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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    Your argument now has shifted from a law enforcement issue to a issue of piety/obedience. Sharia law is just that, a law. It needs to be enforced. If with the imposition of Sharia law people would magically become saints then there wouldn't be any punishments with in it. But this isn't human nature. Of course there will be people who will not be happy with it as with every other law in the world but does that mean we should abolish it to pander to that minority? of course not. The people of Aceh elected legislators fulling knowing their election manifesto and their intention to introduce Sharia law.

    http://www1.voanews.com/english/news...-68709782.html
    Yes but the fact that the majority supports a certain agenda does not really legitimize it if it entirely unreasonable (i.e. thoroughly oppressive). That is the whole idea of basic human rights. There's plenty of agendas with public support out there - genocides were committed in Serbia with quite broad public support.
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    (Original post by 9a3iqa)
    Erm yes it was. Its a well known fact Indonesians became Muslims optionally.

    "The spread of Islam was driven by increasing trade links outside of the archipelago; in general, traders and the royalty of major kingdoms were the first to adopt the new religion."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_spr...m_in_Indonesia

    YOU LOSE
    See my last post...YOU LOSE!:p:
    Do you think I didn't check the very same Wikipedia page as you before making my post?:rolleyes: By the way, that Wiki page presents a very sanitized version of events.
    The "conversions" you've quoted were peaceful initially in the 16th century and have been increasingly violent since as I've detailed.

    Just last week (23rd Jan,) 2 churches were burned to the ground by Indonesian Muslims in the district of Padang Lawas, North Sumatra. Funny how the BBC doesn't tell us any of this isn't it....?

    Religion of peace, yeaah.
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    (Original post by Kreuzuerk)
    What does the action of returning rep have to do with the will of God? :curious:
    If God wills I will return the rep. Who knows when we will die, any person on this thread can fall dead right know if God willed. It is actually because of his mercy that he takes care of us and enables some of us to live for a long long time.

    Everything happens with the will of God.

    And btw thanks for asking, and yes I did return the rep
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    (Original post by AnonymousPenguin)
    Yes but the fact that the majority supports a certain agenda does not really legitimize it if it entirely unreasonable (i.e. thoroughly oppressive). That is the whole idea of basic human rights. There's plenty of agendas with public support out there - genocides were committed in Serbia with quite broad public support.
    That's clearly an arbitrary opinion and not held by the residents of Aceh. You need to end this mentality of Western hegemony.
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    (Original post by numb3rb0y)
    Nazi Germany was a Nazi country and the concentration camp guards were upholding Nazi law. I don't see what the problem was.
    touche,

    however, the point the quoted poster was perhaps was trying to make is that they have their customs and laws and we have ours. Is it fair to benchmark acceptable laws based on our countries?

    Your comparison, while perhaps valid is also very much exaggerated. i think there is a difference between the slaughter of 6 million + people and disallowing teenage couples to sit next to each other.
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    That's clearly an arbitrary opinion and not held by the residents of Aceh. You need to end this mentality of Western hegemony.
    Do you then support the genocides done by Milosevic? By extension of your logic my opinion that those people deserved to live is completely arbitrary.
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    (Original post by AnonymousPenguin)
    Do you then support the Serbian genocide? My opinion that those people deserved to live is completely arbitrary.
    That's a crime against humanity. People aren't unjustly killed in Sharia law. They are fully aware of the law and only they are responsible for their actions. In Serbian genocide people were killed for who they are not what they did
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    Show me the evidence for this,even from credible Western sources.
    This is the book I'm working from, there's a copy in my student library:
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Political-Vi...5130952&sr=8-1

    Stacks of information out there on t'interweb though if it interests you, my Islamist chum.:cool:
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    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    Imperfection doesn't mean it's oppressive. I find that British laws are often far from perfect, but at least they aren't oppressive.
    I never said that British laws are oppressive. If anything they are very liberal on a lot of issues (criminals, drugs, etc). The point is Sharia law is perfect as the laws are made by God hence there zero chance for them to be wrong as God does not make mistakes.

    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    No it doesn't.
    If there wasn't as much casual mixing between the sexes as there is currently in the UK, social problems such as teenage preganancies, STDs, number of abortions etc. would reduce. Once you have free mixing with alcohol then the problem just gets worse so you can see why Islam prohibits both of these things.
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    (Original post by MaceyThe)
    This is the book I'm working from, there's a copy in my student library:
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Political-Vi...5130952&sr=8-1

    Stacks of information out there on t'interweb though if it interests you, my Islamist chum.:cool:
    Product Description

    This book analyzes the concurrent trends that since the fall of Suharto in 1998, Indonesia has made a successful democratic transition, but at the same time has been plagued by Islamist terrorism and sectarian violence.
    right.......
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    (Original post by MaceyThe)
    Religion of peace, yeaah.
    I replied to your previous reply too. So technically I win.

    Also this religion of peace thing is beginning to get on my nerves. God taught us Muslims the "eye for an eye" principle. If a country steps on your foot then step back on theirs.

    However our great prophet also taught us to not exceed our limits. If what you posted was true then these people have exceeded their limits and so have disobeyed our prophet.

    About time you learned the difference between Islam and Muslims my friend. You can see Muslims drinking and smoking, it certainly does not mean Islam said to drink and smoke.

    I hope you understand what I mean.
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    (Original post by 9a3iqa)
    The problem with that is in Muslim countries christianity is not banned.
    Are you stupid or selectively ignoring the point I am trying to make? I gave that as a hypothetical situation, you claimed for some strange reason that people couldn't hold opinions about other countries.

    Seeing as you brought it up..In Saudi Christianity is actually banned

    Saudi Arabia' allows Christians to enter the country as temporary workers, but does not allow them to practice their faith.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christi...n_Saudi_Arabia

    Who cares about Britain, the Muslim world has actually been secular until 30 or so years ago, back then if you went to a Muslim city e.g Cairo the girls would not even wear head scarves and the men would not even pray. Islam has made a big come back. Therefore you fail and miserably at that.
    So? It is undergoing a resurgence due to Western interference and the slow advancement of capitalism and other Western ideas permeating the muslim world....I would say such a resurgence was inevitable. It happend in Christianity as well...Christianity fell and then grew again in the late 19th century, before falling again http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_revival. Religious observence falls as GDP increases, Islam in it's current form will not survive Freedom always wins, always...look at the European Catholic church, the Nazis, Communism...things change, people rise up and so forth.
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    (Original post by az1992)
    touche,

    however, the point the quoted poster was perhaps was trying to make is that they have their customs and laws and we have ours. Is it fair to benchmark acceptable laws based on our countries?

    Your comparison, while perhaps valid is also very much exaggerated. i think there is a difference between the slaughter of 6 million + people and disallowing teenage couples to sit next to each other.
    My point is that Aceh, like any state, is not a homogenous group-think where everyone holds the same opinion, so to talk about "their" customs and laws is disingenuous and creates a false portrayal of a consensual society when the very fact that they need enforcers on the ground proves otherwise. Western liberalism largely avoids this problem through reasonable pluralism, but because Sharia is so authoritarian, it practically proves itself that it cannot be consensually applied to all in the fact that it prescribes punishments for transgressors. I'm perfectly happy to see a strict Muslim live as a strict Muslim, I simply oppose a strict Muslim forcing others to live his lifestyle because he has more strict Muslim neighbours than not.
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    For ***** sake, why does every narrow mind northern European want to criticise every other faith and every other culture?? - Think about it. Britain has what now?? Binge drinking, most marriages end in divorce, two unjustified wars, recession - bankers are still being paid **** loads for doing **** ALL. The BNP are winning support for being RACIST NAZI LOVING SCUM and you have the cheek to complain about another nation?? Maybe when we have knife crime and teenage pregnancy under control you can judge another nation. Yet, in the mean time get of your high horse and look at the **** around you before you go off and judge someone else.
    FYI: I say northern European as this whole 'anti - god' attitude is regional this part of the world. GROW UP!
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    Yes and err work on your spelling
    Oh noes :teehee:
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    (Original post by numb3rb0y)

    That being said, to be perfectly honest, I don't see a problem comparing Naziism to Sharia. Not the Holocaust, but Naziism as an ideology is disturbingly similar. They're both authoritarian, they both involve thought crime, they both force anyone living under them to conform to the ideology or suffer horrific penalties, and they both involve a "higher" people (be it Aryans or Muslims).
    FAIL

    You are attempting to umbrella Islam based on its middle eastern interpretation. You will find many other muslim countries do not follow this very hard line interpretation of islam.

    Also to note, Islam is 1400 years old. When christianity was at that age we went around the world forcing native peoples to convert to our religion or we slaughtered them for heresy. We were the divine and one true religion just as some Muslims feel they are today.

    We also burnt "witches" and spent centuries executing those that produced scientific explanations for the world. Tell me that by todays standards this is civilized?

    You will also find that every religion from the jews (chosen ones) to the christians to the muslims think that they are superior to other religions. just some hard line muslim militants choose to distort their own gods message.

    One final correction as well, I am led to believe that Hitler was a Christian and im sure your aware that he killed 6 million people of jewish
    faith. When Al Queda and friends have reached those atrocious figures then start comparing Islam to Nazism!
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    (Original post by S.R91)
    For ***** sake, why does every narrow mind northern European want to criticise every other faith and every other culture?? - Think about it. Britain has what now?? Binge drinking, most marriages end in divorce, two unjustified wars, recession - bankers are still being paid **** loads for doing **** ALL. The BNP are winning support for being RACIST NAZI LOVING SCUM and you have the cheek to complain about another nation?? Maybe when we have knife crime and teenage pregnancy under control you can judge another nation. Yet, in the mean time get of your high horse and look at the **** around you before you go off and judge someone else.
    FYI: I say northern European as this whole 'anti - god' attitude is regional this part of the world. GROW UP!
    I'm not an ethnic North-European
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    (Original post by S.R91)
    For ***** sake, why does every narrow mind northern European want to criticise every other faith and every other culture?? - Think about it. Britain has what now?? Binge drinking, most marriages end in divorce, two unjustified wars, recession - bankers are still being paid **** loads for doing **** ALL. The BNP are winning support for being RACIST NAZI LOVING SCUM and you have the cheek to complain about another nation?? Maybe when we have knife crime and teenage pregnancy under control you can judge another nation. Yet, in the mean time get of your high horse and look at the **** around you before you go off and judge someone else.
    FYI: I say northern European as this whole 'anti - god' attitude is regional this part of the world. GROW UP!
    Unlike the vast majority of Muslim countries, the West does not subjugate women through measures such as legalised martial rape, as we see within Afghanistan for example. Rather it provides freedom for them, with which they are able to do what they like.
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    Whether we view it as right or wrong, it really isn't anything to do with us.

    The typical view of many cultures is that what they believe is right must be definitely right, what they believe is wrong is definitely wrong.

    Now, in the west we believe in freedom - freedom to believe in what we believe, freedom to learn what we want to learn, freedom to live in 'sin' because we are in control of our own lives. That has benefits but also shortfalls - we are just almost blind to them. Kids are bought up playing games that possibly teach them to be violent. Teenagers die from drug use and drinking. People who murder, people who rape - these people get a few years in a (lets face it) pathetic excuse for a prison and then get let out to potentially do it all again.

    Now look at these other cultures. Sharia law is strict, and followers firmly believe that they are following laws created by a god. They get alot less freedom but look at the potential upsides of that, if everyone followed it. Less violence because drinking is illegal and violence can come from drinking. Less deaths of people taking their bodies to the limits with drugs/alcohol. Less crime, simply because the sentences for crimes can be nasty.

    There is no perfect system of law, but there are different systems which have their benefits. Just because we don't consider the downfalls of our own systems, we try and push our lifestyles on other cultures which will always result in conflict - and will always result in us thinking 'what? they can't TOUCH EACH OTHER? HOW DO THEY SCREW?' and them thinking 'WHAT? They let murderers off after a few years of holiday camp... I mean... PRISON!? How do they keep their streets safe?'.

    Of course, I'm talking extremes here. Personally I think that we should leave these cultures to get on with it - a lot of the people under these laws support it.
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    (Original post by 9a3iqa)
    If God wills I will return the rep. Who knows when we will die, any person on this thread can fall dead right know if God willed. It is actually because of his mercy that he takes care of us and enables some of us to live for a long long time.

    Everything happens with the will of God.

    And btw thanks for asking, and yes I did return the rep
    Why does God allow me to live yet I break pretty much every rule in the Qu'ran. Maybe he doesn't exist? :teehee:
 
 
 
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