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    (Original post by saalih)
    yes because science said plants feel pain and i believe another science counter argued that saying they don't.....pick your choice....
    We're still waiting for your side to provide some conclusive evidence .
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    We're still waiting for your side to provide some conclusive evidence .
    evidence for what?
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    Plants don't have a nervous system. Without being a rocket scientist, even I can conclude that they cannot feel pain as we would imagine it, if they can feel pain at all
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    (Original post by saalih)
    evidence for what?
    :facepalm:
    For plants feeling pain.
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    Hello, I'm an atheist. I also study philosophy and ethics (the latter part being of help to this question).

    For me, I believe that morality changes from place to place. We are a product of our environment. An example would be that if you were raised as a Christian you would (obviously) have Christian values. Atheists are a product of the influence of your parents' moral values.

    Providing the above explanation is correct, it is easy to see why some parts of the world have very different moral behaviour than other areas- an example would be polygamy and monogamy being approved/disapproved in the east/west.

    I hope this helped. I need to go to music tech now.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    It becomes second nature so I find it easy.

    Would you say it would be any more immoral for me to take the life of a human animal so that it registered as little pain as possible instead of a non human animal?
    Took a while to get round to replying, sorry.
    No, it's not more immoral. But again, unnecessary is a key word here. If it was necessary to kill them, it would not be as immoral as unnecessary killing.
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    (Original post by barks)
    Hello, I'm an atheist. I also study philosophy and ethics (the latter part being of help to this question).

    For me, I believe that morality changes from place to place. We are a product of our environment. An example would be that if you were raised as a Christian you would (obviously) have Christian values. Atheists are a product of the influence of your parents' moral values.

    Providing the above explanation is correct, it is easy to see why some parts of the world have very different moral behaviour than other areas- an example would be polygamy and monogamy being approved/disapproved in the east/west.

    I hope this helped. I need to go to music tech now.
    so you are telling me a society where honor killing is common, it is ok and moral because of the place and environment being different?
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    (Original post by saalih)
    so you are telling me a society where honor killing is common, it is ok and moral because of the place and environment being different?
    That's really badly asked. Just because it happens in that place, doesn't make it right in that place. I mean, murder and theft happen where I live but it's not right.

    You should ask "Is honour killing ok and moral in a society where it's ok and moral". In which case, you answer your own question. If it's moral for them then it's moral for them. We obviously wouldn't view it as moral because we have been brought up in an environment where it isn't moral.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    :facepalm:
    For plants feeling pain.
    http://ds9.botanik.uni-bonn.de/zellb.../neuroview.php


    http://www.department13designs.com/vegan.html

    http://plantsfeelpain.com/

    for starters
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    (Original post by Chassi)
    Took a while to get round to replying, sorry.
    No, it's not more immoral. But again, unnecessary is a key word here. If it was necessary to kill them, it would not be as immoral as unnecessary killing.
    So if I were to Kill your parents, but did so in a manner in which they didn't know death was coming and felt the minimal amount of pain this would be the same in terms of morality as taking the life of two cows?

    Although of course you'll probably care more about the former as you no doubt have stronger relationships with your parents.

    (Note, I don't intend to kill anyone...)
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    So if I were to Kill your parents, but did so in a manner in which they didn't know death was coming and felt the minimal amount of pain this would be the same in terms of morality as taking the life of two cows?

    Although of course you'll probably care more about the former as you no doubt have stronger relationships with your parents.

    (Note, I don't intend to kill anyone...)
    It ought to be the same in terms of morality. But yes, I would feel much worse if you killed my parents!
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    What you've provided is a website that doesn't say plants feel pain but instead some science and some theory (it however does differentiate between the two and isn't mis-leading).
    A parody website.
    Another parody website.

    Feel proud:

    :facepalm2:
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    What you've provided is a website that doesn't say plants feel pain but instead some science and some theory (it however does differentiate between the two and isn't mis-leading).
    A parody website.
    Another parody website.

    Feel proud:

    :facepalm2:
    i dont know you want plants to cry out loud and tell you they feel pain or what!!!
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    (Original post by saalih)
    i dont know you want plants to cry out loud and tell you they feel pain or what!!!
    straw man:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
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    Pain is caused by stimulation of nociceptors. These are not found in plants, fungi or most insects.
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    (Original post by SsEe)
    Pain is caused by stimulation of nociceptors. These are not found in plants, fungi or most insects.
    I didn't know that about (some) insects. That could mean that most insects are not sentient...

    Edit:
    Which insects out of curiosity?
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    I didn't know that about (some) insects. That could mean that most insects are not sentient...

    Edit:
    Which insects out of curiosity?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain_in_animals

    That's where I got it from (it looks well sourced!). It just gives fruit flies as an exception.

    Of course, there could be some other mechanism in place. But it hasn't been found yet. I'm not strongly convinced either way.
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    Religious ethics is bunk. The Euthyphro dilemma,anyone?
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    (Original post by tomheppy)
    Religious ethics is bunk. The Euthyphro dilemma,anyone?
    What's that? (doing an essay, can't be arsed to look it up).
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    But to many of them surely who they kill aren't innocent?
    Which is my whole point; how is it moral to kill innocents just for the sake of a religion? It's not. Which is why, in this instance and concerning this particular minority who are part of a religion, Atheists are more moral than Theists.

    I honestly can't believe you didn't make that connection :facepalm:
 
 
 
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