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    (Original post by Kreuzuerk)
    I expressed no belief in the utter utopia of Western society that you suggest I maintain, rather I am simply saying that conditions such as Anorexia and an interest in celebrity do not rival forcing women to wear head-covering sacks, forcing them to marry aged men, denying them an education, in terms of depravity.
    Nuns cover their hair as do Orthodox Jewish women and you’re assuming that the act of guarding one’s modesty is forced. As for the marrying aged men, it’s not Islamic – yet, I wouldn’t expect you to know the difference.
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    (Original post by numb3rb0y)
    My empathy doesn't cease to function at the UK's borders.
    ................?

    I forget the part where every or even the majority of illegal immigrants are Muslim?
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    (Original post by Casse)
    God entrusted manking to implement his laws throughout history. He instructed Moses (pbuh) and the Children of Israel to implement the laws of the Torah; and he instructed Jesus (pbuh) and the Christians to implement the law of the Bible. These laws are sent down through Prophets and enforced through the hands of men. This is a clear instruction to the Muslims in the Qu'ran and hadiths. What would you God rather do? Come down himself to do it?
    The laws God gave the Jews were only meant to be temporary as far as enforcement went. That was the best they could do at the time. In today's world where we have an eternal sacrifice for our sins (Jesus, if you believe it [obviously you don't though]), there's no longer any need for man to enforce it.

    And no, God need not "come down himself" to enforce it. We die and go to him. Then he enforces it.

    Men and women will always lust after one another. This is part of our biology. Prohibiting unneccessary mixing and banning alcohol goes a long way in preventing this as it prevents the avenues to these problems. If you look at pre-Islamic Arabia, the similarities between the culture then and the culture now in the world is astonishing. Yet these laws managed to prevent all these vices.
    Also look at the difference between sexuality in Europe today and Europe 300 years ago when it was dominated by Christian attitudes. That proves by itself that enforcing religious law isn't the only way to keep those things under control.
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    Who bloody cares, it's their country, their laws, they can do what they like. The UK always has a habit of sticking their noses where its not wanted. No wonder terrorists want to target Britain, leave these countries alone and worry about your own country for once.
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    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    The laws God gave the Jews were only meant to be temporary as far as enforcement went. That was the best they could do at the time. In today's world where we have an eternal sacrifice for our sins (Jesus, if you believe it [obviously you don't though]), there's no longer any need for man to enforce it.

    And no, God need not "come down himself" to enforce it. We die and go to him. Then he enforces it.
    The thing is that Islam instructs the believers to rule and enforce the laws of Allah on Earth:

    And this (He commands): Judge thou between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, but beware of them lest they beguile thee from any of that (teaching) which Allah hath sent down to thee. And if they turn away, be assured that for some of their crime it is Allah's purpose to punish them. And truly most men are rebellious.

    [Surah Al Maidah]

    Abdullaah Ibn `Abbaas, may Allah be pleased with him, narrated that the Prophet sallallahu `alaihi wa sallam said: "Five matters result when five things happen: If people break their covenant with Allah, He will send an enemy against them; If they rule by other than the Law of Allah, poverty will spread among them; If they become deceptive in trade, Allah will deprive them of crops and they will be struck with famine; And if they withhold the payment of Zakaah, they will be struck with drought."
    (Tabaraani)

    In another narration he sallallahu `alaihi wa sallam said: "If they break the covenant of Allah and His Messenger, Allah will send an external enemy against them who will seize some of their possessions; If they do not rule by the Book of Allah, nor attempt to implement everything in it, Allah will spread enmity among them."

    So you can see that the Indonesians are doing exactly as their religion commands them to do as a seperation between state and religion does not exist in Islam. Secularism is incompatible.

    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    Also look at the difference between sexuality in Europe today and Europe 300 years ago when it was dominated by Christian attitudes. That proves by itself that enforcing religious law isn't the only way to keep those things under control.
    I am not saying there aren't other ways to try and curb social problems that society possesses but religious laws are one of those ways and in the case of the Indonesian people, it is the best way as it carries the legitimacy and strength to deal with these issues.
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    (Original post by az1992)
    ................?

    I forget the part where every or even the majority of illegal immigrants are Muslim?
    I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say.
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    (Original post by numb3rb0y)
    I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say.
    well your a dinlow then.

    you said you dislike islam because you are worried about UK borders?
    well I am asking you, why do you beleive that every illegal immigrant or even the majority of them are muslim?
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    (Original post by Casse)
    The thing is that Islam instructs the believers to rule and enforce the laws of Allah on Earth:

    And this (He commands): Judge thou between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, but beware of them lest they beguile thee from any of that (teaching) which Allah hath sent down to thee. And if they turn away, be assured that for some of their crime it is Allah's purpose to punish them. And truly most men are rebellious.

    [Surah Al Maidah]

    Abdullaah Ibn `Abbaas, may Allah be pleased with him, narrated that the Prophet sallallahu `alaihi wa sallam said: "Five matters result when five things happen: If people break their covenant with Allah, He will send an enemy against them; If they rule by other than the Law of Allah, poverty will spread among them; If they become deceptive in trade, Allah will deprive them of crops and they will be struck with famine; And if they withhold the payment of Zakaah, they will be struck with drought."
    (Tabaraani)

    In another narration he sallallahu `alaihi wa sallam said: "If they break the covenant of Allah and His Messenger, Allah will send an external enemy against them who will seize some of their possessions; If they do not rule by the Book of Allah, nor attempt to implement everything in it, Allah will spread enmity among them."

    So you can see that the Indonesians are doing exactly as their religion commands them to do as a seperation between state and religion does not exist in Islam. Secularism is incompatible.
    And that's exactly why I could never be a Muslim.


    I am not saying there aren't other ways to try and curb social problems that society possesses but religious laws are one of those ways and in the case of the Indonesian people, it is the best way as it carries the legitimacy and strength to deal with these issues.
    I'd say simply having a large religious population, which Indonesia does, is more than enough to curb any problem that could possibly be associated with "mixing of the sexes."

    But religious law preventing it is fascistic and oppressive. People should have the freedom to sin if they want, it's their own lives. God gave us this crazy ability to choose for ourselves for a reason.
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    (Original post by Lou Reed)
    Yeah, but none of your views have been influenced by this "pure logic and thought" that you seem to possess, that was my point. It's fine if you are using faith, 'cause by definition, you needn't require rational thought processes.

    Really? You really think that when I die my spirit will somehow live on, carrying all of my thoughts, emotions, memories, and somehow retain the abillity to talk and argue coherently with God. If this Sharia thing is the divine law, then it is God that needs to be judged, imo.

    I will gladly explain to God why I did not believe in him, to his face (he has a face right?).

    Oh and since when did God clothe/feed me? He can't save the starving children in Africa but he can clothe/feed me, eh? Nice.
    I feel for you bro. One day when you do go on to find out the truth, I just hope you remember these exact words you uttered here - as they are enough to condemn a man eternally.
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    (Original post by Casse)
    Indonesia is a muslim country and the police are upholding Islamic law. I don't see what the problem is.
    as far as I know , no country in this world today rules by the Shariah Law of the hadith or the Qur'an. Just a bunch of miserly, ruhtless, autocrats ruling on whims.
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    [QUOTE=Delta Usafa]And that's exactly why I could never be a Muslim.



    I'd say simply having a large religious population, which Indonesia does, is more than enough to curb any problem that could possibly be associated with "mixing of the sexes."

    But religious law preventing it is fascistic and oppressive. People should have the freedom to sin if they want, it's their own lives. God gave us this crazy ability to choose for ourselves for a reason.[/QUOTE]
    Thats a weak arguement with many loopholes - should we allow murder, rape and thievery because its against God and morality? How do you know whats right and wrong?
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    (Original post by ajtiesto)
    Who bloody cares, it's their country, their laws, they can do what they like. The UK always has a habit of sticking their noses where its not wanted. No wonder terrorists want to target Britain, leave these countries alone and worry about your own country for once.
    YES, thank you. We moan when people appear to come here and tell us what laws we should have yet we somehow feel we have the right to judge another countries judicial system.

    It may suck that young girls and boys cant even sit next to each other but I am sure the average father prefers that then seeing his 14 year old daughter dressed like a ****, drunk on cheap vodka and getting felt up by a boy alot older then she is!

    (Original post by S.R91)
    Nuns cover their hair as do Orthodox Jewish women and you’re assuming that the act of guarding one’s modesty is forced. As for the marrying aged men, it’s not Islamic – yet, I wouldn’t expect you to know the difference.
    I have been following your points and in my view your spot on. People try and justify their intolerance of Islam by making out they are crusading for the women that "it oppresses". Infact they cannot comprehend the fact that these same women may choose through freewill to wear Burkhas?

    As someone also pointed out, marital rape was only made to be a recognized crime in this country in 1990s. Previous cases of marital rape were thrown out by judges. But i doubt any of these anti islamists would actually label our judicial system oppressive to women, despite the fact that also battered women had no defense to provoked violence until 1994
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    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    And that's exactly why I could never be a Muslim.



    I'd say simply having a large religious population, which Indonesia does, is more than enough to curb any problem that could possibly be associated with "mixing of the sexes."
    Having a religious population certainly helps in addressing the problem however there are plenty of people who are willing not to adhere to their religions. Why else would the be black markets for alcohol and underground gay gatherings in countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia where these things are banned.

    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    religious law preventing it is fascistic and oppressive. People should have the freedom to sin if they want, it's their own lives. God gave us this crazy ability to choose for ourselves for a reason.
    See it as a relationship between a parent and a child. The parent (state) sets the rules for the child (citizen) to follow. If the child breaks the rules then he is punished. It just happens to be that the rules set here are by God.
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    (Original post by MJlover)
    as far as I know , no country in this world today rules by the Shariah Law of the hadith or the Qur'an. Just a bunch of miserly, ruhtless, autocrats ruling on whims.
    That is true. The different countries implement different levels of sharia. Some more than others. It is after all the era of tyrants and oppressive dictatorships.

    The Prophet (saw) said;
    The Prophethood will last as long as Allah wills, then it will be replaced with the righteous caliphate as long as Allah wills, then it will be replaced with monarchy as long as Allah wills, then there will be oppressive dictatorship as long as Allah wills, then there will be a righteous caliphate on the method of the Prophethood. (Musnad Ahmad)
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    (Original post by roots)
    Its not a funhouse. It is called Hell not heaven minus colour.
    Hey roots

    With the greatest respect I think it is all a bunch of fairy tales.
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    (Original post by az1992)
    YES, thank you. We moan when people appear to come here and tell us what laws we should have yet we somehow feel we have the right to judge another countries judicial system.

    It may suck that young girls and boys cant even sit next to each other but I am sure the average father prefers that then seeing his 14 year old daughter dressed like a ****, drunk on cheap vodka and getting felt up by a boy alot older then she is!



    I have been following your points and in my view your spot on. People try and justify their intolerance of Islam by making out they are crusading for the women that "it oppresses". Infact they cannot comprehend the fact that these same women may choose through freewill to wear Burkhas?

    As someone also pointed out, marital rape was only made to be a recognized crime in this country in 1990s. Previous cases of marital rape were thrown out by judges. But i doubt any of these anti islamists would actually label our judicial system oppressive to women, despite the fact that also battered women had no defense to provoked violence until 1994
    Couldn't agree more.

    Look at the state of this girl, here in the UK.

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...e-ignored.html
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    (Original post by Casse)
    Having a religious population certainly helps in addressing the problem however there are plenty of people who are willing not to adhere to their religions. Why else would the be black markets for alcohol and underground gay gatherings in countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia where these things are banned.
    And those people who aren't willing to adhere to the religion are making their own choice. God gave them free will so they could do that if they wanted, and to ban free thought and the right to determine what we do with our own lives in a slap in his face.


    See it as a relationship between a parent and a child. The parent (state) sets the rules for the child (citizen) to follow. If the child breaks the rules then he is punished. It just happens to be that the rules set here are by God.
    My parents were cool though, and they let me make mistakes from time to time so I could learn from them. God lets me do it too.
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    It's good that the people of 'Aceh are implementing the sharee'ah. However, just a few observations from the video.

    The majority of the officers are without a beard. As enforcers of the sharee'ah, they should be setting an example by following the way of the Prophet (upon him be peace).

    Also, I noticed one of them smoking. Not a good thing to see from those who are supposed to stop others from partaking in such activities.

    However, I did like their method of approaching those who are in violation of the law rather than the approach taken by many of the mutawwa in Saudi Arabia who are too heavy-handed.
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    When will the BBC ever look into its own shythole first, before consulting to other countries. I dare them to walk the streets full of currupt power hungry police and say something... I would say puplic safty is greater in iraq then it is in Britian.

    Stupid british propaganda. Get over it.
 
 
 

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