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    (Original post by saalih)
    nothing was hammered into my head.....i chose Islam even though I was born in a Muslim family....

    forget me, what about those who had nothing to do with Islam
    Other people chose Islam; it's evident from your comprehension that you did not.
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    (Original post by birdsong1)
    Other people chose Islam; it's evident from your comprehension that you did not.
    oh yes i did, i lived in a place where if i wanted i could have easily left Islam, but if anything, my faith became stronger.....the joy that a Muslim feels when he recites the Qur'an, or when he prays to God, the inner peace is something i can not even describe in words......the strength of character Islam builds, the upright morality it teaches and instills is beyond explanation.....

    we are told by the Prophet Muhammad “He is not a believer who goes to sleep with a full stomach while knowing that his next door neighbour is hungry,”!!! which society teaches that? how many of those who say they do not need religion to tell them what is good or moral do such acts??? let us be real

    Among Islamic moral values one may mention: Justice, truth, honesty, honouring covenants, keeping promises, mercy, patience and perseverance in face of difficulties and calamities, bashfulness, humbleness, dignity, courage, generosity, modesty, forgiveness, controlling one’s anger, goodness to parents, looking after the needs of relatives, kindness to one’s neighbours, caring for orphans and aiding those who are desparate.

    The Prophet, also said, 'Once there was a dog wondering around, dying of
    thirst, when a prostitute saw it. She then took off her shoe and used it
    to give the dog water [out of a well]. She was granted forgiveness.
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    Morality is not concerned with any one beliefs.
    This is a haman attitude.And we should have good mrorality.Dont relate the moral value with the beliefs.Islam teaches very good marality but muslims dont have good moral value.
    So Having a good means thatr you are a good human being just.
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    (Original post by JohnGate212)
    but muslims dont have good moral value.
    So Having a good means thatr you are a good human being just.
    do not generalize.....

    I admit people can be decent regardless of their beliefs, but I also believe I am a better human being because of Islam......

    we are told by the Prophet Muhammad “He is not a believer who goes to sleep with a full stomach while knowing that his next door neighbour is hungry,”!!!

    do tell me how many atheists do such a thing or recommend others to do it?
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    this is a coomon thing every knows it.some do it and other dont.
    this depends on the person not on the religion.i kNOw Islam teaches good things.I am not against ISLAM dont think neagtive.
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    Pretty similar to theist morality, actually, as can be seen by Abraham at Sodom. Abraham defies God's will, convincing God that His intended action is immoral. This goes to show that God Himself follows a moral code, not that the moral code is whatever He says it is. This code is presumably the same for all humans.
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    (Original post by JohnGate212)
    this is a coomon thing every knows it.some do it and other dont.
    is it really common?
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    I'm an atheist and I don't believe that makes me immoral. I believe morality is something that predates the existence of religion, otherwise the human race would have been extinct long ago. My morals are based on what I believe is and isn't acceptable to do to other people, considering my own reaction to the circumstances, and what is socially acceptable.
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    (Original post by Chassi)
    I'm an atheist and I don't believe that makes me immoral. I believe morality is something that predates the existence of religion, otherwise the human race would have been extinct long ago. My morals are based on what I believe is and isn't acceptable to do to other people, considering my own reaction to the circumstances, and what is socially acceptable.
    What moral theory do you subscribe to?
    Why only humans and not non human animals?
    If society says one thing and you think another, who do you feel the authority on the matter should be?
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    What moral theory do you subscribe to?
    Why only humans and not non human animals?
    If society says one thing and you think another, who do you feel the authority on the matter should be?
    Oooh these questions hit deep guess I'll have to put my brain in gear.
    Not being much of a philosopher, I'm not 100% sure what you intend by moral theory but in general I try to ascribe to behaviours that don't harm anyone else. I believe that some form of morality is innate within everyone, and it is simply a question of choosing to ascribe to it or ignore it. It has to do a lot with a sense of empathy and wellbeing for other creatures. Or so I believe.
    Animals could perhaps have a morality I suppose, albeit a less complex one. Very few animals kill for fun, or for reasons other than survival, unlike humans. Herd animals coexist for reasons of safety, pack animals coexist because its easier to get food that way. But I believe that their behaviour is determined far more by their environment than by conscious decision.
    The last is possibly the hardest question. If people always ascribed to social norms we would still have slavery. I believe in a moral authority higher than social authority, but if I was put in a situation that demanded I choose one or the other, I don't know if I would be brave enough to stand by my personal beliefs. That would probably take a better person than me.
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    (Original post by saalih)
    is it really common?
    yes i know that i hsould help the poor people.
    Every one knows it.But i am telling you that dont think that i am against islam .I know Islam teaches very well but the muslims dont follow.

    Morality is in our nature.
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    (Original post by JohnGate212)
    yes i know that i hsould help the poor people.
    Every one knows it.But i am telling you that dont think that i am against islam .I know Islam teaches very well but the muslims dont follow.

    Morality is in our nature.
    true, morality is in our nature, the difference is that we say God put that in our nature...

    helping the poor is very general but how many people think about specifics such as not sleeping with a full stomach while the neighbor is hungry!!!!

    i also do agree that unfortunately many Muslims left the true teachings of Islam, they became materialistic/western society suckups/apologetics
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    (Original post by saalih)
    nothing was hammered into my head.....i chose Islam even though I was born in a Muslim family....
    I doubt that you did. Were you taught about Hinduism as a child? Did you ever consider Jainism as a legitimate religion? Or were you taken to the mosque and given only one practical choice?

    forget me, what about those who had nothing to do with Islam, in fact some of them were anti-Islam (http://www.scribd.com/doc/17637/The-...by-Gary-Miller) and chose Islam on their own, without any pressure......
    I've read that link before. I remained distinctly unimpressed.

    remove any cultural history and anything you want, every creation in the universe points towards God......if you cannot see it, that is not my problem....
    So tell me - why would god make a message so hard for some people to get that even people who try and look at it objectively and with an open mind find it impossible to see? Does that fit in with the idea of a just god?
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    (Original post by Chassi)
    if I was put in a situation that demanded I choose one or the other, I don't know if I would be brave enough to stand by my personal beliefs. That would probably take a better person than me.
    here is where the belief in the afterlife plays a crucial part, knowing that this life is too short and sacrificing personal gain for the right thing will benefit us in the ultimate life, the hereafter, which is eternal, will make us brave in such situations.....
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    (Original post by ForeverIsMyName)

    So tell me - why would god make a message so hard for some people to get that even people who try and look at it objectively and with an open mind find it impossible to see? Does that fit in with the idea of a just god?
    I have looked into other religions and faiths and remain convinced that Islam is the truth....I also believe Judaism & Christianity were true religions for their time...

    God is not unjust, if the message was very easy then there would be no one who rejects the truth......A person has to search for the truth and dig deep, why else were we given a mind for? But there is another factor that makes it hard for a human being to accept the truth and conform to it, a human being wants everything easy does not want to live by rules and regulations, a society where he was brought up feeds such ideas and information making it much harder for him to change..it only takes a brave man to submit to God, but first he has to believe in God....
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    (Original post by saalih)
    I have looked into other religions and faiths and remain convinced that Islam is the truth....I also believe Judaism & Christianity were true religions for their time...
    I think that is just because of your upbringing, and were you brought up a Hindu, you'd probably be convinced of that as well.

    God is not unjust, if the message was very easy then there would be no one who rejects the truth......A person has to search for the truth and dig deep, why else were we given a mind for? But there is another factor that makes it hard for a human being to accept the truth and conform to it, a human being wants everything easy does not want to live by rules and regulations, a society where he was brought up feeds such ideas and information making it much harder for him to change..it only takes a brave man to submit to God, but first he has to believe in God....
    Hey, I'll live by rules and regulations if I think there is a god. But the evidence doesn't point that way, so I don't believe. Any 'evidence' that religious people provide doesn't tend to cut it.
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    (Original post by Chassi)
    Oooh these questions hit deep guess I'll have to put my brain in gear.
    Not being much of a philosopher, I'm not 100% sure what you intend by moral theory but in general I try to ascribe to behaviours that don't harm anyone else. I believe that some form of morality is innate within everyone, and it is simply a question of choosing to ascribe to it or ignore it. It has to do a lot with a sense of empathy and wellbeing for other creatures. Or so I believe.
    Animals could perhaps have a morality I suppose, albeit a less complex one. Very few animals kill for fun, or for reasons other than survival, unlike humans. Herd animals coexist for reasons of safety, pack animals coexist because its easier to get food that way. But I believe that their behaviour is determined far more by their environment than by conscious decision.
    The last is possibly the hardest question. If people always ascribed to social norms we would still have slavery. I believe in a moral authority higher than social authority, but if I was put in a situation that demanded I choose one or the other, I don't know if I would be brave enough to stand by my personal beliefs. That would probably take a better person than me.
    That's interesting. What I really meant with animals (I wasn't clear) was, you said to cause the least harm to other people. Now what personhood is or isn't is another debate, but it's generally taken to mean human. So do you think part of being a moral agent (following what you say is the moral thing to do) includes how you treat animals?

    And as you seem to enjoy this sort of thing:
    1)A rape victim is in a police station, and pictures of her naked need to be taken for evidence (lets say she has brusies on her or something).

    A policeman who shouldn't, manages to get his hands on these photos.
    He can show them to his mates, or get rid of them.
    If he does show them to his mates he'll get rid of them shortly afterwards (so that there's no evidence he did it).
    Basically no-one will know.
    So the rape victim won't know these sensitive photos of her have been circulated.

    Is getting hold of them/showing them to his mates wrong?




    A general problem:
    2)A train is going along with no breaks, it will hit two men tied to the tracks killing them.
    You can change it so it's going to hit one man.
    They're too far away for you or anyone, to untie.
    Is it acceptable to do nothing?
    Is it acceptable to change it so the one man dies?
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    (Original post by ForeverIsMyName)
    I think that is just because of your upbringing, and were you brought up a Hindu, you'd probably be convinced of that as well.



    Hey, I'll live by rules and regulations if I think there is a god. But the evidence doesn't point that way, so I don't believe. Any 'evidence' that religious people provide doesn't tend to cut it.
    yes upbringing does have an effect, and it is the case with you also..

    But assuming if i was brought up a Hindu I would be convinced of it is something i do not agree with, because Hindu scriptures have been changed throughout history.....I simply cannot adhere to a book that has been manipulted by men.....How can a book from God be subject to so many changes and not preserved? The Only religious book that claims it is from God and has not been changed at all, not one word, is the Qur'an, and God has promised in the Qur'an to keep it unchanged. This itself is a significant advantage Qur'an has over other religious scriptures....

    As I said before, those who do not believe in God would want God Himself to come in front of them and tell them He is God and even then they would not believe, it is something they are not ready to accept no matter what....
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    (Original post by saalih)
    yes upbringing does have an effect, and it is the case with you also..
    I was religious, and now I'm not. I think you have just accepted the first answers that you've been given.

    But assuming if i was brought up a Hindu I would be convinced of it is something i do not agree with, because Hindu scriptures have been changed throughout history.....
    1) Have they? Which ones?
    2) Which is more likely to be correct, the 1st edition of a book, or the revised 10th edition? And why?

    As I said before, those who do not believe in God would want God Himself to come in front of them and tell them He is God and even then they would not believe, it is something they are not ready to accept no matter what....
    Do you genuinely believe that? I'm just looking for some clear evidence. What you have presented me with has been crap.
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    At one time it was morally acceptable to burn catholics at the stake
    at one time it was morally acceptable to burn protestants at the stake

    morality is a moveable feast.
 
 
 
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