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    (Original post by Ivan Stanchev)
    But are these US firms located in London considered MC firms ?They must be the hardest to get training contracts ?
    The Magic Circle consists of Allen & Overy, Slaughter and May, Clifford Chance, Freshfields and Linklaters and are considered to be the biggest and 'best' of UK-based firms and compete in the international market with US firms like Skadden and Sullivan and Cromwell.

    However, it is very difficult to directly compare the UK's domestic legal job market with the US's domestic legal job market as the way you enter into the profession is quite different. In the US, it is my understanding that you have to do four years of undergraduate degree and then three years of very practice-focused postgraduate law before you can work in a law firm. Compare that to the UK where you can start at a law firm after three years of a law degree and a year of postgrad law (the fees for the latter are often paid by the firm). So when people start at US firms they will generally have at least seven years' worth of student debt and because of their postgrad degree they are often more 'experienced' and skilled in legal practice, hence salaries can be higher.

    If you are asking about US firms that offer Training Contracts in London then yes, they can be harder to get Training Contracts at than at Magic Circle firms, but that is really down to numbers more than anything else. Your average Magic Circle/City firm takes on 100+ trainees a year, whereas your average US firm's London office only takes only 10-20. As they take on so few people they can afford to be much picker and the fact that you have thousands of applicants for those 10 places means that competition can be ridiculous.
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    you know when people are making assumptions about "when you become partner, you 1.2 millions or whatever"....isn't that highly deceptive - isn't it EQUITY partner when you make these sums of money, not partner. sure you can make partner after 10 years...and to be honest, if you don't you're probably out.

    i'd be intrigued to know what non-equity partner salaries are. these never seem to get mentioned.
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    (Original post by TommehR)
    The Magic Circle consists of Allen & Overy, Slaughter and May, Clifford Chance, Freshfields and Linklaters and are considered to be the biggest and 'best' of UK-based firms and compete in the international market with US firms like Skadden and Sullivan and Cromwell.

    However, it is very difficult to directly compare the UK's domestic legal job market with the US's domestic legal job market as the way you enter into the profession is quite different. In the US, it is my understanding that you have to do four years of undergraduate degree and then three years of very practice-focused postgraduate law before you can work in a law firm. Compare that to the UK where you can start at a law firm after three years of a law degree and a year of postgrad law (the fees for the latter are often paid by the firm). So when people start at US firms they will generally have at least seven years' worth of student debt and because of their postgrad degree they are often more 'experienced' and skilled in legal practice, hence salaries can be higher.

    If you are asking about US firms that offer Training Contracts in London then yes, they can be harder to get Training Contracts at than at Magic Circle firms, but that is really down to numbers more than anything else. Your average Magic Circle/City firm takes on 100+ trainees a year, whereas your average US firm's London office only takes only 10-20. As they take on so few people they can afford to be much picker and the fact that you have thousands of applicants for those 10 places means that competition can be ridiculous.
    Well, there may be thousands of applicants, but no more than 250-300 have a first degree.We can add about 250 more with 2.1 and excellent ECs and CVs from Oxbridge,LSE,UCL, Kings and the competition isnt that ridiculous.Certainly I dont believe a Portsmouth or Northumbria graduate with anything below a 1st is a ''real'' candidate
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    Well, there may be thousands of applicants, but no more than 250-300 have a first degree.We can add about 250 more with 2.1 and excellent ECs and CVs from Oxbridge,LSE,UCL, Kings and the competition isnt that ridiculous.
    I'm sorry your reasoning here is terrible. Firstly your "statistics" are some way off. 250 people graduating with a 2.1 + excellent EC's from Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, UCL, Kings etc?? Do you have any idea how many people the schools you mentioned take - and give 2.1s to? Secondly you forget the fact that non-law students also apply for training contracts.

    Finally you seem to be under the impression that grades maketh the man/woman. They don't.

    Make no mistake, at the present time, obtaining a training contract at a corporate (and otherwise) law firm is exceptionally challenging. For their 2011 intake A&O had well in excess of 6000 apps for c.100 positions. On the US side, Latham was closer to 3000 apps for c.10 positions. The vast majority of applicants will have or expect a 2.1 and have good A-Levels, so would very much consider themeselves "real" candidates. Further, year-on-year good candidates fail to obtain training contracts and are added to the pool the following year. All adds up to terrific competition.
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    Thank you all very much. Anyway, seeing as the thread went into this direction, what's the U.S pay 'structure'/average like? I know this will vary across such a massive country but I mean the decent/top firms in NYC. (for eg)
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    (Original post by Installation)
    Thank you all very much. Anyway, seeing as the thread went into this direction, what's the U.S pay 'structure'/average like? I know this will vary across such a massive country but I mean the decent/top firms in NYC. (for eg)
    You seem awfully obsessed about money Installation :rolleyes:
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    Imo, starting a Law degree after this gap year and having weighed up the options, if its money you want then a MC contract is not worth it for the effort you have to put in. There's way better avenues to making X amount of money than going along this road.
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    (Original post by RBarack)
    Or, become a stock broker and potentially earn millions right from the start. :woo:
    not really, it will still take you a few years to earn millions. Hundreds of thousands on the other hand is another thing
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    (Original post by Redeyejedi)
    I'm sorry your reasoning here is terrible. Firstly your "statistics" are some way off. 250 people graduating with a 2.1 + excellent EC's from Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, UCL, Kings etc?? Do you have any idea how many people the schools you mentioned take - and give 2.1s to? Secondly you forget the fact that non-law students also apply for training contracts.

    Finally you seem to be under the impression that grades maketh the man/woman. They don't.

    Make no mistake, at the present time, obtaining a training contract at a corporate (and otherwise) law firm is exceptionally challenging. For their 2011 intake A&O had well in excess of 6000 apps for c.100 positions. On the US side, Latham was closer to 3000 apps for c.10 positions. The vast majority of applicants will have or expect a 2.1 and have good A-Levels, so would very much consider themeselves "real" candidates. Further, year-on-year good candidates fail to obtain training contracts and are added to the pool the following year. All adds up to terrific competition.
    These statistics sound extremely discouraging ... ;[
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    (Original post by abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz)
    not really, it will still take you a few years to earn millions. Hundreds of thousands on the other hand is another thing
    Case: Friend's brother.
    Age: 25.

    Graduated from the University of Florida at the age of 22 majoring in accounting.

    (Approximately 2 years after graduation) ~ final quarter of 2008 to final quarter of 2009, net profit of $ 1,000,000 + USD. Is he lying? The fact that he personally owns both a ferrari and his own 3000 sq. ft CBD apartment in Hong Kong, I highly doubt it.

    Indeed, he had been investing throughout college and accumulating money that way.

    If you have the aptitude for investments, stocks and shares, you could potentially become filthy rich.

    Of course, it's a one in a million case.
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    (Original post by RBarack)
    Case: Friend's brother.
    Age: 25.

    Graduated from the University of Florida at the age of 22 majoring in accounting.

    (Approximately 2 years after graduation) ~ final quarter of 2008 to final quarter of 2009, net profit of $ 1,000,000 + USD. Is he lying? The fact that he personally owns both a ferrari and his own 3000 sq. ft CBD apartment in Hong Kong, I highly doubt it.

    Indeed, he had been investing throughout college and accumulating money that way.

    If you have the aptitude for investments, stocks and shares, you could potentially become filthy rich.

    Of course, it's a one in a million case.
    but 1 mil usd equates to £629,523.63 which is in the hundreds :p: don't doubt his earnings as i know it's more than possible (and i wouldn't say he is a one in a million case) but i doubt his apartment in HK is 3000 sq ft - property over there is ridiculous. Especially if it's in HK central/Kowloon then even more so, that kind of money would not buy a 3000 sq ft apartment at all in those areas

    Put it this way, did a bit of googling (so yea it's not going to be 100% accurate but you get the idea) - in new territories (the cheaper area of HK) a 530ft apartment cost roughly 129000 USD, so a 3000 ft apartment would cost close to 770000 USD. Now that's the one of the cheapest parts of HK - and seeing as he would probably live in the more central part of hong kong for finance related work, the property would be well above that price. Cheapest areas in HK central costs 708 USD per square foot alone so your friends brother would have to spend over 2 million to live in the cheapest area and assuming CBD means central business district, you're friends brother will be paying a hell of a lot more than 2 million

    Perhaps he has an apartment in HK CBD but i highly doubt it's 3000
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    (Original post by Rofl)
    You seem awfully obsessed about money Installation :rolleyes:
    :dontknow: I just want info. Just so happens that the two questions I've asked are about salary.
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    (Original post by Ivan Stanchev)
    These statistics sound extremely discouraging ... ;[
    Don't forget that anyone can apply, to an unlimited number of firms. If 3000 people apply, and all apply to 10 firms, which all take on 100 people a year, that's 900 people less per firm as they will accept training contracts elsewhere
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    The following salaries are quoted from Chambers Student Guide 2010:
    YEAR 1 – YEAR 2 – QUALIFICATION

    Magic Circle
    Allen & Overy: £38,000 - £42,200 - £60,000
    Clifford Chance: £37,400 - £42,200 - £59,000
    Freshfields: £39,000 - £44,000 - £59,000
    Linklaters: £37,400 – £42,200 - £61,500
    Slaughter and May: £38,000 - £43,000 - £61,000

    Silver Circle
    Ashurst: £37,000 - £41,000 - £60,000
    Berwin Leighton Paisner - £37,000 - £40,000 - £58,000
    Herbert Smith: £37,500 - £42,500 - £60,000
    Macfarlanes: £37,000 - £41,500 - £59,000
    Travers Smith: £36,000 - £40,000 - £58,000
    SJ Berwin: £37,500 - £41,500 - £59,000

    Other City
    Addleshaw Goddard: £35,000 - £36,000 - £58,000
    Baker & McKenzie: £37,500 (+£3,000 joining bonus) - £40,000 - £59,000
    Bird & Bird: £35,000 - £37,000 - £55,000
    Clyde & Co: £35,000 - £38,000 - £59,000
    CMS Cameron McKenna - £37,500 - £41,500 - £59,000
    Denton Wilde Sapte: £35,000 - £37,000 - £58,000
    DLA Piper: £36,000 - £38,000 - £58,000
    Eversheds: £35,000 - £37,000 - £57,000
    Lovells: £37,000 - £42,000 - £59,000
    Norton Rose: £35,700 - £40,200 – not known
    Olswang: £35,000 - £39,000 - £58,000
    Pinsent Masons: £36,000 - £39,000 - £63,000
    Simmons & Simmons: £36,000 - £40,000 - £59,000
    Taylor Wessing: £31,500 - £35,000 - £55,000

    US Firms
    Bingham McCutchen: £40,000 - £45,000 - £100,000
    Cleary Gottlieb: £40,000 - £45,000 - £92,000
    Dewey & LeBoeuf: £40,000 - £45,000 - £70,000
    Jones Day: £41,000 - £50,000 - £70,000
    Latham & Watkins: £41,000 - £44,000 - £96,970
    Paul Hastings: £40,000 - £45,000 - £80,000
    Shearman & Sterling: £39,000 - £39,000 - £73,000
    Vinson & Elkins: £40,000 - £42,000 - £75,000
    White & Case: £42,000 - £44,000 - £72,000

    To conclude, Magic Circle salaries are broadly similar to those at most other City law firms. If money is a prime motivator for you, US Firms are in an entirely different league, with Bircham McCutchen paying the most at £100,000 on qualification. The astronomical salary, however, comes with a demand for practically all your waking hours to revolve around work. So what comes first, your money or your life?
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    And as a further point of interest, the highest number of recorded applications were 3,000 to Eversheds for 55 contracts.

    The next highest were 2,500-2,600 to Allen & Overy (for 105 contracts), Ashurst (55), DLA Piper (85) and Norton Rose (55).
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    (Original post by Hesselius)
    To conclude, Magic Circle salaries are broadly similar to those at most other City law firms. If money is a prime motivator for you, US Firms are in an entirely different league, with Bircham McCutchen paying the most at £100,000 on qualification. The astronomical salary, however, comes with a demand for practically all your waking hours to revolve around work. So what comes first, your money or your life?
    I don't think the choice is quite so clear cut - the suggestion that Magic Circle firms are going to make lesser demands on your time is dubious to say the least. Presumably at least some people here are aware of Freshfields making the news recently for this - http://www.rollonfriday.com/ThisWeek...8/Default.aspx *cough*
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    (Original post by Hesselius)
    And as a further point of interest, the highest number of recorded applications were 3,000 to Eversheds for 55 contracts.

    The next highest were 2,500-2,600 to Allen & Overy (for 105 contracts), Ashurst (55), DLA Piper (85) and Norton Rose (55).
    Linklaters had 4,000 applications for 110 TCs.
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    The astronomical salary, however, comes with a demand for practically all your waking hours to revolve around work.
    Are you suggesting that this would be in some way different for a Magic Circle lawyer, or someone from Ashurst, Travers Smith or Macfarlanes?! Hours at top UK Corporate law firms will be broadly similar to US firms. Don't buy into the myths about US firms! They pay more money because (a) they expect you to take on more responsibility/pressure than a UK solicitor and, (b) to pay at a parity with US offices - otherwise US qualifieds would sooner chop of their foot than work in London; and of course you have to pay similar rates to UK/US associates in the same office.

    Your figures for A&O's 2011 in-take are way off as well.
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    (Original post by Redeyejedi)
    Finally you seem to be under the impression that grades maketh the man/woman. They don't.
    Agreed.

    I like to think I'm a shining example (haha) to all those people with "lowly" 2.1s from normal red brick regional universities.

    Rant time: I've seen a hell of a lot of ****ging off of Warwick on those law at university boards, which is ironic really isn't it when there's about 6 from that uni in my MC firm intake and only 2 from Bristol and 2 from Durham, universities frequently stated to be "better".
    Also, there's people with firsts, but lets face it, out of 114 of us, only about 30% have them.

    (Original post by redeyejedi)
    For their 2011 intake A&O had well in excess of 6000 apps for c.100 positions.
    Where did you get that information from?
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    (Original post by Happy1)



    Where did you get that information from?
    I remember reading in the Lex 100 for that year that there were 5000+ applications for c.120 positions. Although, I'm not sure if the number of positions available was reduced or not last year. This year they have 105 places.
 
 
 
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