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Banning The Sun/Lads Mags from Sale at LSE watch

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    (Original post by Olivia_Lightbulb)
    It is far more complex than one individual being offended. The ubiquity of 'lads mags' casts aspersions on society's values and attitudes towards women in general.
    As do all free publications. Are you in favour of banning violent movies, rock and roll, or rap music? What you are doing is trying to justify acts of sexual violence, to blame them on those civilised individuals who are capable of controlling themselves and excersizing their rights freely and responsibly. You excuse those mentally disturbed persons who cannot control themselves and shift the blame onto the whole of society. Including the independent women who make a free choice to exhibit their sexuality.


    Widespread availability of porn coarsens and brutalises society;
    What a vauge, self rightous statement formed from your own misguided opinion rather than fact.


    Perhaps you would be happy if we were to cover every inch of female flesh, to completely remove any 'coarsening' or temptation from society.
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    (Original post by Olivia_Lightbulb)
    It is far more complex than one individual being offended. The ubiquity of 'lads mags' casts aspersions on society's values and attitudes towards women in general. Widespread availability of porn coarsens and brutalises society; there must be boundaries in place to maintain the equality and compassion within society, and this is undermined by the mainstreaming and normalisation of porn and 'lads mags'.
    1. i agree there is some porn out there that is sick. but a lads mags? i really do not understand how this is harmful. and i find it offensive that you say me looking at boobs makes me a bad person (morally) and i treat women badly. i do not. and i am not in the minority. this argument is like saying some men are murderes hence lets stop murders by putting all men in prison.

    2. i find it funny that only women seem to think lads mags are harmful to society - when it is aimed at boys. and how do you know how it makes a guy feel? i am sorry but you simply cannot know this.

    3. i tell you this. guys can get pretty horny. take away his sex material. what do you think will happen. i tell you there will be even more inappropriate comments and groping and wolf whistling and the rest of it. do you really want this?
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    (Original post by Olivia_Lightbulb)
    No it isn't. The objectification and sexualisation of women occurs through the ubiquity and normalisation of porn and 'lads mags' which contribute to the notion that women exist solely as sex objects for the gratification of men. These magazines and the porn industry in general, are mostly run by men. These values have filtered down into mainstream society, and thus women are encouraged to wear very little clothing etc.
    causation and correlation.

    women have been degrading since beginning of humanity. prostitution is one of the oldest profession. yet mainstream porn has only been around since the internet and mass media. hell, the printing press is only 600 years old roughly even.

    so obviously history shows in a wolrd without porn, not much would change. in fact back then women had it worse probably.

    you have no statistical evidence whatsoever for porn causing the objectification of women (and no, you saying this happens because its "obvious" is simply not a valid argument). and we are talking about lads mags even, not even hardcore porn.
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    (Original post by danny111)
    causation and correlation.

    women have been degrading since beginning of humanity. prostitution is one of the oldest profession. yet mainstream porn has only been around since the internet and mass media. hell, the printing press is only 600 years old roughly even.

    so obviously history shows in a wolrd without porn, not much would change. in fact back then women had it worse probably.

    you have no statistical evidence whatsoever for porn causing the objectification of women (and no, you saying this happens because its "obvious" is simply not a valid argument). and we are talking about lads mags even, not even hardcore porn.
    What sort of statistical evidence is she sposed to have? Statistics are virtually impossible to use and useless in cases such as this.

    Porn isn't necessarily the cause for the objectification of women- it's a symptom of the way women are viewed in society, and at the same time strengthens and reinforces this view. This view of women as only good for sex and childbearing has been around forever, you're right, but as society changes it shows itself and reinforces itself in different ways, in this case through pornography. So just because pornography hasn't always existed, that doesn't mean it's not linked to something that has.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Look at all girls schools; they are much more fashion orientated, have higher incidences of eating disorders, and generally objectify and sexualise themselves at a much younger age.
    I would say this is more to do with the high pressure, sexually repressed environment.
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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    I would say this is more to do with the high pressure, sexually repressed environment.
    So a sexually repressed environment sexualises women, and porn sexualises women? What in your mind DOESN'T sexualise women?
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    (Original post by TShadow383)
    So a sexually repressed environment sexualises women, and porn sexualises women? What in your mind DOESN'T sexualise women?
    I don't think sexualise is a particularly useful word here, and I'm not sure why you're using it since it's not one I mentioned. Both sexually repressed environments and pornography create unhealthy attitudes to sex and women, yes, if that's what you mean.
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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    I would say this is more to do with the high pressure, sexually repressed environment.
    lol. Just more excuses. I would say that it's not. I would say that it's because without boys there for the few girls who aren't plebs to socialise with, they are forced by the majority who want to objectify and sexualise themselves in order to conform. This is an environment that is very shielded from men, perhaps the most shielded place a woman can inhabit during her life time, yet it enbodies the things you complain about most; the sexualisation and objectification of women. And you have the 'balls' to say that this is down to men? haha.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    lol. Just more excuses. I would say that it's not. I would say that it's because without boys there for the few girls who aren't plebs to socialise with, they are forced by the majority who want to objectify and sexualise themselves in order to conform. This is an environment that is very shielded from men, perhaps the most shielded place a woman can inhabit during her life time, yet it enbodies the things you complain about most; the sexualisation and objectification of women. And you have the 'balls' to say that this is down to men? haha.
    I would say that I have a lot more experience of all girls schools then you could, so forgive me if I value my judgements over yours.

    I didn't experience any objectification of women in my years at an all girls school. Objectification and sexualisation aren't the same.
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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    I would say that I have a lot more experience of all girls schools then you could, so forgive me if I value my judgements over yours.

    I didn't experience any objectification of women in my years at an all girls school. Objectification and sexualisation aren't the same.
    But, do you have experience of mixed environments compared to all girl environments as my girlfriend does? When the girls sexualise they dress provocatively; thereby objectifying themselves. There is much more pressure at all girls schools to conform, and accordingly there are far higher cases of eating disorders there.
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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    What sort of statistical evidence is she sposed to have? Statistics are virtually impossible to use and useless in cases such as this.

    Porn isn't necessarily the cause for the objectification of women- it's a symptom of the way women are viewed in society, and at the same time strengthens and reinforces this view. This view of women as only good for sex and childbearing has been around forever, you're right, but as society changes it shows itself and reinforces itself in different ways, in this case through pornography. So just because pornography hasn't always existed, that doesn't mean it's not linked to something that has.
    I will impose some form of authority here since I happen to study econometrics. Don't talk about stuff you obviously do not understand. The only valid point in first paragraph is that it would be difficult to get data on this. But once you have it (btw only then its called a statistic, so what you say is technically wrong anyway) it most certainly is not useless.

    So what kind of doctor do you want? One that treats symptons or one that tries to prevent the symptons before they happen? Also do you think by banning all porn everything will miraculously get better? Did you read my post about what i think would happen then? If you didn remember Dr. Cox's view on what would happen if you would ban porn on the internet:



    These are my answers to your post. I will now make one final comment outlying why i will stop arguing.

    who the hell are you to repeatedly tell me that i objectify women at all in the first place, and apparently more so because i watch porn? do you even realise how insulting that is? Some men may do this, but your generalisation of all men thinking women are just walking pussies, is in a way (given that you are all self-righteous about it) a lot worse than the "objectifying" of women itself.

    goodbye.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    But, do you have experience of mixed environments compared to all girl environments as my girlfriend does? When the girls sexualise they dress provocatively; thereby objectifying themselves. There is much more pressure at all girls schools to conform, and accordingly there are far higher cases of eating disorders there.
    Yes, I do have experience of mixed sex environments.
    There is much more pressure at all girls schools to conform, and accordingly there are far higher cases of eating disorders there.
    Yeah?
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    (Original post by danny111)
    I will impose some form of authority here since I happen to study econometrics. Don't talk about stuff you obviously do not understand. The only valid point in first paragraph is that it would be difficult to get data on this. But once you have it (btw only then its called a statistic, so what you say is technically wrong anyway) it most certainly is not useless.

    So what kind of doctor do you want? One that treats symptons or one that tries to prevent the symptons before they happen? Also do you think by banning all porn everything will miraculously get better? Did you read my post about what i think would happen then? If you didn remember Dr. Cox's view on what would happen if you would ban porn on the internet:



    These are my answers to your post. I will now make one final comment outlying why i will stop arguing.

    who the hell are you to repeatedly tell me that i objectify women at all in the first place, and apparently more so because i watch porn? do you even realise how insulting that is? Some men may do this, but your generalisation of all men thinking women are just walking pussies, is in a way (given that you are all self-righteous about it) a lot worse than the "objectifying" of women itself.

    goodbye.
    Lol, what on earth are you on about? Are you sure you're replying to the right person?

    You can bang on about the awesomeness of statistics, but you still haven't shown in the slightest how they could be of use in this situation, or how Olivia Lightbulb was supposed to get statistics on this.

    No idea why you're talking about doctors. Or why you're hysterically accusing me of insulting you. Oh well.
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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    Lol, what on earth are you on about? Are you sure you're replying to the right person?

    You can bang on about the awesomeness of statistics, but you still haven't shown in the slightest how they could be of use in this situation, or how Olivia Lightbulb was supposed to get statistics on this.

    No idea why you're talking about doctors. Or why you're hysterically accusing me of insulting you. Oh well.
    no wonder one cannot argue with you if you do not even understand simple analogies.
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    (Original post by danny111)
    no wonder one cannot argue with you if you do not even understand simple analogies.

    Well, since I never would advocate banning porn, I'm pretty confused as to why you'd use it.
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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    Well, since I never would advocate banning porn, I'm pretty confused as to why you'd use it.
    you support banning lads mags (or why are you arguing on this thread).

    not only is the principle the same as banning porn, but would you not say its weird to want to ban boobies in some magazine but not women being ****** by horses and god knows what else on the internet?
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    (Original post by danny111)
    you support banning lads mags (or why are you arguing on this thread).

    not only is the principle the same as banning porn, but would you not say its weird to want to ban boobies in some magazine but not women being ****** by horses and god knows what else on the internet?
    I don't support 'banning lads mags'. I think a university ceasing to sell such things would be a good idea, that's not a 'ban'. People should be able to read and watch whatever they want. Whether a university should be selling whatever they want is a different issue altogether. Obviously you've got a bit confused on my stance.
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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    I don't support 'banning lads mags'. I think a university ceasing to sell such things would be a good idea, that's not a 'ban'. People should be able to read and watch whatever they want. Whether a university should be selling whatever they want is a different issue altogether. Obviously you've got a bit confused on my stance.
    fair enough, i apologise for that.

    but i maintain that your view on objectification is offensive and ignorant.
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    (Original post by ArtGoblin)
    Women are socialised to believe they must be attractive and appealing to men to be successful, and magazines exploit this in order to shift units. Most magazines will be owned by men, and it suits them for women to believe this as they make money out of it and women continue to suffer so that they are attractive to men. There is nothing in women's nature that makes them more likely to fall for advertising, but they have been brought up in a society that tells them they must look good, which is not so much of an issue for men.
    Since i cant get to sleep i'd argue society won't change because of basic human nature; attractive women and men are more likely to be successful and not forgetting other factors e.g. economic/social background.

    It's shortsighted to say that men have an easy ride. Lad mags epitomise the shift in society that has gradually pushed levels of attractiveness to the fore of our attention, though this has only really occured over the last 20 years. Lads mags offering male fashion and workout advice in order to get these perfect women, boy bands, twilight etc that lead to unrealistic expectations and pressures of our own. Therefore society obviously tells us to look good as well.
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    (Original post by Jxhn)
    The feminist society at the LSE have submitted a proposal to ban The Sun and 'Lads Mags' from our Student Union shop.



    What do people think?
    That's because feminists are fat ugly lesbians...:woo: :eek3: :yep:
 
 
 
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