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Tough on Crime, Tough on the Causes of Crime : Black Gang to Visit Lake District watch

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    (Original post by vroom9)
    and i suppose your solution would be to cut all public expenditure on inner cities, watch crime rise and then blame it on their skin colour?
    Build a wall around the more dangerous places. And let them kill each other.
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    I bet these "gangsta's" now think the state is appreiciating their good work and sending them on vacation like they're celebrities. Next they'll be asking to go to the bahamas. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by loki276)
    that is stupid

    send them to prison ffs
    why so you can then start moaning about how much tax it costs to detain someone?
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    (Original post by Nick_000)
    Why do black people commit so much crime? Not being funny. Why? I blame this stupid gangster culture. Young black lads thinking they're "soldiers". Pathetic.
    Hold the phone!

    first of all I totally disagree with the way you are generalising...

    BUT

    Lets imagine for a moment you were right to generalise the way you do. Would it be worth looking back towards slavery for a reason?
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    (Original post by tomfranks7)
    Hold the phone!

    first of all I totally disagree with the way you are generalising...

    BUT

    Lets imagine for a moment you were right to generalise the way you do. Would it be worth looking back towards slavery for a reason?
    Nope, I am black and a Muslim (Just want to get out of the way encase you believe I am islamophobic or a racist). I blame cultural dependency.


    Spoiler:
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    Why do we advertise slavery so much? You are giving a reason to be rebellious and retaliate by constant reputation. The A-rabs used to in slave the blacks before the Europeans but why doesn't it get as mentioned? Why when we refer to colonisation, we think of how many building where destroyed and how many people got killed. Why can't we think of how civilised some parts of Africa became. Ok, Africa had some natural resources e.g. gold and oil but did they no what to do with it? Wasn't it the Europeans that found out how many useful things gold and oil could be used to make?

    I am not saying that slavery should not be taught but I believe all this black appreciation month and ethnic minority fast track program for graduate jobs and the government telling workplaces and universities that they must have a certain percentage of ethnic minorities in their organisations. I believe that racism is a thing of the past. Why are we stereotyping workplaces that have all whites? Why are we not looking at the one’s that have all black? Anyway, slavery has been exposed to the point that if you ask a black person what is the first thing that comes to mind, they will most likely say white people.

    Why are the British people voting for the BNP? It is because Britain is to tolerant and to politically correct. Now Britain has always been a tolerant country with the communist, than the blacks and now the Muslims. Britain keeps on thinking that it can get a way around to not anger people. The British people are feeling like the government is blaming them, instead of blaming the problem. When black people caused riots and raised gun and knife crime, the government blamed it on other parties or they apologised for letting the public down.

    My solution would be to be like America. Here are some American points, which I believe that the British people could take on board:
    · Let ethnic minorities, be a part of your culture and acknowledge them as your fellow “Brits”. America has always been tolerant to ethnic minorities to an extent for example they had black Americans who they used to refer to as African American, and know they refer to each other as Americans. You may even see a few African Americans that fly the American flag.
    · Don’t just let anyone in. America has a good immigration policy in where it very hard to go over to the states. You have to have a close relative or have a job lined up. Why can’t we do that?
    · Britain needs to advance more. I mean America was intolerant of communism, than you have Brits who are very tolerant. Then they decide not to be tolerant. America realises that they need to do something about radical Muslim who brainwash little children, instead of just making their whole nation hate Islam. American’s government is very wary of Islam but the American people are very tolerant of Islam (1 you will find my sources). Now you have the Brits who after finally realising that their tolerance of radical Muslims will backfire have started on a new approach. But it is to late, because the British people are not very tolerant of Islam and Muslims (2) and now you have the government who will also not be tolerant of Muslims and therefore causing to feel isolated and afraid of Islamophobic attacks. I mean now it would seem that the minority radical Muslims in the minority of the whole Muslim population in the UK has become a majority? For some strange reason I believe that Britain is following America’s step slowly. I get the feeling like the BNP are a less violent KKK of the 1920’s where they had their peak with over 6million members. It seems as if the BNP will die out soon just like the KKK did and become a minority in a small village.

    1 -http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8715423/
    2- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...nds-study.html
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    I agree with this somewhat. Possibly because I do so much with the outdoors, I meet people trying it for the first time and they love it straight away. Not everybody will, but hey, it's worth a shot.

    What I don't agree with is the cost. £80 000? It cost me £95 to go to The Highlands for 4 days, which included food, accommodation, 2 days with qualified Mountain Guides (VERY experienced people) and the hiring of a bucket load of equipment. I'm trying to understand how it could even cost that much. That's £4 000 for each person, so £667 per day. How can somebody spend that much in The Lakes doing outdoor stuff?
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    (Original post by UGeNe)
    Build a wall around the more dangerous places. And let them kill each other.
    Then televise it.

    "Britain's got trash"?
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    Lmao £80,000 to the government is pittance. Most of them probably live in the closest thing the UK has to poverty.
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    (Original post by Nick_000)
    Why do black people commit so much crime? Not being funny. Why? I blame this stupid gangster culture. Young black lads thinking they're "soldiers". Pathetic.
    How do you maintain a large amount of pos rep while still saying things like that? I agree with you, but if I or anyone else said that they'd be negged into oblivion.
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    They won't last five minutes in the countryside.

    In all seriousness, they don't need a arm round the shoulder; they need a good kick up the arse.

    Anyway they can **** off back to the city.
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    (Original post by Cesare Borgia)
    How do you maintain a large amount of pos rep while still saying things like that? I agree with you, but if I or anyone else said that they'd be negged into oblivion.
    I don't know tbh. Most ppl who say things like me are in the red. You make a good point.
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    (Original post by Nick_000)
    I don't know tbh. Most ppl who say things like me are in the red. You make a good point.
    Are you being possed for your Cheryl Cole sig? Maybe that cancels out all the neg..
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    Could they take me up there instead?
    I'd actually want to go.

    Also of all the places they could have gone...why take people from the South East to the North West?
    Surely the South Downs, Bodmin Moor or Dartmoor would have been better?
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    (Original post by az1992)
    why so you can then start moaning about how much tax it costs to detain someone?
    I didn't know I moaned about prison costs?
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    (Original post by loki276)
    I didn't know I moaned about prison costs?
    sorry

    let me rephrase, if we just simply stuck every criminal in prison, you would then get people moaning about the costs so thats maybe why they havent simply thrown those youths in prison
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    (Original post by az1992)
    sorry

    let me rephrase, if we just simply stuck every criminal in prison, you would then get people moaning about the costs so thats maybe why they havent simply thrown those youths in prison
    I am sure putting them in a prison will be worth it as it stops them committing crime and recruiting new members
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    (Original post by Gueirguiy)
    Aye, most gangs in England would **** themselves if they squared up to some Scandinavians or around there.
    Most gang members would poo themselves if they squared up to your average ordinary citizen with all odds being equal (no guns and knives and on thier own).

    Thats because the vast majority of gang members are weasaly little cowards on thier own who rely on gang mentality and pack mentality to make up for thier lack of character and lack of backbone.


    (Original post by tomfranks7)
    Would it be worth looking back towards slavery for a reason?
    No. Simple reason these kid gangs who happen to be black are only a small proportion decendants of slaves. Plus slavery has been dead well over 100 years so its irrelavent to teens today as an excuse for modern behaviour.

    Even post war racism is only an excuse by the smallest of margins for most kids.

    The problem is more our society seems incapable of breaking generational cycles of like father like son crime and abusive behaviour continueing. the original cause is irrelevant and long lost. That goes for all races not just blacks.
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    (Original post by az1992)
    sorry

    let me rephrase, if we just simply stuck every criminal in prison, you would then get people moaning about the costs so thats maybe why they havent simply thrown those youths in prison
    Solution, revokation of human rights for prisoners, 2 to a cell, slopping out, basic minimum food needed to survive, military style exercise beastings. Reward those who show good conduct with re-education, 3 strikes and your out policy, life means life etc.

    The american system fails as its all about harsh locking up, punnishment and no rehab. so yank prisoners just adjust to new environment and become institutionalised with no skills for real world.

    Our system fails as its all about rehab but no punnishment. So like a ******* holiday camp, lots of random courses if you want, but no deterrant for future crime.

    Sadly crime DOES pay at present so career criminals will almost ALWAYS reoffend. If you make the consequences of thier actions horrible and nasty then crime wont be worth the time and most will change behaviour as a) they have new skills and b) conforming means a less painful life.

    You need harsh punnishment AND rehab. Punnishment is necessary to teach criminals the consequence of thier actions in a way they understand which is often brutality. Rehab is necessary to give hope for future and a means to get out of crime.

    A combination of negative and positive reinforcement works. Training bad behaved humans is no worse than training bad behaved dogs. Humans are just a little more complicated in areas but untimately its same basic emotional instincts and reactions to pain, pleasure etc.
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    personally i think its labour trying to use a vindication method instead of sending these idiots to prison the trying to show that there on the black communities side by sending them on a team bonding trip instead of sending them to prison.
    i bet if this gang was all white or the majority of them were white they would just be all given asbos and a slap on the wrist.
    its political correctness gone wrong.
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    (Original post by warrenpenalver)
    Solution, revokation of human rights for prisoners, 2 to a cell, slopping out, basic minimum food needed to survive, military style exercise beastings. Reward those who show good conduct with re-education, 3 strikes and your out policy, life means life etc.

    The american system fails as its all about harsh locking up, punnishment and no rehab. so yank prisoners just adjust to new environment and become institutionalised with no skills for real world.

    Our system fails as its all about rehab but no punnishment. So like a ******* holiday camp, lots of random courses if you want, but no deterrant for future crime.

    Sadly crime DOES pay at present so career criminals will almost ALWAYS reoffend. If you make the consequences of thier actions horrible and nasty then crime wont be worth the time and most will change behaviour as a) they have new skills and b) conforming means a less painful life.

    You need harsh punnishment AND rehab. Punnishment is necessary to teach criminals the consequence of thier actions in a way they understand which is often brutality. Rehab is necessary to give hope for future and a means to get out of crime.

    A combination of negative and positive reinforcement works. Training bad behaved humans is no worse than training bad behaved dogs. Humans are just a little more complicated in areas but untimately its same basic emotional instincts and reactions to pain, pleasure etc.
    its a shame really, on one hand you have some decent points that make me, a vehement rehabilitationist, reconsider. Unfortunately you ruin this by adding numerous accounts of prison life that sound like they were taken from a tabloid paper or far right political party website.

    I have actually no idea where this idea that prison life is comparable to a holiday camp originates? I can tell you from accounts I have heard through people that life is not like this unless you are a very well connected criminal.

    I agree that prison should be harsh with chances at re-education but the danger here is that many people would say starving a persistent pot smoker is harsh and that treating someone who obviously does need help such as a crack addict whose addiction is so great he robs people.

    Many criminals, not all granted, are like this because its all they know. Various people have commented on why it seems to be only black people who commit these crimes. Bar the obvious potential reason that we are more likely to hear about these then white initiated crimes as it is more interest to us, most major inner city areas have a high ethnic makeup and experience poverty. For some, all they know is how to deal or rob to get the things they want or even in some cases, the food they need to survive.

    My theory is the reason that 2/3rds of inmates re offend within 6 months of release is because 1) They haven't been properly educated to an alternate crime free life style, 2) they have no skills or qualifications of getting a job once freed, 3) While in prison they are exposed to similar people and are more likely to be educated on new methods of crime rather then have the expensive, time consuming but effective De-structualisation they need to stop committing crimes.

    If not you or someone else will undoubtabley quote me along the lines of soft **** and all that, but we see at the moment, merely locking people up has no effect bar crowding prisons.
 
 
 
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