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Slight dilemma on my hands with regard to qualifications getting in to the RAF watch

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    That's unfortunate for you, must be annoying to never know whether you'd have got in or not! I'm surprised at that '40' figure though, that's almost twice the size of a normal OASC group. Don't worry, I wasn't asking because I need any advice, more to find out your qualification for speaking with such conviction!
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    (Original post by Lloyd_wills)
    serving in the RAF in lower roles for the past 5-15 years.
    Intriguing choice of words there!
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    Yes it was a large group. They cut about 30 of them on the 2nd day. They said it was one of the biggest cuts they ever had!
    Another 4 left during other stages.

    Schleigg what do you mean by that ? I ment that the OASC jobs are commissioned and non commissioned jobs, officers and such. What I meant by lower roles were the entry level jobs such as Technician and such. Nothing against them, just lower rank!
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    Meh I was just being pernickety. I wouldn't say that a WO Gunner's role is lower than that of a a Plt Off Adminer...?

    (Original post by Lloyd_wills)
    OASC jobs are commissioned and non commissioned jobs, officers and such.
    All jobs in the RAF are commissioned and non-commissioned, that's the difference between Officers and Airmen...

    What I meant by lower roles were the entry level jobs such as Technician and such. Nothing against them, just lower rank!
    So which rank is higher, SAC or civilian potential officer? :P

    I know what you were getting at but the choice of wording just sounded a bit disrespectful and I was in a picky mood. :top:
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    (Original post by Schleigg)
    So which rank is higher, SAC or civilian potential officer? :P
    You mean civvy potential airman?
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    Hmm, not really sure why my post got deleted on this one, anyway, to reiterate:

    (Original post by Tennis_Maestro)
    Now, I’d like to think I’ve come a long way since I was 16 in terms of my English skills, however its what's written in black and white that counts.
    You answered your own question in your first post mate, unlucky.

    (Original post by Lloyd_wills)
    Yes it was a large group. They cut about 30 of them on the 2nd day. They said it was one of the biggest cuts they ever had!
    Another 4 left during other stages.

    Schleigg what do you mean by that ? I ment that the OASC jobs are commissioned and non commissioned jobs, officers and such. What I meant by lower roles were the entry level jobs such as Technician and such. Nothing against them, just lower rank!
    "Entry level" jobs? Don't WSOp's (not WIZOPS ) join at "entry" level? And what about those officers, don't they have an entry level? Maybe I'm a little out of the loop, or completely off the ball, but I know that officers going through BRNC when they do a stint on a ship dig out, and they don't exactly get an easy time of it- even the old baby-tiff's (who got thrown through their CofC's and therefore weren't exactly popular amongst the old seadogs) got it easier than the mid's did.

    You're not doing a great job of getting your point across here buddy; maybe that, coupled with your apparent air of self-importance and excellent achievement at not being chopped at the aptitudes, was the reason to you not making it as aircrew? Who knows, maybe they'd have let the eyesight thing slide if you could atleast learn the acronym instead of just the colloquial pronunciation of the job you were applying for - the RAF (acronym by which the Royal Air Force is better known!) are very keen on those little things!

    You appear to have read the recruiting jargon about backseaters getting slung into a few chevrons and think that makes them great, but it's fair to say that having a rank and having respect don't always come hand-in-hand. To paraphrase: don't look down your nose at those in the lower ranks, you'd be amazed at how one day you may rely on them (not that it's really appropriate as you'll probably end up a disgruntled techie "could've been aircrew" anyway; met more than my fair share of those - and people don't usually tend to invite them to the pub).

    Just my personal opinion of how your posts on here come across.

    :top:
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    Actually I wasn't being like that at all but oh well. Also I dont consider WSOp :P to be "entry level" as once trained you are a Sergeant not a Private like the other entry level jobs!

    And I doubt they'd of let my eye condition "slide". It was the example in the medical booklet of conditions that bar you from entry
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    (Original post by Lloyd_wills)
    Actually I wasn't being like that at all but oh well. Also I dont consider WSOp :P to be "entry level" as once trained you are a Sergeant not a Private like the other entry level jobs!

    And I doubt they'd of let my eye condition "slide". It was the example in the medical booklet of conditions that bar you from entry
    Fair one if you're not like that, but you're not exactly on the ball with NCA not being entry-level, you join the same as the lads you'll one day lead. Granted, you'll have done well to get to that stage, and you'll do even better to get your brevet and CR.

    My aim isn't to try to play devil's advocate about NCA not being as good as pilot, or better than an AMM, but simply that the attitude of "hierarchy derives respect" isn't really how it works... maybe on paper, but not in the real world.

    Respect is earned, and unfortunately the reason that subordinates tend to have such a dim view of the officers (and some NCA/ RN tiff's et c.) that lead them is that those in question think they're "better" simply because of their rank/ role (though I also understand that this is very often not the case and that jealousy is the true reason).

    My original point was aimed towards your understanding of this "level" system, I'm afraid there isn't really such a thing as "entry level" as you seem to understand it: "entry level" would be someone junior in their role, not simply junior in rank [undergoing training for example, though this is often "linked", it doesn't necessarily correlate to rank]. To put this into context a SAC(T) AMM is much more valuable to the RAF, and his unit, than an SAC(T) WSOp (if they even have SAC(T)'s, I don't know exactly how the progression goes, I assume from they "jump" Cpl, but again, I don't know).

    The eyesight thing was my attempt at humour - FAIL!

    :top:

    EDIT: Good luck finding a Pvt in the RAF!
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    (Original post by Tennis_Maestro)
    Oh come off it now, that was 9 years ago, I don't see why I should be continually punished for a lazy sin I committed as a (fairly young) teen, had I been bothered with the coursework, in all probability the grade would've been achieved, or even higher.
    As Theo said, you're answering your own question really. It's not a lazy sin you committed 9 years ago, it's a lazy sin you committed 9 years ago, plus another one during your A levels, and now another one now when you admit you "can't be bothered" to get the qualification.

    To be perfectly honest, with that attitude towards academia ("won't they be able to just tell I'm good enough without the grade?" etc) there is absolutely no way in 1000 years that you'd get anywhere near an aeroplane anyway.

    You don't have to have the capability to pass a natural sciences degree from Cambridge to get in, but you absolutely do have to have a comparable work ethic, an incredible degree of drive, and an awful lot of natural ability; both academic and otherwise.

    You're competing with a lot of people like me; with the maximum number of GCSEs and AS/A levels, all at the maximum possible grade, and an excellent degree from an extremely well regarded top-5 university, and good officer qualities and excellent aptitude. So even if you did, by fluke, have good aptitude and do well at selection, there are plenty of people like me out there who have done just as well or better, and have miles in excess of the minimum academic requirements.

    You want to do it, then sharpen up a bit and show some drive. Enrol on a GCSE course now; find a way to do it so you'd pass it in time. Get to an AFCO, ask if they'd consider starting things off bearing in mind you're chasing that missing GCSE, and see what they say.

    Otherwise, I'm afraid you're a deserving casualty of your admitted academic laziness. Good luck regardless.
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    Sharpen up a little bit? LOL!

    I'm extremely sharp. It seems this thread has turned into some kind've patronising frenzy amongst military fanatics. I probably should've just posted this in the PRMC instead, i would've simply recieved a yes or no or you might as well try answer, rather than this nonsense. lol

    I rang up and they've (in very bold fashion) told me the chances are very slim. I've decided to go with applying for Commando position in the Royal Marines.

    Thank you to the couple of posters thats advise was actually constructive and worth my read.
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    (Original post by Tennis_Maestro)
    I'm extremely sharp.
    I can echo Wzz in that you would never make it as a pilot and with the attitude you've got, you're almost certainly not going to make it as a Royal Marine either.

    Many of the people who've been giving you 'advice' are regular serving forces personnel. When you get yourself down to an AFCO, the first thing that anybody will think is "Would I want to go to war with this person." In your case, for me, the answer is definitely, "no."
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    (Original post by Tennis_Maestro)
    I'm extremely sharp. It seems this thread has turned into some kind've patronising frenzy amongst military fanatics.
    Firstly, rather than a "military fanatic," I'm a serving pilot with several years experience, who's also worked in recruitment before.

    Secondly, you're not that sharp. You were too lazy to work through your GCSEs, too dull to give a stuff about your A levels despite it being fairly obvious to most people that qualifications of some variety are pretty important, and as Theo's mentioned you've managed one year of a not-terribly-well-regarded degree and have then taken a year out.

    Not being academic, or simply not being intelligent is one year. Screwing up all of your qualifications because you "didn't care," or "couldn't be bothered" is hardly indicative of someone who's sharp.
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    (Original post by Wzz)
    Firstly, rather than a "military fanatic," I'm a serving pilot with several years experience, who's also worked in recruitment before.

    Secondly, you're not that sharp. You were too lazy to work through your GCSEs, too dull to give a stuff about your A levels despite it being fairly obvious to most people that qualifications of some variety are pretty important, and as Theo's mentioned you've managed one year of a not-terribly-well-regarded degree and have then taken a year out..
    Replace that word with "sociable" and your spot on. Yes, I’ve proven to be one whom lacks drive and commitment, especially when your analysing my antics in secondary school. Will that mean I should sit by and continue being that way because my history suggests that’s the way I am? NO! (We are not fixed as people and some learn the hard way)

    If all doesn't work out, yes, I will be heading back to University in September to complete my degree. There are people out there who don't carry all the best level qualifications, yet, it isn't because they weren’t "intelligent" or "sharp" enough to achieve those qualifications (always) some just didn't value their education as much as they should have. (@ That time) You will probably lambast me for saying that, with this whole; "if you weren’t motivated or driven enough @ that time, what's to say you will be now? A leopard never changes its spots!" and all that cheesy clichéd nonsense. You need to look beyond that. I know most interviewers would probably take the safe bet and turn me away; however my outlook deep down has changed and I would never allow myself to recommit that stupidity as a teenager. My whole reason for taking a gap year was in the interest of seriously looking into moving into this career, not because I’m academically lazy or de-motivated but because of the challenge it presents itself. I’m one of these people that works hard when something interests me.
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    You were told the answer, then you bang on about how long ago 'that' was, how you don't see how it matters now and how good you are. You posted this on an open internet forum and you object to people telling you how you come across and poking fun at you for getting the hump about being called a pratt.
    Your only option is to get the GCSE. If you want to continue hanging around here in the mean time, I'd suggest you wind it in, read more, listen and get a thicker skin - the Armed Forces are pretty hard banter environments. You have not been charged for any of this 24 carat solid gold advice.
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    You could have always applied whilst still at uni. I did and I am starting RTC in June.

    I think it is clear you understand why people are saying this to you and you admit you made mistakes, however, like others have said the interviewer will ask all the same questions and will not accept "that was then, this is now" answer.

    Pilot (from what i have read on these forums) is the most sought after job in the RAF and one of the hardest trades to get into. Therefore with undoubtedly far more applications than actual jobs available they are going to ditch anyone who isn't up to scratch as early as possible.

    Just food for thought.
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    It takes the same number of key depressions to type 'at' as @. One makes you look daft, one doesn't.

    Just my next 2 cents.
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    Can we please calm this down a little, starting by keeping personal insults out of it, and continuing with realising when you have been given valuable advice?
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    (Original post by RAFia)
    You could have always applied whilst still at uni. I did and I am starting RTC in June.

    I think it is clear you understand why people are saying this to you and you admit you made mistakes, however, like others have said the interviewer will ask all the same questions and will not accept "that was then, this is now" answer.

    Pilot (from what i have read on these forums) is the most sought after job in the RAF and one of the hardest trades to get into. Therefore with undoubtedly far more applications than actual jobs available they are going to ditch anyone who isn't up to scratch as early as possible.

    Just food for thought.
    Very good food for thought. You confirmed everything I've heard from speaking to people/advisors about this. I've already opted for the Royal Marines.
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    Well ive got a load of qualifications in electrics and im only 22 and i dont want to be an electrician my whole life thats why i want to join the RAF to broaden my horizons instead of running cables in someones house my whole life.
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    (Original post by Tennis_Maestro)
    " A leopard never changes its spots!" and all that cheesy clichéd nonsense. You need to look beyond that.
    Thing is, you've proven in this thread that you still have the same poor attitude. You're asking if there's a way to skip a qualification, claiming it's pointless and that they should just be able to tell you're good enough without the qualification to prove it.

    Then you say you can't be bothered to do a college course to get the GCSE, and as far as your current academics go, you've not shown any sign of changing through GCSEs, A levels or beyond. Being "sociable" is a bizarre excuse; I think I was extremely sociable through university, but that didn't stop me being able to actually get a degree in the appropriate timescale. I stand by my previous comment; it is dull to fail to realise, as a near-adult doing A levels, that your qualifications are worth putting some effort into.

    It will make you look bad to an interviewer, because you've got absolutely no evidence that you've changed in any way, because there's no sign of an upturn in your academic performance. Flying training is like doing a degree, and the RAF would be paying for it to the tune of millions; if you don't have the academic track record to look like a good risk, why would they bother?

    Taking a gap year to seriously look into kicking off this career is another odd one; if your academic year started in September, why is it already February and you haven't done anything other than look at the requirements and post here? Hundred of people manage to set themselves up to pass OASC while attending school or university, so it doesn't look particularly good that you've decided you need a year out to do it, especially when you consider that you've committed to that year out before looking in to the qualifications or requirements.

    You can say you've changed as much as you like (and I say all this as a trained interviewer!) but you need some evidence! So, I'd get back on my uni course as rapidly as I could, and find the fastest possible way to get my GCSE I needed, regardless of how much night school or self-study it required. Kids sit their GCSEs in May-June time, right? Study yourself and apply to sit the exam; you don't even need a formal course to follow.
 
 
 
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