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Muslims for 'Loyalty freedom & Peace'? watch

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    What do people think.

    http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/node/11041

    Muslims launch bus billboards to establish Peace.

    Is this a good Idea or method for the Muslim community to tackle terrorism?

    Do you think its effective?

    Are there better methods and so could it be improved?

    Any other thoughts?
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    The radical elements of the Muslim community would be most effectively dealt with from within. I hope they do it right.
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    As above. :ditto:
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    What kind of "peace" will it be?

    If I know religion well, and I think I do know it well, this kind of peace will probably not be what we expect peace to be according to our own values; our own western notions of peace.
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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    What kind of "peace" will it be?

    If I know religion well, and I think I do know it well, this kind of peace will probably not be what we expect peace to be according to our own values; our own western notions of peace.
    I'm under the impression that these are the more liberal and tolerant muslims.
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    (Original post by meowmeowmutiny)
    I'm under the impression that these are the more liberal and tolerant muslims.
    We are led to believe that the Christian Church in this country is rather tolerant, and yet just look at the Church's stance on homosexuality.

    I think there are degrees of tolerance (and liberalism) within religious institutions and organisations; but we often tend to measure the tolerance levels in such religious institutions and organisations by their doctrines. What do their doctrines say? "thou shalt not..." of course.

    In a progressive, liberal, tolerant, peaceful and enlightened age - values which most of us aspire to (or I would like to think so) -, a "thou shalt" would or could be the very antithesis of these values. We measure the goodness of a people or a body of people by what it values, what it teaches; what it lives for.
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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    We are led to believe that the Christian Church in this country is rather tolerant, and yet just look at the Church's stance on homosexuality.

    I think there are degrees of tolerance (and liberalism) within religious institutions and organisations; but we often tend to measure the tolerance levels in such religious institutions and organisations by their doctrines. What do their doctrines say? "thou shalt not..." of course.

    In a progressive, liberal, tolerant, peaceful and enlightened age - values which most of us aspire to (or I would like to think so) -, a "thou shalt" would or could be the very antithesis of these values. We measure the goodness of a people or a body of people by what it values, what it teaches; what it lives for.
    Well the point is that in this context their idea of peace is not having the youth turn into radicalised terrorists. That's what this is about and what you're talking about is irrelevent. Perhaps in the long term something different will be needed but for the current problem of a radicalised youth, this sort of initiative is exactly what we need.
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    (Original post by meowmeowmutiny)
    Well the point is that in this context their idea of peace is not having the youth turn into radicalised terrorists. That's what this is about and what you're talking about is irrelevent. Perhaps in the long term something different will be needed but for the current problem of a radicalised youth, this sort of initiative is exactly what we need.
    Yes, in this context. You're right.
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    The people behind this campaign are Ahmadi who are considered to be heretics by all other Muslims. They think their leader Mirza Ghulam is a prophet which takes them out of Islam. So they have pretty much zero influence on the Muslim community.
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    (Original post by Casse)
    They think their leader Mirza Ghulam is a prophet which takes them out of Islam.
    According to your understanding of Islam.
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    (Original post by Greens)
    According to your understanding of Islam.
    Its not my understanding. Every Muslim regards them as heretics for saying there is another prophet after Muhammed (saw). Do you even know what is the requirement to call oneself a Muslim?

    Orthodox Muslims consider both Ahmadi movements to be heretics and non-Muslims for a number of reasons, chief among them being the question of finality of prophethood, since they believe members of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community do not regard the Islamic prophet Muhammad as the last prophet.

    Mainstream Muslims do not accept this claim, and do not believe Ghulam Ahmad to have fulfilled the prophecies about the Promised Messiah and Mahdi. According to mainstream Muslims, Ghulam Ahmad's failure to establish a perfect worldwide Muslim government invalidates his claim to be the promised Mahdi and Messiah and hence he is seen as a false prophet. A 1974 declaration by the World Muslim League declared the Ahmadiyya movement to be outside the fold of Islam. The World Muslim League held its annual conference at Makkah Al-Mukaramma Saudi Arabia from 14th to 18th of Rabiul Awwal 1394 H (April 1974) in which 140 delegations of Muslim countries and organizations from all over the world participated.

    Both Ahmadi movements are considered non-Muslims by the Pakistan government, and have this fact recorded on their travel documents. By contrast, Ahmadi citizens from Western countries and other moderate Muslim nations perform Hajj and Umra, as the Saudi government is not made aware that they are Ahmadis when they apply for a visa.
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    This approach is absolutely the way forward, we've tried a war on terror and it's failed, we won't give that up as we're committed to it, but we need to try something else domestically. On the other hand this could remind some of the Islamophobes that there are moderate Muslims who want to live by British values. Good move!
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    (Original post by Casse)

    Both Ahmadi movements are considered non-Muslims by the Pakistan government, and have this fact recorded on their travel documents.
    And the Pakistani government is continually lauded for this rather pathetic decision, casting an entire religious sect (and a non-violent/cult based one too) into disarray, inciting violence against their communities. It was a barbaric thing to do, and was an act carried out under the barbaric regime of Zia. Surely this speaks volumes? :P

    And your whole passage still doesn't incidcate that all Muslims reject the Ahmadis. The more conservative Islamic nations exert massive power over the Islamic Conference/mainstream Islamic organisations, and thus make it difficult for more moderate voices, of which there are many, to even be heard. I think this campaign for Muslims to support non-violence, and to actively discourage any form of radicalised is a good thing. However, it is not something that we need to discuss. It's something which should just happen. Any group should take moves to prevent dangerous individuals/movements - it's surely part of the identity of the group.
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    As for the Church of England's position on homosexuality, yes it may seem intolerant and threatening but how does the CoE actually act upon its prejudices? Do we execute and imprison homosexuals in this country? No we don't.

    People do have the right to be intolerant, should they wish. If they are not persecuting people and threatening their liberty, we can't become 'thoughtpolice'

    As for Muslims for Loyalty, Freedom and Peace, good on them. I don't really care for religion much, but peace seems good enough.
 
 
 
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