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    (Original post by Drunk Punx)
    You've just completely contradicted yourself. You say what I said is untrue, then tell me that the reason they do it is because of their religious beliefs... the same beliefs that come from the book, or have I missed something?
    no, i am saying some people do immorl/unethical things because of their religion but i am not talking about Islam here....

    (Original post by Drunk Punx)
    As you said, whichever I see fit. And if I get judged for it then sobeit, but it doesn't make a difference because I'll be doing something that I, and likely many others, think is the right decision to make. People have different ideas what it coems to "right" and "wrong", but when you throw religion into the mix, everything becomes a lot more blurry because then you get the preachers who believe that what they preach is fact rather than opinion, and that morals come from and are judged by "God" rather than actions based on innate rationalism.
    Following God's commandments is the right choice to bring about justice in a society, now which God or book to follow is a totally different issue.

    (Original post by Drunk Punx)
    So you are saying that you strictly follow the Qu'ran down to the last word because that is what defines your moral actions, thus you believe you will get into Heaven or wherever because of this?
    Yes, I believe that Qur'an is the last revelation to mankind and following the true teachings of Islam will get me into Heaven, God willing...It makes me a better person in this life, for which I will be rewarded in the after life, we were not created for this short life...

    Moral law is incomplete, an 80 yr old kills a 30 yr old who had little kids, the biggest punishment he can get is a death penalty!!! will that compensate those little kids losing their father at such a crucial stage of their lives? there must be another life where moral law will be justified.....
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    (Original post by saalih)
    no, i am saying some people do immorl/unethical things because of their religion but i am not talking about Islam here....
    But... you were talking about people who worship Islam, were you not? Given that we were on the subject of the people that live in an Islamic society?

    (Original post by saalih)
    Following God's commandments is the right choice to bring about justice in a society, now which God or book to follow is a totally different issue.
    Stop being so bloody authoritarian. There is no proof that "God" exists, so just leave it there. If I choose to worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster or Cthulu, that doesn't mean they exist.

    (Original post by saalih)
    Yes, I believe that Qur'an is the last revelation to mankind and following the true teachings of Islam will get me into Heaven, God willing...It makes me a better person in this life, for which I will be rewarded in the after life, we were not created for this short life...
    Dude... in the other thread, you said we were put here on this Earth to do something or other (I can't remember what. Something about goodness?) But now you're saying we don't have a purpose here? May as well kill ourselves now and save the decay then, eh?

    (Original post by saalih)
    Moral law is incomplete, an 80 yr old kills a 30 yr old who had little kids, the biggest punishment he can get is a death penalty!!! will that compensate those little kids losing their father at such a crucial stage of their lives? there must be another life where moral law will be justified.....
    The law is law, and moral or not is has to be abided (or so they'd like us to think).

    And although your case study is a good one, I'm afraid I have to disagree; every day, people are raped and killed. Entire races are wiped out by one persons' orders. Disease and plague ruins the lives of many, and no power from above can ever prevent that from happening. Point being; life is ****, so get on with it while you are still alive and make the most of what you have.

    If I thought that anything I did would give me a better chance in another life, then I'd help one old dear across the road, then sit in my room wasting away. I'd have a KDR of 1/0. (been playing too much COD) (1 good deed to 0 bad deeds).
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    (Original post by Drunk Punx)



    Dude... in the other thread, you said we were put here on this Earth to do something or other (I can't remember what. Something about goodness?) But now you're saying we don't have a purpose here? May as well kill ourselves now and save the decay then, eh?
    dude, there is a main purpose and there are branches, being good does not contradict the mai purpose, which is to worship God!!!! In fact someone worshipping God cannot be immoral also!!
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    (Original post by saalih)
    dude, there is a main purpose and there are branches, being good does not contradict the mai purpose, which is to worship God!!!! In fact someone worshipping God cannot be immoral also!!
    Now I know you're trolling.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    Now I know you're trolling.
    *high fives*
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    (Original post by saalih)
    dude, there is a main purpose and there are branches, being good does not contradict the mai purpose, which is to worship God!!!! In fact someone worshipping God cannot be immoral also!!
    Before you started preaching to me, we were having quite a decent argument. But I'm going to stop now before you make an even bigger fool of yourself. Believe in what you want, it doesn't bother me. But what does bother me is when you are certain that what you believe is fact, when it's only opinion.
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    (Original post by saalih)
    you can look at it another way, behave well for the good of humanity in this life and you will ALSO be rewarded in the after life, it is not hypocritical at all, because it also depends on the intention, if your intention is good, then you will be fully rewarded.....
    So integrity and conscience only exist due to reward?
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    Social contract theory and cultural relativism.
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    (Original post by rajandkwameali)
    So integrity and conscience only exist due to reward?
    reward is part of it, and it is only fair that when a person does something which is not easy to do, but does it because it is the right thing, and gets rewarded for it...
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    (Original post by Drunk Punx)
    Before you started preaching to me, we were having quite a decent argument. But I'm going to stop now before you make an even bigger fool of yourself. Believe in what you want, it doesn't bother me. But what does bother me is when you are certain that what you believe is fact, when it's only opinion.
    yes what i believe is a fact, i believe in a miraculous book which is divine revelation, how can i not be sure about it?
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    (Original post by saalih)
    yes what i believe is a fact, i believe in a miraculous book which is divine revelation, how can i not be sure about it?
    What are you standards for deciding what is fact and what isn't?
    For instance scientific facts are fairly strict, they have to be shown in a lab numerous times, they have to have theories relating to other facts involved, and are usually shown by inductive reasoning. They are also further verified by impartial people.

    So what criteria do you go by in deciding what a fact is?
    Can the same criteria show other things to be a fact?
    Like that the FSM exists, or another deity, which if it did exist, would contradict the existence of the one you believe in?
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    What are you standards for deciding what is fact and what isn't?
    For instance scientific facts are fairly strict, they have to be shown in a lab numerous times, they have to have theories relating to other facts involved, and are usually shown by inductive reasoning. They are also further verified by impartial people.
    whatever has been proven by science as a fact by experts on each field...

    for example
    http://www.thisistruth.org/truth.php?f=SeasAndOceans

    when such astounding facts have been mentioned 1400 years ago when the word technology did not even exist, this must have come from a divine source.....God
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    (Original post by saalih)
    whatever has been proven by science as a fact by experts on each field...

    for example
    http://www.thisistruth.org/truth.php?f=SeasAndOceans

    when such astounding facts have been mentioned 1400 years ago when the word technology did not even exist, this must have come from a divine source.....God
    Yes, that is the only explanation :awesome:
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    (Original post by saalih)
    whatever has been proven by science as a fact by experts on each field...

    for example
    http://www.thisistruth.org/truth.php?f=SeasAndOceans

    when such astounding facts have been mentioned 1400 years ago when the word technology did not even exist, this must have come from a divine source.....God
    Fantastic logic there.

    Please, do us a favour and never enter any kind of scientific community.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    Yes, that is the only explanation :awesome:
    not just that, of course the preservation of the book in it's original form and the promise that it will be..

    the fact that you can burn all religious books and wipe them off the internet and from the face of the earth yet the Qur'an is the only religious book that will be rewritten again without a change of a single word because of the amount of people memorising it, whereas no one will be able to bring back the other religious scriptures exactly the way they were....

    other things also like finding inner peace and tranquility while reading it, finding solutions to personal problems, etc. etc. of many other benefits of reciting the Qur'an makes me a firm believer that it is the word of God...
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    (Original post by Aphotic Cosmos)
    Fantastic logic there.

    Please, do us a favour and never enter any kind of scientific community.
    yes i believe the expert on the field knows better than you do....so i would rather go by his words than those who reject religion altogether
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    (Original post by saalih)
    not just that, of course the preservation of the book in it's original form and the promise that it will be..

    the fact that you can burn all religious books and wipe them off the internet and from the face of the earth yet the Qur'an is the only religious book that will be rewritten again without a change of a single word because of the amount of people memorising it, whereas no one will be able to bring back the other religious scriptures exactly the way they were....

    other things also like finding inner peace and tranquility while reading it, finding solutions to personal problems, etc. etc. of many other benefits of reciting the Qur'an makes me a firm believer that it is the word of God...
    Take a critical thinking course, and try to approach things with an open mind.

    until then:
    /thread.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    Take a critical thinking course, and try to approach things with an open mind.
    i would ask you the same, to approach Islam and Qur'an with an open mind and even if you do not accept it as the truth, you will appreciate it..

    how on earth a man living in the desert 1400 years ago, who could not read or write, give so many scientific facts that were discovered only recently???!!! someone with an open mind must at least think about this once before dismissing it...
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    (Original post by saalih)
    i would ask you the same, to approach Islam and Qur'an with an open mind and even if you do not accept it as the truth, you will appreciate it..

    how on earth a man living in the desert 1400 years ago, who could not read or write, give so many scientific facts that were discovered only recently???!!! someone with an open mind must at least think about this once before dismissing it...
    And there are all sorts of explanations that could be given. You just take yours to be the correct one.
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    Kid in red = religious fools spouting nonsense
    Dude with baby = my reaction

 
 
 
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