sophistress)
    Hi Iota. First of all, I speak of all teenagers in a condescending manner, not just the male ones (see previous posts as evidence of this). Secondly, as I did say earlier, I am not unsympathetic to a man in this situation. My comment was more referring to some the juvenile commentary by clearly young boys in this thread, not the more well-reasoned posts by, for e.g. WelshBluebird who I happily entered into an adult discussion with. To be fair, the most ridiculous post was written by a female and I did call her out too.

    To clarify, I don't think any girl has a obligation to tell a guy that she is pregnant with his child. If he is a good guy and she wants to tell him then that is something else entirely. I'm not a "straw feminist" (what's that anyway?) but I am a strictly practical.
    Ah, okay. It sounded like it was directed at boys specifically in context. I can't find offhand where you said that you were sympathetic to the man in question, but it wasn't that obvious to me.

    I think the reason that it's considered an obligation is simply because it's a social norm. This can be considered to be similar to monogamy. In the UK and the USA, as well as most countries that come to mind, it is normal practice to have only one partner, and people with multiple partners are looked down upon. For this reason, a man or woman getting into a relationship will reasonably assume that they are their partner's only boyfriend or girlfriend. For this not to be the case is considered to be lying by omission, which it wouldn't be if this were to take place in a culture where polygamy was seen as acceptable and normal.

    This issue is much the same, in that it is seen as deceptive not to tell your boyfriend or husband about an abortion simply because it isn't "the done thing". For a woman to have an abortion without even telling the husband makes the man feel like they have little decision making power in the relationship as a whole, and that they can't trust their girlfriend or wife not to keep other things from them for no good reason. This is IMO the case with this issue, since while there is no fundamental scientific reason for telling the partner, there is usually no valid reason - scientific or moral - not to tell them. Exceptions can and should be made when the partner is extremely controlling, violent or something similar, which sounds like it may be the case here; obviously he would react emotionally to this news, but his apparent history of controlling tendencies also suggests some underlying problems. I don't think the OP has acted in a way that can be considered at all right (for example, unashamedly leading the man on for 5 years, and arguably maintaining the relationship in the first place in the face of very blatant conflicts of interests), but it's possible that the man could have used the baby to create extra pressure to further his aims within the relationship, or simply as more control leverage.

    (And for reference, "straw feminist" is a term used to describe self-proclaimed feminists whose belief actually involves placing women in a position of extreme or complete superiority -- another term I've heard used to apply to such people is "feminazi".)
 
 
 
Turn on thread page Beta
TSR Support Team

We have a brilliant team of more than 60 Support Team members looking after discussions on The Student Room, helping to make it a fun, safe and useful place to hang out.

Updated: February 4, 2010
Poll
Which accompaniment is best?

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.