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    (Original post by IheartASOS)
    Now this got me thinking: why are some homosexual individuals inclined to be so blatant about their sexuality?
    Are they though? Even if they are, why is it a bad thing? It's a huge part of who they are, and they want to express it.

    Also, why don't heterosexual people have a 'straight pride' festival?
    Because straight people haven't encountered years of abuse/discrimination for their sexuality. Now society has embraced homosexuality as normal, it is no longer something to be ashamed of. = Pride. (Note: Manchester's Gay Pride is sooooo much fun)

    two of my best friends are gay, but with them, I also find that they engage in PDAs far more frequently than my straight friends. Discuss
    I think that's just your friends. Straight couples are the worst for PDA's in my opinion.
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    (Original post by lightburns)
    LGBT individuals are abnormal in the same way that a physics professor is abnormal, or someone with ginger hair is abnormal. Just the fact that a minority of the population is like that.

    What I am meaning is that when you all get together, you are now in that group all LGBT - LGBT is now the norm!

    The reason for doing so, when physicists and redheads don't is that LGBT people get more discriminatory and prejudice problems from the rest of society.
    im afraid your analogies fail. physics professor is a career, and ginger hair is a hair colour... it doesnt define you, or change your behaviour. talking about gays being abnormal, we are talking about abnormal behaviour. remembering always that you are the one that brought up the term "normal".

    yes, that follows too. shouting about how gay you are is a surefire way to... what, exactly? if you dont want to be discriminated against, is drawing attention to your abnormality in big, annoying ways really the best way to go about it?

    to clarify to everyone : i have no problem with gays, its natural and you cant do anything about it. that, however, doesnt make it normal, and no amount of "pride parades" will change that.
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    (Original post by toanythingtaboo)
    I do, however, feel passionately about the amount of discrimination going on. Having the same rights as everyone else is hardly asking a lot. I guess I show my pride through constructive action, not prancing around in a neon thong to Cher.
    theres no such thing as the right to not be offended.
    there are no laws that apply only to gays. gays have equal rights.
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    Are hetro's flaunting their sexuality when regaling tales of banging that fit blonde or talking about man events like the big game? No. Yet if a gay guy talks about kissing a dude at a Lady Gaga gig its all "OMGZ flauting their sexuality much!?".
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    (Original post by DJ AgnieszkaA)
    theres no such thing as the right to not be offended.
    there are no laws that apply only to gays. gays have equal rights.
    I'm not really sure what you're getting at?

    When I said 'rights' I meant civil rights. Thankfully, the UK is far further invested in equality than the US...but it's still not entirely equal (ie. although civil partnerships share most rights as a civil marriage, they are yet to be classed as one).
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    (Original post by toanythingtaboo)
    I'm not really sure what you're getting at?

    When I said 'rights' I meant civil rights. Thankfully, the UK is far further invested in equality than the US...but it's still not entirely equal (ie. although civil partnerships share most rights as a civil marriage, they are yet to be classed as one).
    agree on that one actually. dont think church should be forced to marry gays, but dont think the state should discriminate due to sexuality.
    however, i dont think laws such as "equality bills", like forcing employers to accept peoples sexuality is cool... its a private situation, and thats not going to help anyway. this is what a lot of people mean when they say rights, also a lot of people say we need gay pride parades to "stop discrimination". yeah. because having a big "**** you" parade is going to change the minds of the 10% of people who give a **** either way.............. thats probably what i was getting at, although i dont really remember tbh
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    (Original post by DJ AgnieszkaA)
    im afraid your analogies fail. physics professor is a career, and ginger hair is a hair colour... it doesnt define you, or change your behaviour. talking about gays being abnormal, we are talking about abnormal behaviour. remembering always that you are the one that brought up the term "normal".

    yes, that follows too. shouting about how gay you are is a surefire way to... what, exactly? if you dont want to be discriminated against, is drawing attention to your abnormality in big, annoying ways really the best way to go about it?

    to clarify to everyone : i have no problem with gays, its natural and you cant do anything about it. that, however, doesnt make it normal, and no amount of "pride parades" will change that.
    You misunderstand my point. I know that homosexuality is a part of someone, and the other examples are just add-ons.

    Shouting about how gay you are is to bring the community together. The discriminated need support. They need a bunch of people to go "hey, look at us, we're gay, and that's ok! We're proud of who we are!" and the discriminated can also build their own self-confidence. Pride parades imo are for bringing the LGBT community together, and not for anything else.

    There is no need to be 'normal'. Everyone is abnormal in some way or another. You're kinder than the majority? You're abnormal. You're more violent than the majority? You're abnormal. There is no problem with homosexuality being 'abnormal' - heterosexuality is the majority and is therefore the norm. No problem with that. My only point about 'normality' was the positive effect of being around like people.
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    (Original post by lightburns)
    You misunderstand my point. I know that homosexuality is a part of someone, and the other examples are just add-ons.

    Shouting about how gay you are is to bring the community together. The discriminated need support. They need a bunch of people to go "hey, look at us, we're gay, and that's ok! We're proud of who we are!" and the discriminated can also build their own self-confidence. Pride parades imo are for bringing the LGBT community together, and not for anything else.

    There is no need to be 'normal'. Everyone is abnormal in some way or another. You're kinder than the majority? You're abnormal. You're more violent than the majority? You're abnormal. There is no problem with homosexuality being 'abnormal' - heterosexuality is the majority and is therefore the norm. No problem with that. My only point about 'normality' was the positive effect of being around like people.

    you mentioned normal. not me.

    no. the "discriminated" do not need to come together and shout about how great they are.
    1) most people do not give a **** either way. you are pissing these people off massively with these ******* stupid parades which is actually having a negative effect.
    2) you are making a big deal of it. if you treat it like its normal, it will become accepted by more and more people. i mean i dont think really camp men will ever be accepted properly by general society, but the sexuality itself is nothing big, and should be treated as such really if you want peoples dislike of it to end.
    3) a tiny percentage of the country cares what sexuality you are. this tiny percentage is not going to change its mind just because you are having a parade. it is going to make this tiny percentage like them less, if anything.
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    (Original post by DJ AgnieszkaA)
    you mentioned normal. not me.
    I know, I used the wrong choicing of words as it seems to have been misunderstood. We are using 'normal' in different contexts, I feel. Whenever I said 'normal' replace it with 'around the majority who are like you' or something.

    (Original post by DJ AgnieszkaA)
    no. the "discriminated" do not need to come together and shout about how great they are.
    Ok I'm listening

    (Original post by DJ AgnieszkaA)
    1) most people do not give a **** either way. you are pissing these people off massively with these ******* stupid parades which is actually having a negative effect.
    I don't know much about how the gay community feels. I am just talking on the experiences of those I know who have been positively effected by this. These people have on the most part been rejected and discriminated against by family, friends and strangers. They need this. Take away pride parades, fine, but you must find a way to fill this need. A massive gathering is the only way I can think of at the moment. And how do you gather lots of people? Make it an event.

    (Original post by DJ AgnieszkaA)
    2) you are making a big deal of it. if you treat it like its normal, it will become accepted by more and more people. i mean i dont think really camp men will ever be accepted properly by general society, but the sexuality itself is nothing big, and should be treated as such really if you want peoples dislike of it to end.
    "If you treat it like its normal, it will become accepted by more and more people"? Isn't that what we should be wanting? Maybe that was a miswording, so I'll let it slide. Ignoring the problem won't let it go away. When it's not obvious to people that gay people are out there, they will not need to face their prejudices. Yes, a big deal is made of it until gay people become accepted.

    (Original post by DJ AgnieszkaA)
    3) a tiny percentage of the country cares what sexuality you are. this tiny percentage is not going to change its mind just because you are having a parade. it is going to make this tiny percentage like them less, if anything.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandsty.../relationships
    ~50% of the UK population think that homosexuals should not be allowed to get married or adopt children? 40% think the age of consent should be higher? 24% think gay sex should be made illegal.
    I think 50% is more than a 'tiny percentage'.
    And personally, I think the parade is for the people in it to come together, not to make an impression on the outside world anyway.
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    (Original post by lightburns)
    I know, I used the wrong choicing of words as it seems to have been misunderstood. We are using 'normal' in different contexts, I feel. Whenever I said 'normal' replace it with 'around the majority who are like you' or something.


    Ok I'm listening


    I don't know much about how the gay community feels. I am just talking on the experiences of those I know who have been positively effected by this. These people have on the most part been rejected and discriminated against by family, friends and strangers. They need this. Take away pride parades, fine, but you must find a way to fill this need. A massive gathering is the only way I can think of at the moment. And how do you gather lots of people? Make it an event.


    "If you treat it like its normal, it will become accepted by more and more people"? Isn't that what we should be wanting? Maybe that was a miswording, so I'll let it slide. Ignoring the problem won't let it go away. When it's not obvious to people that gay people are out there, they will not need to face their prejudices. Yes, a big deal is made of it until gay people become accepted.


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandsty.../relationships
    ~50% of the UK population think that homosexuals should not be allowed to get married or adopt children? 40% think the age of consent should be higher? 24% think gay sex should be made illegal.
    I think 50% is more than a 'tiny percentage'.
    And personally, I think the parade is for the people in it to come together, not to make an impression on the outside world anyway.
    The guy you're arguing with is really stupid. As compelled as you feel to argue with him, it's really not all that worth it.

    I think gay pride parades are odd, I'll say. There was one in my town a few months ago, and even though this was a parade celebrating my own sexuality, I really wanted to get away from it. All it really consisted of was people running around dressed as cherubs (i.e. wearing nothing but giant nappies) and I really just thought, "I do NOT want these people representing homosexuality."

    The parades are not a step forward for LGBT rights I would say as they do promote very negative stereotypes of LGBT people. I want people to see that most gay people are just regular and ordinary folk. How can the homosexual community hope to be treated better when it insists on doing things that isolate it from others? So, although the parades do bring together members of a marginalised group and make them feel more welcome, they may not achieve desirable aims. Surely social responsibility comes before fun?

    The only frame of refrence I have here is myself, but I certainly know that what I need as a homosexual individual is not a giant parade where people run around scantily-clad. What I'd really like is to be able to speak to other homosexual teeangers in person (some kind of high school based LGBT society), because they're the only ones who'd truly understand what I was going through, and (this is why I said in person) I'd like the ability to actually have some kind of relationship before I turn 18. We don't really have anything like that and it makes you feel really alone. So yes, have your colourful parades if you want them so badly, but please give us the support we actually need.
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    (Original post by innerhollow)
    I think gay pride parades are odd, I'll say. There was one in my town a few months ago, and even though this was a parade celebrating my own sexuality, I really wanted to get away from it. All it really consisted of was people running around dressed as cherubs (i.e. wearing nothing but giant nappies) and I really just thought, "I do NOT want these people representing homosexuality."
    Ok that is a little odd.

    (Original post by innerhollow)
    The parades are not a step forward for LGBT rights I would say as they do promote very negative stereotypes of LGBT people. I want people to see that most gay people are just regular and ordinary folk. How can the homosexual community hope to be treated better when it insists on doing things that isolate it from others? So, although the parades do bring together members of a marginalised group and make them feel more welcome, they may not achieve desirable aims. Surely social responsibility comes before fun?
    Hmm, I remember some fuss about how transgenderism shouldn't be represented by drag queens, which would be unfairly generalised to the rest of the T community by the general public. Maybe Pride Parades need to have more emphasis on not promoting these negative stereotypes? I do know what you mean there..

    (Original post by innerhollow)
    The only frame of refrence I have here is myself, but I certainly know that what I need as a homosexual individual is not a giant parade where people run around scantily-clad. What I'd really like is to be able to speak to other homosexual teeangers in person (some kind of high school based LGBT society), because they're the only ones who'd truly understand what I was going through, and (this is why I said in person) I'd like the ability to actually have some kind of relationship before I turn 18. We don't really have anything like that and it makes you feel really alone. So yes, have your colourful parades if you want them so badly, but please give us the support we actually need.
    You don't have smaller groups? QYN has meets often all over the country.
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    (Original post by innerhollow)
    Why? Most gay pride parades are something like that.
    Ok I've never watched a whole parade. I went to the two most recent London ones with QYN. We walked along all dressed normally, and around us there was a wide selection of people; a bunch of 'bears' line-dancing, a group from British Airways dressed in their uniform and a load of older guys in leather. I can't remember what else. Certainly didn't see guys running around in nappies lol!
    I did in 2008 see a couple of scantily dressed angels. But they were tastefully done.

    (Original post by innerhollow)
    They really should. The homosexual community's biggest priority above all others should be on integration. If the only time you can feel good about your sexuality is when you're with other queer people, there is something fundamentally wrong.
    For a lot of people, it's the only time when they are accepted. I should mention I'm from a trans background, not homosexual, which is why I am emphasising the point about family/friends/strangers not being accepting.

    (Original post by innerhollow)
    I just looked it up. There has only been one QYN meet in my city, and it was in 2007. There'd also have to be some way of ensuring anonymity. I just want to get to know other gay people. I don't know a single one.
    Ah... any of them anywhere near your city? I haven't been to a QYN meet for ages and ages, but when I did, I took ~1 hour of trains (maybe less) to get into London. Maybe there's meets within reach of you? And if there was, it would be further out and therefore the anonymity problem would be solved.
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    When a straight person talks about guys/girls/relationships they're making conversation. When a gay person does the same they are 'flaunting their sexuality and shoving it in peoples faces'

    Double standards much?
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    (Original post by lightburns)
    "If you treat it like its normal, it will become accepted by more and more people"? Isn't that what we should be wanting? Maybe that was a miswording, so I'll let it slide. Ignoring the problem won't let it go away. When it's not obvious to people that gay people are out there, they will not need to face their prejudices. Yes, a big deal is made of it until gay people become accepted.
    no, i mean what i said.
    having a big parade is not treating it as normal, therefore it will be treated as less normal by others
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    (Original post by IheartASOS)
    Now this got me thinking: why are some homosexual individuals inclined to be so blatant about their sexuality? It is widely recognised (obviously with the exception of homophobics, religious people etc) that heterosexuality and homosexuality are perfectly normal, however, I've yet to encounter a straight person who shouts about being straight. Also, why don't heterosexual people have a 'straight pride' festival?

    I can recognise that it's all centred around being proud of who you are etc, but by homosexuals highlighting their apparent difference, surely they're just making a 'rod for their own back' with regard to people who 'fear' them because they are different?
    Straight people are welcome to have a "Straight Pride" festival... see if I care. Straight people that shout about their straightness do exist. They overcompensate, especially around other men - bragging about their hundreds of conquests and how manly they are. In reality, their apparent machismo is often a cover for their repressed homosexuality, in my experience.
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    (Original post by dean91290)
    I agree I don't see why, just because some1 is gay they have to act like or even dress like a woman. Tht is totally unnecessary, and is probably the reason they have the piss taken out of them. They are the reason that most people are homophobic. They bring it on themselves.
    It is NEVER the fault of the person if someone abuses them for their gender presentation/perceived orientation. Ever.

    Why is it shameful for someone male acting less than macho?

    Interestingly, I know a lot of guys who claim to like straight-acting guys, and lower the 'straight acting' bar to whoever-they-fancy-as-long-as-they-aren't-quite-Graham-Norton...OK-except-that-guy-but-he's-an-exception...and-me-of-course! I think to some degree it's a bit 'well, I'm gay, but I'm not one of those really gay gays who everyone is mean about' thing.

    I did know a guy who always said he hated camp guys in his youth, and the only men he's ever fallen for are camp as ****, and he's completely smitten with his bf of nearish 2 years...


    (Original post by Invocation)
    I never got it either. Gay pride parades are as retarded as white pride parades.
    Because a bunch of people clinging together in a place where they are treated as the norm and any expression of gender or sexuality is free and ok and liberated is the same as a few of the majority ganging together and saying that they are more important than everyone else HOW?


    (Original post by usainlightning)
    I hate gay pride. I mean i'm ok with people being gay but it's not the ideal is it? Why on earth would you want to shout about being gay?
    It's one place where you can talk about your partner and KNOW noone will look at you funny. One place where you can act/dress however you like and noone will criticise you. You can be you, as much as you can, as much as you like.

    Why shouldn't you be able to shout about being gay? If you're not allowed to whisper it most of the time, why not have an event once a year where it's ok to shout?


    (Original post by DJ AgnieszkaA)
    agree with all this
    ooh look at me im gay and proud... STFU and get over it, everyone else has.
    shouting loudly about it just shows insecurity tbh
    Unfortunately, almost every LGBT person feels insecure. In this society, you never know when someone will take issue with who you are, if they were to know.

    I know people who've been put in hospital. I have had weird comments, had people stop being my friends, ask bizarre questions about my sex life, been criticised by family, felt unable to bring up my sexuality or all the campaigns work I run at work.

    It is not safe. I'd love to STFU. I can't get over something that is still happening.


    (Original post by lightburns)
    Hmm, I remember some fuss about how transgenderism shouldn't be represented by drag queens, which would be unfairly generalised to the rest of the T community by the general public.
    Hell, some drag queens wouldn't want you calling them trans, as I understand it.
    Remember that what people report and what people remember from Pride events is the outrageous stuff - never the 'regular looking' people.


    (Original post by lightburns)
    You don't have smaller groups? QYN has meets often all over the country.
    Queer Youth Network! <3
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    (Original post by innerhollow)
    Fair enough. All I can say is that the Gay Pride parades I've
    seen were far from tastefully done.
    I'm sure there were parts of the London ones that weren't tasteful either. I agree with you that it doesn't really set a good impression.

    (Original post by innerhollow)
    Yeah I know how difficult it is, mate. I just think our aim should be on making it so that LGBT people don't need to have a parade just to feel comfortable. That feeling of isolation is what we should be combatting. I mean, for homosexuals, we are drawing ever closer to this aim of integration; but I do understand that for trans there is still a huge distance to this goal. Still we need to push on towards it, and I don't think big flashy parades are the way forward. There are plenty of other ways for LGBT people to get together that don't involve inciting the scorn of the general public.
    Yes I agree that integration should be the main aim. And pride parades should not have a negative impact on this. I do think that a tastefully done parade helps people come together without having a negative impact, perhaps even a positive one. But I agree completely that integration into society and not needing a parade is much more important than getting a parade.

    (Original post by innerhollow)
    No, they're all in London basically, and I live up in Scotland so it's too far for me. But yeah, if one ever comes to Scotland again, I could get the train there, that's a good idea. I hope they're actually helpful though.
    Ahh I see, you're not in England. Loads are in London, then they've got some at the different areas of England. Are there any Scottish based groups rather than England based that would have meets near you? Sucks if they don't, and I must say, I would rather the funding for pride be spent on getting groups at more places if people can't find anywhere
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    (Original post by emmarainbow)
    Queer Youth Network! <3
    *stalks you* Aha found you on QYN. I knew I recognised the name 'emmarainbow'. (I go by an older username, so any stalking attempt of me will fail, muaha.)
 
 
 
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