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    Id say it depends on the society and the situation.
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    (Original post by adamrules247)
    The Netherlands is a perfect example. A very secular, athiest society but having a child out of weblock is full of stigma over there.
    But is it a bit taboo to have sex outside of wedlock? I can believe that they are strongly for safe sex, but I find it unlikely they'd be particularly against having unmarried sex assuming it is safe.
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    I'm an atheist and i make my morals up. :-D
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    (Original post by Sithius)
    Atheist in what sense? The majority believe in some sort of 'life force' responsible for the creation of the Universe (could certainly be construed as God, though clearly not any of the ones found in the current religions.)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism
    Athiests as in: "I don't believe in anything". I think it's around 60-70% or so that are not a member of any sort of Church.
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    (Original post by adamrules247)
    Athiests as in: "I don't believe in anything". I think it's around 60-70% or so.
    The link I provided you with proves you wrong. Tough luck.
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    (Original post by Psyk)
    But is it a bit taboo to have sex outside of wedlock? I can believe that they are strongly for safe sex, but I find it unlikely they'd be particularly against having unmarried sex assuming it is safe.
    I said have a child. I don't know about out of wedlock. Safe sex (haha), in the sense you are thinking, has nothing to do with morality
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    (Original post by adamrules247)
    I said have a child. I don't know about out of wedlock. Safe sex (haha), in the sense you are thinking, has nothing to do with morality
    Yeah I know that's what you were talking about, but the OP was talking about pre-marital sex. I'm just disputing the claim that most secular societies of the past considered sex outside of marriage immoral.
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    (Original post by Sithius)
    The link I provided you with proves you wrong. Tough luck.
    Only 30% or so people are members of a church in the Netherlands. Only 20% of the population attends church reguarlly. Tough luck.
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    One way of looking at it is that ideas of "morality" come from what makes a society successful, by trial and error over the whole of human history. Anything that is shown to harm a community's progress comes to be seen as "immoral".
    For example, cannibalistic societies have generally not succeeded, and so have either abandoned this practice or died out.

    Jumpers by Tom Stoppard is interesting on this.
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    (Original post by Wardy23)
    I'm an atheist and i make my morals up. :-D
    See my post on page 1.
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    (Original post by Psyk)
    Yeah I know that's what you were talking about, but the OP was talking about pre-marital sex. I'm just disputing the claim that most secular societies of the past considered sex outside of marriage immoral.
    Well in the UK (which has a large agnostic, athiest society) sex outside marriage is still frowned upon, the recent John Terry case is a perfect example of this.
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    (Original post by adamrules247)
    Only 30% or so people are members of a church in the Netherlands. Only 20% of the population attends church reguarlly. Tough luck.
    How does that entail that '"They don't believe in anything". Did you even click on the link I posted?
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    The same as theists really, I've had plenty of them tell me what sort of things their God would or wouldn't tell them too do, so they are capable of thinking for themselves.

    The moral decisions society agrees upon aren't always rational, but if they were they would be selfish (not in a negative way).
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    There is Kant's Categorical Imperative, which is independent of religion.
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    (Original post by Sithius)
    How does that entail that '"They don't believe in anything". Did you even click on the link I posted?
    Yes I did, but simply believing in a life force means nothing and has nothing to do with morals.
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    I don't see how being religious makes you morally right...

    See one of the quotes I have in my sig. That should explain a bit.

    And I'll explain the rest here:

    Just because you are religious, it doesn't mean you have the moral highground over an Atheist. If anything, Atheists are more likely to be more morally right due to their judgement not being clouded by an irrational view that an all-knowing, all-seeing, and all-powerful being is watching them every time they so much as twitch a muscle.
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    atheist morals are just as arbitrary as religious people's.
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    (Original post by adamrules247)
    Yes I did, but simply believing in a life force means nothing and has nothing to do with morals.
    If it means nothing then why the hell would 47% of the entire population between in it? Clearly a life force responsible for the creation of the Universe holds some sentience, and therefore great value when discussing morality.
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    religion evolved as a tool for control. 'morals' too. i.e. you'll get into heaven if you pay the church (mainly in the past)

    and as the holy books are open to interpretation (both my friend and bin laden are muslims, both my grandmother and shirley phelps roper are christians - all believe they understand their respective holy books) people pick and choose which 'morals' to follow.

    why not just cut out religion and be a good person?
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    (Original post by Nashy19)
    The same as theists really, I've had plenty of them tell me what sort of things their God would or wouldn't tell them too do, so they are capable of thinking for themselves.
    :lolwut:

    Translation: Their god tells them to do something so they do it, thus proving that they are capable for thinking for themselves.

    Please tell me I've mis-interpreted this, otherwise it's one hell of a logic fail on your behalf...
 
 
 
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