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Spending cuts not tax rises, Treasury officials urge ministers watch

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    Ministers have been warned by Treasury officials that they must cut spending rather than increase taxes to ensure a stronger economic recovery, The Daily Telegraph can disclose

    An internal Treasury paper concluded there was “broad agreement” that “spending restraint is more likely to generate better economic performance than tax increases”.

    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/newt...newthread&f=60

    broad agreement? Of course cutting expenditure is better than raising taxes to generate better economic performance!!!

    I wonder how much our incompetent government will pay though? I seriously doubt they will listen to sense - You cannot keep maintaining or increasing budgets. They must be cut by around £185bn (£178bn including some room for a surplus).

    What annoys me the most is David Cameron (I seriously doubt the Conservative Party as a whole supports these measures) is almost doing the same. Protecting health? One of the largest and most wasteful budgets we have? The NHS needs serious declogging... Is there a Mr Muscle of the healthcare industry?

    and to protect international development over any other budget is just ludicrous. Surely Defence, Universities or Education should be protected if anything else?
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    What annoys me the most is David Cameron (I seriously doubt the Conservative Party as a whole supports these measures) is almost doing the same. Protecting health? One of the largest and most wasteful budgets we have? The NHS needs serious declogging... Is there a Mr Muscle of the healthcare industry?
    It's about time the rich are forced to go private and not freeload. Let's hope Cameron starts talking tough on Middle England and making them stop thinking the State is there to give them free healthcare, free schooling, a state pension, heavily subsidised university education for their kids.

    This socialist oppression is holding Middle England back. In the USA they have proper private medical insurance. If they want their kids to go to university, they pay the rate of the market. State spending has ruined the country and only when we are free from this socialist oppression will things get sorted out and be able to balance the books.

    Then we can cut taxes and the top earners will be able to get richer, so the trickle down effect and the hidden hand of the market will solve all our other problems. In fact maybe it would persuade some of Middle England to work harder so they could break into Upper England.
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    It's about time the rich are forced to go private and not freeload. Let's hope Cameron starts talking tough on Middle England and making them stop thinking the State is there to give them free healthcare, free schooling, a state pension, heavily subsidised university education for their kids.

    This socialist oppression is holding Middle England back. In the USA they have proper private medical insurance. If they want their kids to go to university, they pay the rate of the market. State spending has ruined the country and only when we are free from this socialist oppression will things get sorted out and be able to balance the books.

    Then we can cut taxes and the top earners will be able to get richer, so the trickle down effect and the hidden hand of the market will solve all our other problems. In fact maybe it would persuade some of Middle England to work harder so they could break into Upper England.
    If this ever comes into effect, I'm leaving the country...
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    (Original post by blinkbelle)
    If this ever comes into effect, I'm leaving the country...
    If I had a penny for every time I've heard some idiot try to make a political point with that statement, with absolutely no hope of it actually happening, then I'd have a hell of a lot of pennies.

    It will suffice to say that, if you're one of the people who seek to hold this country back, then your departure would be welcomed by those who believe in sensible, progressive politics.
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    (Original post by blinkbelle)
    If this ever comes into effect, I'm leaving the country...

    I wouldn't leave, but I'd be well up for the inevitable revolution following it...
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    In the USA they have proper private medical insurance. If they want their kids to go to university, they pay the rate of the market.

    Which has led to the most inefficient health system on the planet, that costs so much, yet delivers so little. And god help you if you end up with an incurable condition, as no-one else will, especially not your insurance company.

    As to the US education system, well its great if you are absolutely loaded, or have managed to fight your way through the state school system and are really low income. But it singularly fails to deliver a first class education to those on a middle income, who neither benefit from bursaries, grants and the like, nor earn enough to save up enough money to send their kids to an Ivy League university. So, you get the perverse situation where only the very poor or very rich can really afford to go to the best universities, there really is selection via income rather than academic achievement...
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    (Original post by L i b)
    If I had a penny for every time I've heard some idiot try to make a political point with that statement, with absolutely no hope of it actually happening, then I'd have a hell of a lot of pennies.

    It will suffice to say that, if you're one of the people who seek to hold this country back, then your departure would be welcomed by those who believe in sensible, progressive politics.
    How am I 'holding the country back' by objecting to the claim that we are in a state of 'socialist oppression' and refusing to back a system which will leave all but the rich by the wayside?
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    It's about time the rich are forced to go private and not freeload.
    wtf?

    Freeload? They pay for it...
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    (Original post by L i b)
    If I had a penny for every time I've heard some idiot try to make a political point with that statement, with absolutely no hope of it actually happening, then I'd have a hell of a lot of pennies.
    +1 its another one I'm bored of on here.
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    I'll be leaving as well for a proper free market economy like USA or Japan.

    Thank God there's no government deficits there, in the free world they know how to balance their books.
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    I'll be leaving as well for a proper free market economy like USA or Japan.

    Thank God there's no government deficits there, in the free world they know how to balance their books.
    (I don't think anyone would suggest they are 'proper free market economies)
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    No because they are dominated by monopoly interests
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    It's about time the rich are forced to go private and not freeload.
    wtf?

    Freeload? They pay for it...

    (Magic, you forgot to explain this)
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    It's about time the rich are forced to go private and not freeload. Let's hope Cameron starts talking tough on Middle England and making them stop thinking the State is there to give them free healthcare, free schooling, a state pension, heavily subsidised university education for their kids.

    This socialist oppression is holding Middle England back. In the USA they have proper private medical insurance. If they want their kids to go to university, they pay the rate of the market. State spending has ruined the country and only when we are free from this socialist oppression will things get sorted out and be able to balance the books.

    Then we can cut taxes and the top earners will be able to get richer, so the trickle down effect and the hidden hand of the market will solve all our other problems. In fact maybe it would persuade some of Middle England to work harder so they could break into Upper England.

    The American health care model is not one that anyone should be advocating if they actually want illnesses like cancer to be treated! Not covered by insurance? No treatment for long term illnesses...so when you can't afford the thousands of dollars or the insurance provider refuses to insure your chronically ill daughter, you either pony up the hundreds of thousands of dollars or she dies. Nice system!

    Middle and upper England pay for health 'care' and education via their taxes...neither are free, just free at the point of delivery (other than prescription costs). A large chunk of upper and upper middle England use private schools and have private health cover anyway!
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    It's about time the rich are forced to go private and not freeload. Let's hope Cameron starts talking tough on Middle England and making them stop thinking the State is there to give them free healthcare, free schooling, a state pension, heavily subsidised university education for their kids.
    They are not free loading they pay huge amounts of tax.


    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    I'll be leaving as well for a proper free market economy like USA or Japan.

    Thank God there's no government deficits there, in the free world they know how to balance their books.
    No deficit?
    Obama has been talking about trillion dollar deficits recently.
    America has a huge deficit and have had so for years.
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    No sheet Sherlock
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    ffs guys, Magic is taking the piss out of libertarians, he's being ironic. Isn't it obvious?
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    (Original post by CandyFlipper)
    ffs guys, Magic is taking the piss out of libertarians, he's being ironic. Isn't it obvious?
    It was when I actually read their post.
    (first time I got as far as the second line and had to reply)
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    (Original post by CandyFlipper)
    ffs guys, Magic is taking the piss out of libertarians, he's being ironic. Isn't it obvious?
    Where's a sarcasm detector when you need one :blush:

    Was replying, then I got to the bit where he talked about Japan balancing their books
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    Yes I was just having a bit of fun satirising some of the libertarian arguments, however there is a serious point that I think needs to be discussed, which is that a lot of people who are in favour of austerity measures and slashing down public spending will soon change their tunes when they see who feels the pinch of cuts most, because it will be that section of society which is self-sufficient, pays its share of tax, doesn't ask nor get hand outs, and then finds the few areas where the state does help them are the ones that are cut because they are the softer targets.

    Higher education being a classic case in point. We hear how the NHS is ring fenced, and defence spending on front line staff in Afghanistan is ring fenced, and the budget for Trident is ring fenced, so the things that have to be cut have to be really cut - like HE, which is going to be savaged to a point in which real dramatic effects are being seen.

    HE is a soft target because its seen as something which generally benefits "Middle England", ie subsidised education and interest free loans for people to go to University and benefit by enhanced job prospects. Cut that and you aren't cutting social care or cancer treatment, its one of those which is seen as "well if we have to balance the books go for it, students just get wasted all the time anyway" by people who aren't in HE or don't have kids going into HE.

    So you will get the people who are on salaries like £20000 a year or £30000 a year suddenly needing to find many many thousands of pounds to finance their kids through university education when their kids are going to come out saddled with immense levels of debt which will take years to pay off, and unlike the current system, won't be on an interest free (in real terms) loan basis.

    When public sector spending is slashed, whether it be the Tories or Labour, how much do you bet it won't be the people who scrounge the system that really lose out.....they will be picking up their £60 a week dole cheque same as usual, it won't go up, but I bet any money it won't be cut. There will be more people on teh dole as a lot of people in public sector jobs who work hard for the community and pay their taxes for little reward get cut (it will be those jobs who go, not the wasters at the top who are overpaid and cashing in on hefty pension pots which need financing through council tax increases, because it will be the wasters at the top who have the privilege of deciding on whom the axe will fall). When there's more people on the dole guess who's going to be making up the cost to the public purse through extra taxation....hard working people on reasonable but not excessive wages.

    Whatever your position on how much economic inequality is acceptable/beneficial, the big problem I see in British society today is that there are those at the bottom who drain from the public purse, and those at the top who drain from the public purse, bankers who gamble badly and have to get the taxpayer to bail them out, or high ranking civil servants/MPs/local authority executives who are onto a winner at the taxpayers expense. In the middle is the section of society who actually contributes - and these can be in either the private or public sector. Most people in the private sector aren't privileged enough to have the fallback of the taxpayer to bail them out if they make a hash of their businesses, and most people who are public sector professionals (police, nurses, soldiers, firemen, teachers etc) are paid £20-35k, have to cough up a lot in tax and receive little back from the state.

    When the big austerity measures come in, probably from David Cameron, it is going to be this section of society who feels the pinch from the non-ring fenced cuts, and unfortunately there are many in this category who will support the idea of big cuts to balance the books at this point, without realising it's going to be them on whom the biggest burden (as usual) falls.
 
 
 
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