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Did the US really "save our ass" in WW2? watch

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    (Original post by flugelr)
    The Germans could never have taken the UK. They couldn't control the skies and it would have been (almost) impossible for them to take the UK.

    Supposing the US had not entered the war then the situation would have been (in March 1942):

    Russians, having stopped the final German advance on December 5th 1941 (before the US entered the war), would be slowly pushing the Germans back. Their industry would be building up. All this would happen, but would take maybe a few more months to complete.

    Having postponed Operation Sealion on 17th September 1940, the final units earmarked for the Operation were re-directed on February 13th 1942. Britain would be disarray after the fall of Singapore on 15th February 1942.

    Operations in North Africa were mixed. No advances or retreats in the future.

    British industry would be in tatters as would the army. We wouldn't be able to get the resources to manufacture new goods.

    Now, the most common arguments I hear about how the US saved the UK and my responses:


    In wargames conducted at RMA Sandhurst in 1974 by the generals (UK and German) who would have commanded in real life, they found the Germans could make a beachhead, but couldn't expand it. The Royal Navy could cut off the supplies and the Germans couldn't get past the GHQ line.

    They could not have taken the UK, however, the UK could not have attacked Western Europe at the time.

    We could have re-grouped, but it would have taken time. At least 8 months to reach a minimum standard. After all, we still had an empire.


    Overlord might not have been needed. We could have advanced slowly, but inexorably, through Italy for example.

    The Russians would have advanced to Berlin without us. It would have taken at least a year longer, but it would have probably happened.

    Operation Overlord wouldn't have happened without Operation Fortitude or the ULTRA intelligence group - both British planned and executed.


    What if the UK "Tube Alloys" program invented them first? US and Germany were not the only ones making atomic bombs you know.

    Indeed, the US were only able to make such a huge technological “jump” so soon after starting the Manhattan Project because of the Tube Alloys program.


    The Lend-Lease plan started at the end of October 1941 with shipments to the UK. By this stage we had won the Battle of Britain and Sealion had already been stopped.

    It is very unlikely, nigh on impossible that we would have fallen. We had air support, we had the biggest, most powerful navy and the Germans would not have been able to advance past the GHQ line.
    I don't know who you are but you pretty much owned his side of the dabate. Here. Have some rep.
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    I know i'll get bombarded for this, but technically speaking america did end the war, as they got japan to surrender through the use of fission bombs. having said that they certainly didnt save the UK, in comparison with the efforts of the USSR and the UK, america did very little in mainland europe
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    American money and Soviet blood did.
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    Well, the certainly shortened the war, but also broadened it. Were it not for US policy towards Japan, I doubt that Japan would ever have entered WWII, or to be precise taken on Britain, France, The Netherlands, etc... whilst they were still heavily engaged in China...


    And of course American isolationism was as much, if not even more to blame than British and French appeasement in leading to war with Germany and Italy in the first instance...
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    They might have saved us from total economic destruction, but socially/militarily I'm pretty sure we'd have survived on our own. Many sources state that Hitler had even abandoned his plans to invade Britain before that Battle of Britain had even concluded, as he severely underestimated British resolve and believed we could be worn down through aerial attacks.

    Once Hitler invaded Russia, the Nazis already had too much on their hands. American intervention revitalised the British and its remaining allied forces, allowing Operation Overlord (as well as invasions in Southern Europe). Ultimately this sped up the process.

    Though this is mere speculation, I think it's a common misconception that the Soviets would have easily beaten the Nazis with or without the Western front. Had Hitler been able to concentrate his forces on the one (Eastern) front, the war may have been prolonged by many, many years - perhaps even to the point of a stalemate. However, in this event the Nazis would have been doomed to lose anyway as nations like the UK would have had time to rebuild their forces and open up a (belated) second front.


    So... to answer the question... no I don't think the US "saved" us, but their involvement was crucial to a relatively quick and decisive end to the war.
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    (Original post by Texan88)
    South of Denmark, east or Belgium and France, west of Poland, and North of Austria and Switzerland. Go screw yourself
    I bet you used google.
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    The Allies would have won the war without the US, certainly. As has been mentioned, though, the entrance of the US into the war shortened it considerably, and with those months or years of war not fought comes British lives not lost, and places of industry not annihilated. The US did not "save the UK's ass" in the sense of there not being a UK if it weren't for the US, but had the US not entered the war, it's likely that Great Britain's economic and political status would not quite be what it is today.
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    Ahhh, gotta love this topic.

    I have to ask, why are you so ridiculously bitter about it? To start, I see no reason for any American to say we "saved your ass" unless there's already an argument going on.

    Even if we didn't necessarily "save" you (though you don't know what would have happened in an alternate history where we didn't help), we certainly made your job a lot easier. It was our involvement that allowed you to actually fight on other fronts. D-Day couldn't have happened without us, nor could the liberation of Italy. And don't even get me started on Japan, I can't imagine the UK ever trying to tackle them under those circumstances.

    It is true that the Soviets had the largest contribution, but their motives were much different than ours. They weren't exactly "good guys" if you know what I mean, what with them and the Nazis dividing Poland between each other. They never would have fought Germany had they not had to, they were acting strictly out of self-interest. As for the US on the other hand, we actually wanted to help you. We didn't need to fight Germany, Japan was the only country that was a threat to us. And had it not been for our involvement, the USSR would have conquered all of Europe, and God knows what the world would look like today had that happened.

    I really hate that so many British people like to deride our contribution to the war after all both of our countries went through together. It's petty and ignorant, and it needs to stop.

    Oh, and we didn't jump in "at the last minute" to "steal your glory." We were in there for four years.


    (Original post by Stomm)
    Well, the certainly shortened the war, but also broadened it. Were it not for US policy towards Japan, I doubt that Japan would ever have entered WWII, or to be precise taken on Britain, France, The Netherlands, etc... whilst they were still heavily engaged in China...


    And of course American isolationism was as much, if not even more to blame than British and French appeasement in leading to war with Germany and Italy in the first instance...
    How did our isolationism lead to anything?

    Also, Japan also would most likely have attacked European colonies or Australia at some point. China wasn't much of an opponent to them.
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    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    I really hate that so many British people like to deride our contribution to the war after all both of our countries went through together. It's petty and ignorant, and it needs to stop.

    Oh, and we didn't jump in "at the last minute" to "steal your glory." We were there in there for four years.
    it's suprisingly widespread. people here tend to be quite happy to **** off the UK but whenever it comes to WWII (and almost exclusively WWII) people suddenly switch to blind patriot mode. i've even seen history students do it. pretty funny, really.
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    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    Ahhh, gotta love this topic.

    I have to ask, why are you so ridiculously bitter about it? To start, I see no reason for any American to say we "saved your ass" unless there's already an argument going on.

    Even if we didn't necessarily "save" you (though you don't know what would have happened in an alternate history where we didn't help), we certainly made your job a lot easier. It was our involvement that allowed you to actually fight on other fronts. D-Day couldn't have happened without us, nor could the liberation of Italy. And don't even get me started on Japan, I can't imagine the UK ever trying to tackle them under those circumstances.

    It is true that the Soviets had the largest contribution, but their motives were much different than ours. They weren't exactly "good guys" if you know what I mean, what with them and the Nazis dividing Poland between each other. They never would have fought Germany had they not had to, they were acting strictly out of self-interest. As for the US on the other hand, we actually wanted to help you. We didn't need to fight Germany, Japan was the only country that was a threat to us. And had it not been for our involvement, the USSR would have conquered all of Europe, and God knows what the world would look like today had that happened.

    I really hate that so many British people like to deride our contribution to the war after all both of our countries went through together. It's petty and ignorant, and it needs to stop.

    Oh, and we didn't jump in "at the last minute" to "steal your glory." We were in there for four years.



    How did our isolationism lead to anything?

    Also, Japan also would most likely have attacked European colonies or Australia at some point. China wasn't much of an opponent to them.
    Erm Germany declared war on the United States first not the other way round, if you had done nothing, and they'd won, they'd have come after ya!!
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    (Original post by Necro Defain)
    Erm Germany declared war on the United States first not the other way round, if you had done nothing, and they'd won, they'd have come after ya!!
    They declared war on us without the capability to follow through with it. And they never would have been able to invade the US, it would have been a logistical nightmare. Especially after being weakened by the *hypothetical* submission of all of Europe.
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    (Original post by Artymess)
    I know i'll get bombarded for this, but technically speaking america did end the war, as they got japan to surrender through the use of fission bombs. having said that they certainly didnt save the UK, in comparison with the efforts of the USSR and the UK, america did very little in mainland europe
    Fission bombs weren't created through solely the efforts of the USA, it was actually a collaboration at the very least between Canada, the USA and Britain as far as I remember not to mention scientists such as Einstein who were originally from countries which later became occupied by the Germans!
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    (Original post by RiddleMeThis)
    I bet you used google.

    I speak German well enough to get myself around, my favorite track in the world is the Nordschleife and I love german culture and cuisine so no I didn't use google. I can also point out Iraq, Afghanistan, England, and pretty much every other major country in the world because I payed attention in geography class.
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    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    They declared war on us without the capability to follow through with it. And they never would have been able to invade the US, it would have been a logistical nightmare. Especially after being weakened by the *hypothetical* submission of all of Europe.
    Well, not really if Hitler would have won then it would not be that strange to imagine a few years later Hitler taking America.

    So no, America went to war when Germany declared war on America, hence why it was self interest.

    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    It is true that the Soviets had the largest contribution, but their motives were much different than ours. They weren't exactly "good guys" if you know what I mean, what with them and the Nazis dividing Poland between each other. They never would have fought Germany had they not had to, they were acting strictly out of self-interest. As for the US on the other hand, we actually wanted to help you. We didn't need to fight Germany, Japan was the only country that was a threat to us. And had it not been for our involvement, the USSR would have conquered all of Europe, and God knows what the world would look like today had that happened.
    Poland isn't really a improtant country. That is actually incorrect, certainly the Russian military did make lots of plans for a pre emptive attack on Germany. Actually, US came in so late that I don't actually believe that. Certainly, UK needed help at start of the war not the end.

    Hmm, to be fair USSR could have taken the whole of Germany, as it was the first to reach Berlin. It was much later that the USSR started to take control of eastern europe.

    P.S. But, lol US brainwashes the citizens to thinking that the US are always the good guys. Yet, US history is of racism, genocide, slavery and finally war. Good guys don't drop two nuclear weapons on two big cities.
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    (Original post by Simplicity)
    Well, not really if Hitler would have won then it would not be that strange to imagine a few years later Hitler taking America.

    So no, America went to war when Germany declared war on America, hence why it was self interest.


    Poland isn't really a improtant country. That is actually incorrect, certainly the Russian military did make lots of plans for a pre emptive attack on Germany. Actually, US came in so late that I don't actually believe that. Certainly, UK needed help at start of the war not the end.

    Hmm, to be fair USSR could have taken the whole of Germany, as it was the first to reach Berlin. It was much later that the USSR started to take control of eastern europe.

    P.S. But, lol US brainwashes the citizens to thinking that the US are always the good guys. Yet, US history is of racism, genocide, slavery and finally war. Good guys don't drop two nuclear weapons on two big cities.

    You could switch that to the Uk and it would pretty much be correct still
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    To a certain extent they did but theyve been fed a lot of propaganda over it. Britain was very much on its arse and there was a huge threat that the germans could invade. who knows if the germans could have pulled it off but in europe the british army was at its end, and the japanese ran the show in the east.

    Soviets won the war but the Americans played their part, and they ended it with Japan. Remember that after Berlin fell the war was still going on, on the other side of the world and the British were involved in that.
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    (Original post by Necro Defain)
    Fission bombs weren't created through solely the efforts of the USA, it was actually a collaboration at the very least between Canada, the USA and Britain as far as I remember not to mention scientists such as Einstein who were originally from countries which later became occupied by the Germans!
    Einstein didn't actually work on the bomb, however he did give support to the program. Also, Einstein was German, however the Nazis didn't like Einstein and so he went to America.
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    (Original post by Texan88)
    I speak German well enough to get myself around, my favorite track in the world is the Nordschleife and I love german culture and cuisine so no I didn't use google. I can also point out Iraq, Afghanistan, England, and pretty much every other major country in the world because I payed attention in geography class.

    ahhh zee germans!!

    I am partial to a little German myself, Ich bin ein Berliner and all that!

    lol gerry rotters!
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    (Original post by xmarilynx)
    Nah. They just came in at last minute and stole our glory :holmes:
    Yeah this.
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    (Original post by Texan88)
    You could switch that to the Uk and it would pretty much be correct still
    Yeah. But, lol. It just seems there is a view that the US is superior and that it will save the world, hence Afganistan and Iraq. Yet, both are in a bad civil war.

    P.S. Lol, but in America people say it was capitalism that made America successful, but in a way it was slaver and war.
 
 
 
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