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Law student, arrested for being drunk and disorderly, issued with £80 penalty... watch

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    Will this obstruct me from pursuing a career at the Bar or as a solicitor? I am trying to ascertain whether enhanced CRB checks are performed on budding lawyers, but to no avail, and apparently the penalty notice will only appear on an enhanced disclosure.

    Many thanks.
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    you're ******, i know someone who graduated from LSE and got rejected everywhere
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    your careers over.
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    oh.dear.
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    (Original post by Green Jelly)
    Will this obstruct me from pursuing a career at the Bar or as a solicitor? I am trying to ascertain whether enhanced CRB checks are performed on budding lawyers, but to no avail, and apparently the penalty notice will only appear on an enhanced disclosure.

    Many thanks.
    I can't say whether it will come up or not but you are obliged to disclose it from what I understand.

    Since you will disclosing a character/suitability issue (i know its not in the real world, but what can you do) - you will then have to:
    - Provide full details of what happened
    - Provide 2? extra references (might be more or less)
    - Both referees would have to know the full details and they would have to acknowledge that.

    - Your tutor's reference would have to include acknowledgment of the incident too.

    This is when you are applying to the relevent professional body.

    The only real way to know whether you have to disclose it is to pay £10 to your local police force and get a full PNC check done. (search google, they dont allow you to do it over the police counter anymore, its a process through the post, you have to provide photocopies of your passport/DL and it can take up to 40 days to arrive).

    If it is on the PNC, then most definately you should declare it.

    Its not definate that they would do a check on you, but if they did it most certainly will include anything on a PNC.

    Please bear in mind I am not a lawyer, nor am I studying law. I just happen to know this from assisting a friend who was in a similar position, but it was with a different professional body and the process could vary slightly.
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    (Original post by Green Jelly)
    Will this obstruct me from pursuing a career at the Bar or as a solicitor? I am trying to ascertain whether enhanced CRB checks are performed on budding lawyers, but to no avail, and apparently the penalty notice will only appear on an enhanced disclosure.

    Many thanks.
    I would just like to add something I forgot in my previous post.

    If you declare it, by no means does it mean you are doomed or your career is over. Forget the above posts.

    You have every right to challenge it, explain the circumstances etc. and if you get good supporting references you have every chance in succeeding. Just be honest.

    But this begs the question - why the **** didn't you challenge the FPN? You would have had a chance of getting away with it. In the case you didn't you'd have paid similar fine (maybe a bit more) + some other small fees. If your solicitor does his job, he can even bring them down and you can then pay the fine in installments of £2/£5 a week if you feel like it.
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    Every record appears.. its not the CRB's discretion its your university/employers.

    This is just a scenario but its true:
    If you where arrested for assault charged or not and it appears on your CRB your employer decides from your references etc whether to allow you to do the job.
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    (Original post by Johnthebaptist1)
    I would just like to add something I forgot in my previous post.

    If you declare it, by no means does it mean you are doomed or your career is over. Forget the above posts.

    You have every right to challenge it, explain the circumstances etc. and if you get good supporting references you have every chance in succeeding. Just be honest.

    But this begs the question - why the **** didn't you challenge the FPN? You would have had a chance of getting away with it. In the case you didn't you'd have paid similar fine (maybe a bit more) + some other small fees. If your solicitor does his job, he can even bring them down and you can then pay the fine in installments of £2/£5 a week if you feel like it.
    The exact text of the Penalty Notice:

    You (offence particulars)

    "Were drunk and disorderly in a public place. Waving your arms around, pointing at security staff and swearing."

    What actually happened was, I was ejected from a club for being slightly too drunk. The bouncer was being unreasonable and decided to retain my jacket for NO reason. It was freezing, so I asked her nicely for it. I was thrown out of the club alone and I didn't want to pay for a taxi alone, so needed my jacket to walk the 40 minute walk. She wouldn't give it to me. I walked to a nearby police car and asked them if she had a legal right to withhold it, but I can't remember what they said, all I remember is that they were being patronising, which annoyed me, and I remember saying 'Look, I am more intelligent than you, so whatever'. Then I walked back to the door and demanded my jacket back from her. She flipped and said 'You are a f***ing b!tch' and pushed me against the wall. This was unprovoked, but I have no witnesses. So I started pointing at her and calling her a b!tch back. Then the two police officers I said I was more intelligent than ran over and arrested me. I did not resist arrest. I was taken to the station. They demanded my details, I would not provide them because they would not give me an explanation as to why I was being arrested, other than saying it was for being 'drunk and disorderly'. So they threw me in a police cell, two women stripped me naked and forced me to wear a paper suit and I was kept in overnight. The next afternoon they issued me with a penalty notice, which I have still not paid. Do I stand a chance of appealing this? I still have until Monday next week before the 21 day period to pay it is over. I wanted to appeal at the beginning because I was utterly incensed by how I had been treated, but I didn't think I had a leg to stand on as I had no witnesses.
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    They photographed me, fingerprinted me and took my DNA so I assume I am on the PNC.
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    (Original post by abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz)
    you're ******, i know someone who graduated from LSE and got rejected everywhere
    Please could you explain their exact circumstances? Was it for D&D? Were they convicted? Or did they just get fined?
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    (Original post by Green Jelly)
    Please could you explain their exact circumstances? Was it for D&D? Were they convicted? Or did they just get fined?
    i would definitely appeal :yep: explain what happened, whats the worst that can happen?
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    (Original post by Green Jelly)
    They photographed me, fingerprinted me and took my DNA so I assume I am on the PNC.
    That doesn't mean you are on the PNC as a convicted criminal. It just means the police have your photo, fingerprint and DNA.

    Secondly, reading the above facts it seems like you definately have a case.

    Do not pay, go to a solicitor. Preferably through soemone you know/uses the solicitor regularly or knows well.

    It doens't matter about the date on the FPN if you are going to challenge it. You don't have to accept it.

    They will have to provide evidence is all I am saying. I can't really say much more than that. I'm sure others on here might be able to help you better.

    Did you give a police interview?

    The best advice I can give you is definately go to a solicitor and get sound legal advice.

    This is something that can affect your career prospects so challenge it all costs. Like i said before at most, you'll end up with a £100 fine rather than £80 (or even less maybe) and you'll have to pay some costs. If it came down to that, your solicitor will argue costs and claim you are student with no regular income and to allow you to pay it by standing order @ £5 p/w.

    But go to a solicitor, you have every chance of being found not guilty.
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    (Original post by Johnthebaptist1)
    That doesn't mean you are on the PNC as a convicted criminal. It just means the police have your photo, fingerprint and DNA.

    Secondly, reading the above facts it seems like you definitely have a case.

    Do not pay, go to a solicitor. Preferably through soemone you know/uses the solicitor regularly or knows well.

    They will have to provide evidence is all I am saying. I can't really say much more than that. I'm sure others on here might be able to help you better.

    Did you give a police interview?

    The best advice I can give you is [b]definitely go to a solicitor and get sound legal advice.[/i]

    This is something that can affect your career prospects so challenge it all costs. Like i said before at most, you'll end up with a £100 fine rather than £80 (or even less maybe) and you'll have to pay some costs. If it came down to that, your solicitor will argue costs and claim you are student with no regular income and to allow you to pay it by standing order @ £5 p/w.

    But go to a solicitor, you have every chance of being found not guilty.
    No they refused to interview me, or listen to any attempt for me to explain my version of events. The duty solicitor told me the next day that D&D is a type of offence which does not require the suspect to be interviewed. As soon as I got the station I demanded to speak to a solicitor, they wouldn't let me. They told me the next day that it was because I refused to give my details, and that I cannot speak to a solicitor until I provide them. Is that true?

    The arresting officers actually quoted back my 'I'm more intelligent than you' comment to me in the police car on the way to the station, no witnesses, but that just proves it was a revenge arrest. It's my word against theirs, and the maximum fine is a £1000 penalty, and a criminal conviction. They said that a penalty charge notice is less harmful to career prospects. The duty sergeant also commented that he 'wouldn't advise me' to appeal the notice, whatever that suggests.
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    (Original post by Green Jelly)
    Will this obstruct me from pursuing a career at the Bar or as a solicitor? I am trying to ascertain whether enhanced CRB checks are performed on budding lawyers, but to no avail, and apparently the penalty notice will only appear on an enhanced disclosure.

    Many thanks.
    Someone my old law teacher knows had the same sort of thing from when she was younger, she became a top end lawyer or something & it was all fine, so fingers crossed to you!
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    (Original post by jenny_flum)
    Someone my old law teacher knows had the same sort of thing from when she was younger, she became a top end lawyer or something & it was all fine, so fingers crossed to you!
    Oh God I hope you are right, I didn't even WANT to go out that night, and I've been drunk about 3 times since July last year as I was making an effort to drink less (used it to 'escape' from depression) - but my housemates insisted and I didn't want to be a recluse so I went along and that is what bloody happened. If you knew about my life story you would agree I am probably one of the most unlucky people living in the developed world.
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    (Original post by Green Jelly)
    The exact text of the Penalty Notice:

    You (offence particulars)

    "Were drunk and disorderly in a public place. Waving your arms around, pointing at security staff and swearing."

    What actually happened was, I was ejected from a club for being slightly too drunk. The bouncer was being unreasonable and decided to retain my jacket for NO reason. It was freezing, so I asked her nicely for it. I was thrown out of the club alone and I didn't want to pay for a taxi alone, so needed my jacket to walk the 40 minute walk. She wouldn't give it to me. I walked to a nearby police car and asked them if she had a legal right to withhold it, but I can't remember what they said, all I remember is that they were being patronising, which annoyed me, and I remember saying 'Look, I am more intelligent than you, so whatever'. Then I walked back to the door and demanded my jacket back from her. She flipped and said 'You are a f***ing b!tch' and pushed me against the wall. This was unprovoked, but I have no witnesses. So I started pointing at her and calling her a b!tch back. Then the two police officers I said I was more intelligent than ran over and arrested me. I did not resist arrest. I was taken to the station. They demanded my details, I would not provide them because they would not give me an explanation as to why I was being arrested, other than saying it was for being 'drunk and disorderly'. So they threw me in a police cell, two women stripped me naked and forced me to wear a paper suit and I was kept in overnight. The next afternoon they issued me with a penalty notice, which I have still not paid. Do I stand a chance of appealing this? I still have until Monday next week before the 21 day period to pay it is over. I wanted to appeal at the beginning because I was utterly incensed by how I had been treated, but I didn't think I had a leg to stand on as I had no witnesses.
    :eek:
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    Yeah I know, it was horrible. My only pride at that moment was, crumpled on the floor in front of two horrible women wearing latex gloves, that after they made it clear I had absolutely no choice in the matter, I stated 'Well I don't care about being naked, I'm proud of my body'. They were both fatties. Juvenile, I know, but I have to derive some joy in such a disgusting turn of events.
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    You are asked on application forms whether you have been convicted of an offence - not about warnings/cautions/fines. You haven't been convicted of anything; if you had been, you would be screwed, as it stands it's unlikely it will ever come up. But a warning/caution will probably be on the CRB and you should get a solicitor, top ones run pro bono sessions with a partner which would cost you a shed load otherwise - then you can get a cheaper but decent firm for action, but big firm names frighten.
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    (Original post by TerryTerry)
    You are asked on application forms whether you have been convicted of an offence - not about warnings/cautions/fines. You haven't been convicted of anything; if you had been, you would be screwed, as it stands it's unlikely it will ever come up. But a warning/caution will probably be on the CRB and you should get a solicitor, top ones run pro bono sessions with a partner which would cost you a shed load otherwise - then you can get a cheaper but decent firm for action, but big firm names frighten.
    Thanks for your post.

    There is a chance of me being convicted though, if I do appeal, right? Are you suggesting I appeal? Or are you advising me to get a solicitor so I can ask them whether a fine is ever likely to come up?
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    Just be more responsible and drink less next time. A drunk man fell on me the other day do you know how piss taking that was. Good luck with the appealing.
 
 
 
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