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    Both are in danger of being single-issue parties because that's how they began. BNP are immigration and UKIP are the EU.

    Both have been around quite a while now though and have tried to develop an actual ideological stance; the BNP are old labour style socialists on economics and crazy authoritarians socially, whilst UKIP have tried to become quite libertarian, i.e. free-market and liberal. They've done a good job of being free-marketers, but not of being liberals.

    UKIP are also famous for being tougher than mainstream parties on immigration, which I suppose is the root of their comparisons to the BNP. Under Pearson this is even more true, because he represents the portion of the party that are just pissed off ultra-conservatives, rather than libertarians.
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    A party that hates human rights, not just the ECHR.

    At least according to the lovely leaflet I got through my door.
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    (Original post by thejonsmith)
    Which party?
    There's nothing under UKIP policy that can be construed as anti-human rights except for reforming the HRA 1998 for the purposes of deportation of fundamental, extremist Islamic ministers

    As I said, I believe they would have to suggest a realistic alternative for the Human Rights Act, some sort of Bill of Rights, or similar, safeguarding fundamental human rights such as the right to free speech etc
    It was a UKIP leaflet... I can take a picture of it if you really require it and my word is not enough.
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    (Original post by Moe Lester)
    Banning clothes is not libertarian /period/

    As much as I think that the Burqa is one of the stupidest, anti-modern, unfunctional, vile and sexist garments I have seen on British streets I wouldn't ban the damn thing. The state taking away an individuals right to wear what they want is not libertarian...it is statist. Frankly I don't think the government should be in the business of creating legislation (and wasting police time) to liberate women form wearing a curtain on their head. I cannot see how you can reconcile Libertarian thought with banning clothes without pissing over Libertarian principles, especially over slightly dubious claims of "liberating women".

    Exactly, i find it ******* hilarious that that many of the people calling for the burka to be banned are the same people who oppose ID cards on the grounds of 'erosion of civil liberites'...
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    (Original post by Barden)
    Exactly, i find it ******* hilarious that that many of the people calling for the burka to be banned are the same people who oppose ID cards on the grounds of 'erosion of civil liberites'...
    But you support postmen's rights to refuse to deliver BNP leaflets, I believe?

    If a woman wearing a burka has chosen to wear one of her own free will I wouldn't want to see her denied her choice, but in some situations the burkha really is not appropriate garb at all. I also think it would be naive to think that muslim girls are not conditioned to wear the burka (or niqab) from an early age. Is that what we want in Britain?
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    (Original post by Tamora)
    But you support postmen's rights to refuse to deliver BNP leaflets, I believe?

    I support each individual postman's right not to deliver the BNP leaflets, Royal Mail itself however is still duty-bound to deliver them.
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    (Original post by thejonsmith)
    Oh right.. so the postmen don't have to deliver them because it's their individual right to choose, yet Royal Mail still have to deliver them.. what if every postman decides he doesn't want to, what then?

    Then that is Royal Mail's problem isn't it.
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    (Original post by Barden)
    I support each individual postman's right not to deliver the BNP leaflets, Royal Mail itself however is still duty-bound to deliver them.
    What about the householder's right to receive every election address?
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    (Original post by Robert Paulson)
    A party that hates human rights, not just the ECHR.

    At least according to the lovely leaflet I got through my door.
    I'd like to see the leaflet. It's not that I don't believe you. It's a question of interpretation.
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    I don't recall UKIP having had a convicted nail bomber within their ranks in the recent past - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/781755.stm
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    (Original post by Tamora)
    What about the householder's right to receive every election address?

    Hence why I said Royal Mail are still duty-bound to deliver them. The onus should be on the company, not it's individual employees.
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    (Original post by Barden)
    Hence why I said Royal Mail are still duty-bound to deliver them. The onus should be on the company, not it's individual employees.
    How do they deliver them without postmen? No, sorry, postmen do not have the right to make judgements about the post.
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    Postman are paid to deliver the post regardless of who sent it. Even if the the post is from the BNP they must deliver it. It is not their right not to deliver it because they disagree with it. If so, I believe we should refuse to deliver post from the Labour party...

    I may work in a supermarket, I refuse to stack certain products...

    Its just pathetic. You are paid to work and you either work or get sacked. Simple.
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    If a postman refuses to deliver said leaflets, it's a matter purely for Royal Mail and the postman to sort out - I'd suspect there would be some breach of contract by the postman (by refusing to do his job). I fundamentally support his right to refuse, but then I also support Royal Mail's right to reprimand him for breach of contract.
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    As I understood it, postmen said they were afraid of the reaction from some in the ethnic minority communities. Shouldn't the police have been taking a stronger line, so that postmen can carry out their jobs and the Royal Mail can fulfill its contracts to deliver election addresses?

    In not doiing so, did they bow down to some in ethnic minority groups?

    :confused:
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    (Original post by Tamora)
    I'd like to see the leaflet. It's not that I don't believe you. It's a question of interpretation.
    http://i40.tinypic.com/xe1j6w.jpg

    See, now I would not classify the Human Rights Act as involving 'crazy human rights'. What exactly are they trying to say here? That humans right are crazy, or that the ones in the ECHR are? If the latter, I really do not see the reasoning behind that one too. In either case, it seems to be invoking a policy of 'most of the ECHR is crazy, therefore we will not introduce most human rights ourselves' since the ECHR is fundamentally all about human rights. You cannot get any more absolute then say, liberty and security in Article 5. I think this particular leaflet showcases the problem with the party and I'm sure there are similar ones out there.
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    in VERY simple terms, UKIP are essentially an old school tory party, with a heavy emphasis on pulling the UK out of the EU.
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    well i support the BNP However if there was not a BNP member running in my area i would vote UKIP instead and If there was no ukip i would vote tory.
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    (Original post by thejonsmith)


    Why?

    Do you view it as voting on some scale of extremity - you start by voting for the most radical first?

    There is no positive policy for the BNP, especially considering the racist allegations surrounding the party. Some are fairly well substantiated too - ie they recently got taken to court and had to repeal their whites only membership etc

    This pretty much summarises their ideals and Nick Griffin -
    Sorry but I disagree. After hours of searching I found a brilliant policy within the BNP manifesto

    "Reduce bureaucracy where possible". Its a great policy... but shamefully doesn't outweigh the others.
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    (Original post by thejonsmith)
    One unspecific policy, however

    Compare "reduce bureaucracy where possible" to UKIP's manifesto, where they actually intend to reduce bureaucracy, with specific examples such as (obviously) through losing influence from the EU and also it's their main initiative on the NHS - returning the overseeing of hospitals to medical professionals etc

    Likewise, putting professionals instead of politicians in positions such as Minister of Science could be inclined to show a reduction of bureaucracy

    It would be a good policy, if it were in any way substantiated
    They also want to rise the threshold for inheritance tax :rolleyes:

    But no, the context of what I wrote was meant to point out the lack of decent policies contained within the manifesto of the British National Party.
 
 
 
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