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Bright children 'being held back' at school watch

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    Bright schoolchildren are being failed by Labour as the education system increasingly places social mobility above academic excellence, it has been claimed.

    Schools are often more focused on “holding back” the most able pupils to allow others to catch-up, said Prof Deborah Eyre, former head of the Government’s National Academy for Gifted and Talented Youth.
    She said the Government’s 13-year policy towards bright children had been “inconsistent and incoherent”.

    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/newt...newthread&f=60


    I would agree with this. During the early years at secondary school, I was very good at maths. However, come year nine my love for maths disappeared. The brighter maths students were just left in a corner of the room to do nothing whilst the less able students receive all the help - Well that is assuming the teacher isn't shouting at students for climbing out of windows, throwing chairs across the room and generally acting like a band of brainless baboons...

    So, what do you think?
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    can't we have specialist schools for people with high aptitude? Nah maybe not, due to political incorrectness the government will vote against it for being descriminatory.
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    i dunno if the government has focused on holding back clever people exactly- maybe just ignored them a little. of course less able pupils need extra help but allowing more able people to get bored is pretty damaging for them and for everyone else. At primary school i got bullied for being clever like so many people do and it taught me to keep quiet in lessons and not show any interest. Grammar schools can have benefits but from my experience they are very unhealthy environments (at least in all girls schools!)
    It seems like the best way to do it would be to open more good grammars so less people went private, but keep half the intake comprehensive and integrate everyone as much as possible. You never learn anything if you are around people who are all the same all of the time
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    I agree, there's not a lot of help for "more able" pupils in secondary schools, but with the stigma at the school I went to that comes with doing well, I'm not sure I would have wanted it

    But hey, still got an offer from oxford, so it can't have held me back that much can it?
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    (Original post by Logan)
    can't we have specialist schools for people with high aptitude? Nah maybe not, due to political incorrectness the government will vote against it for being descriminatory.
    It would be interesting to see what you would say about this if you didn't get into these special schools, even though the schools for everyone else were basically like ******** comprehensives but without the clever people.

    Anyway, yes. It's been fairly obvious, even to me as a child, since I was about six. Gifted and Talented Academy is a load of ******** though; half the people in it from my school I wouldn't trust to change a light bulb.

    But to pin this on "social mobility" is dangerously politically deceptive. Social mobility has barely budged and arguably decreased since Labour have been in power; Labour policy has not promoted social mobility, particularly from the lower social classes (it has been mostly the middle class who have benefited, ironically, particularly in education) whether it was intended to or not and to claim that it has usually has the (often intentional) effect of blackening the whole concept of "social mobility" as some kind of NuLab Neo-Marxist Lefty Liberal Plot To Tax The Daily Mail Readership Out Of Existence. Which it isn't. Because the whole point of promoting social mobility is so that the talented poor can do something with their lives. :ta:
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    I agree there should be more support for bright students, however there just aren't the resources to do it - I think it's more important to focus resources on kids who are struggling. I managed just fine and still achieved highly without any extra support..
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    NAGTY is well known for being crap.

    But yes, I have experienced this. However, if you go to a school where the first principle is to offer education to all, you should expect that the teacher will have to spend more time with less able, and you will be left to do your own thing. But if you're that academically able anyway then you should be fine with the concept of self-study.

    I went through the state school system, and at times it did almost feel like I wasn't welcome for being smart. But in the long run it probably prepared me for university far better than a private education would.
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    Source?

    And why do you have a link to create a new thread in the OP?
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    (Original post by Logan)
    can't we have specialist schools for people with high aptitude? Nah maybe not, due to political incorrectness the government will vote against it for being descriminatory.
    What, you mean grammars?

    Also, I totally agree to the entire thing. They wouldn't let me take GCSE Maths early, I just sat in the corner with my iPod :/ bored to tears.
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    (Original post by Logan)
    can't we have specialist schools for people with high aptitude? Nah maybe not, due to political incorrectness the government will vote against it for being descriminatory.
    This is what I support.
    If not special schools, then a system where bright students can be fast tracked.

    (Original post by blinkbelle)
    I agree there should be more support for bright students, however there just aren't the resources to do it - I think it's more important to focus resources on kids who are struggling. I managed just fine and still achieved highly without any extra support..
    There are the resources though.
    The European Central Bank has estimated that the British Government wastes around £99billion a year. Absolutely billions is wasted in the NHS, tens of billions are wasted in the social security budget...

    Its just so much waste.
    Channel that to education.

    (Original post by paddyman4)
    Source?

    And why do you have a link to create a new thread in the OP?
    Dear Paddyman4,

    We thank you for your feedback. Here at the Teaddict account we like to actively respond to all positive and negative feedback we receive to ensure continued satisfaction with this service.

    The fault that you indicated is a result of complex copy and paste related technical issues.

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    lol
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    (Original post by littleshambles)
    It would be interesting to see what you would say about this if you didn't get into these special schools, even though the schools for everyone else were basically like ******** comprehensives but without the clever people.

    [/b]
    What would you feel if you are the geek of the class and no one hung out with you because you're not cool and you're too bookish? Its a chance fore these people to not just develop themselves academically but also socially.

    The issue here is that comprehensives are ****** not because of the lack of smart people, but the lack of discipline of students and overall a failing school system.

    I don't see why people would be distasteful if they didnt get into these schools when the country's most beloved sport follows exactly this system. If you're not good enough you end up finding other jobs, if you're good enough then you end up signing with a football club.

    Maybe it is true that in british culture, people are jealous rather than appreciative of people that are more successful than them/more talented.
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    I'd have to agree with this, but we're hardly breaking any new ground are we? I thought it was blindingly obvious that there are deep faults in our current educational system, mainly due to ridiculous concepts like "social mobility" being taken to their logical conclusion.

    The funny thing is, bright kids are often held back at state schools because of inherent failures in the system, but rather than targetting these failures, people who go to private school get penalised by "social mobility" measures like a 2-grade bonus for state schooler's university admissions (which is apparently going to be enacted soon), or a 'points' based system where credit is awarded to students purely for going to state school. We need to stop trying to treat the symptoms, and treat the cause instead.
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    In a word, Yes. The league table culture means that if students are capable of achieving a B or an A at GCSE, where is the incentive to push them up to an A or A*? None. If a student is a C/D borderline, then there is every incentive to push them up. If a student has no chance of ever achieving a 'good' GCSE, again there is little incentive.

    The purpose of the EDUCATION system in this country should be just that, to EDUCATE. I fear it has been the purpose of the comprehensive system to promote egalitarianism above education, to the detriment of the many.

    'Muffinz' provides one of undoubtedly millions of anecdotes out there of the experiences of the high-achievers in schools. Why shouldn't their excellence be fostered, encouraged and developed?

    Why let people like 'Muffinz' sit in the corner listening to their iPod because the purpose of the school is not individual excellence but general league table success.

    It is a damning indictment of a government that came to office promising 'Education, Education, Education.'
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    This is just another thing that the state education system has failed at, and a voucher system would excel at.
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    I would agree with this. During the early years at secondary school, I was very good at maths. However, come year nine my love for maths disappeared. The brighter maths students were just left in a corner of the room to do nothing whilst the less able students receive all the help - Well that is assuming the teacher isn't shouting at students for climbing out of windows, throwing chairs across the room and generally acting like a band of brainless baboons...
    I don't understand why apparently bright kids begrudge their less able counterparts receiving help. If you're so clever, do extra work yourself - I thought Tories believed in self-reliance :p:
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    (Original post by Gremlins)
    I don't understand why apparently bright kids begrudge their less able counterparts receiving help. If you're so clever, do extra work yourself - I thought Tories believed in self-reliance :p:
    (I'm not a Tory) - I agree with you. If you're actually smart, surely independent study will only have positive results for you! I certainly didnt begrudge the kids who needed help getting it :confused:
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    (Original post by usernamegoeshere)
    i dunno if the government has focused on holding back clever people exactly- maybe just ignored them a little. of course less able pupils need extra help but allowing more able people to get bored is pretty damaging for them and for everyone else. At primary school i got bullied for being clever like so many people do and it taught me to keep quiet in lessons and not show any interest. Grammar schools can have benefits but from my experience they are very unhealthy environments (at least in all girls schools!)
    It seems like the best way to do it would be to open more good grammars so less people went private, but keep half the intake comprehensive and integrate everyone as much as possible. You never learn anything if you are around people who are all the same all of the time
    I agree with this. Grammar schools, do in theory lessen the gap in aptitude at learning (I wouldn't necessarily consider it intelligence). They don't lessen it through teaching though, rather it is through selection, not that there is much wrong with that. I used to go to a boy's grammar school and lets just say that the testosterone levels probably got too high sometimes. Even at a grammar school, in the first few years I felt that I was being held behind sometimes, though by going to a private primary school I got a considerable head start.
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    Bright schoolchildren are being failed by Labour as the education system increasingly places social mobility above academic excellence, it has been claimed.

    Schools are often more focused on “holding back” the most able pupils to allow others to catch-up, said Prof Deborah Eyre, former head of the Government’s National Academy for Gifted and Talented Youth.
    She said the Government’s 13-year policy towards bright children had been “inconsistent and incoherent”.

    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/newt...newthread&f=60


    I would agree with this. During the early years at secondary school, I was very good at maths. However, come year nine my love for maths disappeared. The brighter maths students were just left in a corner of the room to do nothing whilst the less able students receive all the help - Well that is assuming the teacher isn't shouting at students for climbing out of windows, throwing chairs across the room and generally acting like a band of brainless baboons... So, what do you think?
    I really do believe that the highly able child will thrive regardless of the classroom situation since they have a voracious appetite for knowledge and will seek such knowledge from alternative sources.

    My experience is that the brightest will go beyond the knowledge ceiling that the national curriculum imposes and learn independently whether a teacher is in front of them in a class or not.

    I agree though that the 'moderately bright' might not have the intellectual wherewithal to learn independently, but we should be encouraging them to do so. Spoonfeeding learning is not good for accelerating the 'independent learning' process.

    As for their futures; the fostering of 'independent learning' is an extremely good preparation for university and beyond.
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    (Original post by yawn)
    I really do believe that the highly able child will thrive regardless of the classroom situation since they have a voracious appetite for knowledge and will seek such knowledge from alternative sources.
    Not necessarily true. It is true if they love the subject... But you can be good at a subject without love of it.

    But it is possible - I would not claim to be "uber uber bright" - those genius kids -_- - so have no experience.

    I agree though that the 'moderately bright' might not have the intellectual wherewithal to learn independently, but we should be encouraging them to do so. Spoonfeeding learning is not good for accelerating the 'independent learning' process.
    Very true.
    However, the teacher can provide the structure where the students fill in where need to. I have often found students cannot create structure... however, when given the structure they can do a lot.
    As for their futures; the fostering of 'independent learning' is an extremely good preparation for university and beyond
    That is different than being ignored though...
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    I think most schools have to do what they can within the resources to reach their targets. Schools don't get any more points if pupils pass their GCSEs early so there is no incentive to provide extra resources to teach them.
 
 
 
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